The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Claw if you read my whole post yo uwould see that I did mention that what I stated was no different to now. I jsut dont see how it is making the culture any better by tanking, the off field seems to by all accounts be making inroads and this is the firstr step. Onfield should start to follow after that. No guarantees of course.

And I dont think our list is substantially worse than most and I would say it is better than Melbourne's and Kangaroos based on my observations the players arent palying well and I put that down to the culture. Difference of opinion but im sticking with it.

are we chasing winning culture then shawry. ive long argued winning culture comes from firstly getting the cattle the culture will take care of itself.

this is exactly what has happened at our club.

look im pissed between my sons soccer team and the drunken pommy dads who can drink me under the table and richmond today who just make want to get drunker i cant be bothered getting to serious atm, i will repeat though give me 3 or 4 yrs at the bottom of the ladder with pps and i could build a top 4 side that may or may not play in a grand final.

 

[TigerForce]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

look im p!ssed between my sons soccer team and the drunken pommy dads who can drink me under the table and richmond today who just make want to get drunker

Who scared him out of footy claw.....you or Richmond? ;D

 

[strachanie19]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

now less than 1% from pick 2 in the draft...damn those 3 last qtr goals!!!!

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

OK Claw, I sense from that last post that you consider a carefully orchestrated selection table for three to four years will guarantee the club a top 4 spot for many years to follow, but may not deliver a premiership? Is that were you stand now rather than trying to lose all games?

i dont believe ive ever said anything different.tank bottoming out call it what you will but there is only one process that will have this club go past all others.

 

[Disco08]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

now less than 1% from pick 2 in the draft...damn those 3 last qtr goals!!!!

It's pick 3 mate. Melbourne's getting 1 & 2.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

After tonight I would rather not win at all. We are in desperate need of class. We not only need a KP Forward but 2 elite midfielders. I think Deledio is a passenger. Wallet even admits he will never be elite.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Bring on Picks 3,18,19 and whatever we can get for anyone else bar Cotchin.

 

[Rosy]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Wallet even admits he will never be elite.

Wow that's bringing out the heavy artillery doggy. :hihi

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

It's pick 3 mate. Melbourne's getting 1 & 2.

The way Melbourne are playing at best it's going to be pick 3. The WCE appear not to be tanking, which is good news as it reduces the risk of us being trumped by a prioirty pick. I am worrying about Freo now though

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Who scared him out of footy claw.....you or Richmond? ;D

lol he plays footy for his school thru the week and soccer on the weekends. he goes okay at both.
my eldest one played footy and got told by myself he was no good after awhile of course. smartest thing i ever said to him. it panned out he played footy only to please me.

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

It's pick 3 mate. Melbourne's getting 1 & 2.

pppfffttt we will see.

 

[Disco08]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

You don't think Melbourne's getting 1 & 2 or you don't think we'll get 3?

 

[TigerForce]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

my eldest one played footy and got told by myself he was no good after awhile of course. smartest thing i ever said to him. it panned out he played footy only to please me.

Heh heh heh.....the famous 'dud' word must've slipped ;D

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

lol that is exactly what happens now. we are a joke and atm come draft day the majority of draftees are hoping they dont go to richmond, prolonged failure with no real signs of improvement is what will lose the cotchins and deledios to other clubs.not a few yrs of low finishes with pps.
again what is better 4 wins and a pp and first crack each round or the 5 or maybe 6 wins we will end up with. what will 2 extra wins this yr prove or bring to the club. wins that will be against middling to struggling teams.

whos going to improve the most. melb who is in a similar boat to us in fact are better of than us imo as far as list goes. or us. melb get picks 1 and 2 we get pick 8. what will happen is what always happens melb will go past us to finals while we manage a few meaningless wins to 9th and then drop back down for the process to happen again wth another team who dropped below us while we finished 9th to go past us.look at the history learn from it. we are downwe are crap and while we are down we have to maximise our draft picks. we have to do better than all other teams or we will continue to do exactly what we have done for the last 23 yrs.

the non tankers have had 23 yrs and look where its got us time to give the tank a go because for sure and certain it cannot get anyworse than it is now or has been.

im just another internet jock like everyone else but in all honesty given 3 or 4 yrs of bottoming out i would guarantee a top 4 side at the end of it., with proper appraisal and rating of current players full use of the rookie system as many early picks in conjuncture with as many overall picks being used as possible.

finally we dont need to tank for probably 90% of our games we arent good enough to win them anyway. but there is less than a handful of games where we should be aiming to protect the pp.in these games do we send players out with instructions to lose of course not. this just doesnt happen. but we select a side with the onus on youth development experimentation as the priority.

ive already stated as a club we should be going all out for a win over stkilda today knowing full well it is unlikely to happen. when we play nm rnd 16 we prioritise youth rest say a cousins we give kids a lot of game time we try players in different positions. and we lose because the structure and experience arent quite right.


you talk as if we have a chance of winning most games reality is we dont. reality is we have more chance of getting worse in the short term than improving.

ultimate failure eh the closest thing i have seen to ultimate failure is the rfc in the draft period. for 23 yrs we have failed to use the system properly and you go on about deliberately tanking for 3 yrs as being to risky unbelievable.

if we had bottomed out and took our medicine for three or 4 yrs as we should have under wallace we would now be looking forward to a bright future. the imminent onset of finals and have prospective coaches clamouring to get the gig. instead like our finishes and our approach we are mediocre look like remaining mediocre for at least another 3 or 4 yrs and will have to work damn hard to encourage a decent coach to the club. failure to bottom out has cost this and more. continual mediocrity costs us memberships we dont get sponsorships players want to leave because they cant see anything changing or the club doing anything different to what it has always done. you talk about all these things happening if we tank mate they are happening now. the club is on a merry go rund and there is only one way to get of but that means accepting short term pain. we get the pain now but just dont accept it or do anything to change it.

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[TigerForce]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Even though it's Melbourne's 1st or 2nd pick, we must TRY and TRADE 2 or 3 half-fulls to Melbourne for Scully as they'd be looking for some experienced players to start winning some games next year.

Give it a go as there is nothing to lose.

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

You don't think Melbourne's getting 1 & 2 or you don't think we'll get 3?

if we are smart melb are no cert to get 1 and 2. imo one thing for sure they will be targeting our game as a win.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Wow that's bringing out the heavy artillery doggy. :hihi

exactly wallet couldnt coach hiimself out of a paper bag, does he not remember that he was the coach for 4.5 yrs and was responsible for the nurturing of these players, i was sucked in badly by this imposter....2004 we got the spoon shouldve then spent 05 and 06 at the bottom and cleaned up with players like gibbs, murphy, ellis, pendlebury etc in the top 5 of those 2 drafts...Ok so wallet tried to show the faithful that we dont need to bottom out and decided against bottoming out, we well most of us went with it as we were seduced BUT 3 yrs on (2007) we end up being in the same position as 2004, now if he learnt anything from history you dont repeat the same mistake twice, in essence he shouldve taken the bit between the teeth and bottomed out so in 08 and 09" we wouldve picked up players of this ilk either Natanui, Watts or Rich and this year Scully, Butcher or trengove, gun midfielders, gun talls...

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

If Deledio does in fact leave this season because he thinks we are going nowhere, it kind of defeat the purpose of tanking doesn't it.

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

If Deledio does in fact leave this season because he thinks we are going nowhere, it kind of defeat the purpose of tanking doesn't it.

ask yourself why he would think we are going nowhere. he wouldnt think that if if a scully and butcher were coming to the club he wouldnt think it if watts and rich were here already.
if deledio gores it will be for one reason he can see the same old same old with no change on the horizon.
. if he goes so be it not much we can do about it anyway. all it means is we should change what we have done and what has forced deledio away and do something we have never done bottom out properly and tank in the process maximising the draft with literally the best kids in the country..

 

[Ocker]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Given all this talk about "why has Worsfold been reappointed" ... I'm guessing Harry & Claw are happy to give me odds on whether West Coast will win any more than 1 game for the rest of the season? Money where your mouth is boys. You reckon West Coast are tanking? I'll take any odds you give me...



This is of course after Claw sobers up from celebrating his beloved knocking off the Hawks tonight

Ahhh...Claw & Harry...what your 'pro-woosha' logic telling you now?
Smart man that Woosha - or maybe he's stupid coz he didn't heed the expert advise of tweedle dee & tweedle dumb.

THE SKY IS FALLING BOYS.

What's the next pearls of wisdom to be uttered eh?