The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

A lottery system needs to be introduced for say, every team in the bottom 8.

Totally agree.
Nothing worse than feeling compromised as to whether your team should win or lose.
Can't be that hard surely?

 

[nikolasmia]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

as long as the team does not consist of perennial undedrperformers such as pettifer, simmons,bowden Brown

and cogs richo Kj dont get another game, I can live with winning with a team of kids. The only peron over 27 allowed toplay for the tigers should be cousins that is all.

Richo should also, start his pre-season now for next year

 

[Djevv]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Dunno with tanking. All Jade can really do is play the kids and do his best. You can't ask a guy in his position to deliberately throw games. The game, the club and anyone associated with it would be tarnished by blatant tanking. If you play the kids and win I have no issues - that is not a 'cheap'win, thats great experience for the players.

I KNOW we could use a priority pick, but I don't think we will get one, unless Jade throws games which I don't believe he will do. I tend to think there is more to it than cheats prospering, I love what Neil Craig said, he doesn't believe in the draft but in development. We simply need to pick up ALL our draftees and not trade for mediocre players from other clubs and then try to trade into the odd extra pick. Mind you if we get to R20 and we only have 4 wins, we should definitely tank!

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

What's a care takers role supposed to be? It should'nt be focused on cheap, meaningless wins that's for sure. I think we should have a look at some of the rookies also. Throw then to the wolves especially against teams like Melbourne, WCE, Freo, North Melbourne.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I love what Neil Craig said, he doesn't believe in the draft but in development.

Pretty simple isn't it.
The Cats and Sydney have been working to the same basic principle.
Take your picks at the draft table, trade if you must to adjust the balance of your side and put every iota of energy into developing the best possible practices, performance and integrity out of the players you have.
It's something called " culture '' and will always hold you in good stead when the *smile* hitting the fan.
I'll take it any day compared to rolling over and baring the arse to get hammered, because you can guarantee that taking the easy option is a much easier culture to develop than busting the proverbials at all costs.

 

[Tigerhart04]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Pretty simple isn't it.
The Cats and Sydney have been working to the same basic principle.
Take your picks at the draft table, trade if you must to adjust the balance of your side and put every iota of energy into developing the best possible practices, performance and integrity out of the players you have.
It's something called " culture '' and will always hold you in good stead when the sh!ts hitting the fan.
I'll take it any day compared to rolling over and baring the arse to get hammered, because you can guarantee that taking the easy option is a much easier culture to develop than busting the proverbials at all costs.

Gold Post Mods!! So eloquently put TM.

Every spare cent goes into development and if there's an extra 100 bucks left over from a dinner for Bowden or selling a dozen of last year's shorts through the shop, then that goes into development. That is the only way forward. Development it is that simple.

 

[Al Bundy]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

A lottery system needs to be introduced for say, every team in the bottom 8.

There were heavy discussions in the media & on this site but Dumbmetriou refused to listen.

It is the only solution to tanking imo.

The priority pick should be after 3 seasons.

 

[Phar Ace]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Leave the draft the way it now for the next 10 years at least. Win, don't think about tanks - anything else is foolish in a team sport.

 

[Streak]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

A lot of people seem to make this very interesting connection between playing young players and losing games. That is, tanking by putting in a team of young players who will not win.

To me, this seems like very flawed logic. If you want to tank, you keep in the players who have managed to cause the unravelling in the first place. You keep in your older duds. If you start playing the kids, they seem to do better and will win a few games, certainly enough to blow you out of a priority pick. We saw it the other night, and as a number of people keep saying, we are likely to win between 6-8 games. This will happen if you keep playing the young guys.

 

[U2Tigers]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Lets learn to win.

keep the wins coming -

we've forgotton how to win close ones - tanking won't teach them to win the hard gamers.

 

[Streak]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

And another thing about tanking. Where do you draw the line? When do you actually decide you have enough talent to start taking things seriously again?

Personally, I think the Lions are really showing how you should do things. Brisbane are doing really well at the moment. Sure, they had a rub of the green go their way being able to snare Jonathon Brown under the F/S, but they have made the most of their early picks, and I cannot recall them getting a priority for some time.

Voss clearly expects his players to peform at a certain level regardless of the situation, and they are doing that. You can't help but think that that type of culture will serve them well in the future.

 

[hellenictiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

The lottery for the bottom 8 is a good system. Atleast the team thats last in line for the 1st pick is playing to win a finals spot. It will get rid of all the crap that goes on with this bottoming out strategy that clearly doesnt work all the time.

We've bottomed out enough and what we need it to win every game we can, its sport and Carlton are the type of club that lower themselves to tanking, I dont want that to be the case at Richmond.

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

And another thing about tanking. Where do you draw the line? When do you actually decide you have enough talent to start taking things seriously again?

when you start beating decent opposition in big games.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

when you start beating decent opposition in big games.

well put harry, must say i was waiting to see an indepth post from you on this subject cause i know you and claw have long advocated it..

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Wow i must admit when i started the thread i thought there would be a bit of a land slide towards "early draft pics" poll but the need to win late games has gathered some momentum from some quarters and its almost running at 50% each...

 

[Azza]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Neither.

Prioritise overturning the inconsistencies in selections we've had under Wallace and getting a realistic idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the list for the future. Don't worry about losing games, but still try to find the best combinations we have for the future and identify the most pressing holes.

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

well put harry, must say i was waiting to see an indepth post from you on this subject cause i know you and claw have long advocated it..

mate I've worn out my fingertips - refer to the game day thread. Some people just can't see past their nose.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Neither.

Prioritise overturning the inconsistencies in selections we've had under Wallace and getting a realistic idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the list for the future. Don't worry about losing games, but still try to find the best combinations we have for the future and identify the most pressing holes.

an appreciated different look at things Azza, i think we will difinitely look at the list more so than TW (what a disaster he was) and find the right balance BUT i do believe we need more talent coming through and this being the last draft to pick up some early draft pics we need to take advantage of it cause in the next 3 yrs u can forget about it....

 

[seven]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Pretty simple isn't it.
The Cats and Sydney have been working to the same basic principle.
Take your picks at the draft table, trade if you must to adjust the balance of your side and put every iota of energy into developing the best possible practices, performance and integrity out of the players you have.
It's something called " culture '' and will always hold you in good stead when the sh!ts hitting the fan.
I'll take it any day compared to rolling over and baring the arse to get hammered, because you can guarantee that taking the easy option is a much easier culture to develop than busting the proverbials at all costs.

Yep. Geelong would be a good model for us. Instead of looking at bottoming out they focused on player development and list management.

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Neither.

Prioritise overturning the inconsistencies in selections we've had under Wallace and getting a realistic idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the list for the future. Don't worry about losing games, but still try to find the best combinations we have for the future and identify the most pressing holes.

as part of what needs to be done we have said this ad nauseum. but it is only part of what has to happen. when we identify the most pressing holes what is the best way to fix them.

i often ask people where they think the list is at and nearly always the question is avoided.

we have a list to build it may not be a total rebuild but it is damn close. the simple question is what is the best way to do it.