The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Or eat that said cake now then suffer the hideous persistant and chronic indegestion that only a list crammed full of deficient, duds can provide.

hmm well said shoould of thought of it myself.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

that wasnt the question, the question is would u want the melbourne in this instance to win late games and to miss out on pics 1 and 2, for richmond late wins would see us miss out on pic 3 and a priority pic 18 and with that also miss out on pic 19...

So would u rather pic 7 or 8 and in the 2nd round pic 25 or 26 instead of pics 3, 18 and 19....are we going to make the 8 this year i dont think so so lets embrace the draft and utilise this last oppurtunity to enhance our list before GC and WS clean up, is it so hard for people to fathom.

Yes it is for some of the ferals on here. They're the ones who probably go to the games and yell "GO WICHMEN" late in the season praying for a meaningless win.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

theres nothing that isnt positive in your stance on this issue. its perception you have an outlook and system that enables the club to have the best possible chance of improving its playing stocks and ultimately its chances of playing finals. nothing negative about that at all you have a feel for what has to be done it may be a recognition of where the list is at but its a positive that you see what is wrong and you see we need to go thru some pain. if the club never comes to terms with this it will never improve how big a negative is that.

the cost of not realising where we are at and what needs to be done has cost us enormously, no more. we cant keep on making the same mistake over and over.
how long should wallace have been allowed to try and make finals with the oldies one yr two yrs surely no more than two.
at the end of 06 the list overhaul should have begun and it should have continued thru to this day.

there was no excuse or justification for wallace and just as importantly the footy dept and the board to continue down the path wallace set out on. someone at that club had to draw a line in the sand and say no its time to adopt a full on rebuild strategy and go into it.
its never happened.
even if you gave wallace 3 yrs to make finals with the oldies a spoon at the end of 07 surely meant someone would say enough.

they are all guilty they all need to put their hand up and say yep i got this wrong and by crickey im going to learn from it and never allow it to happen again. the question i have to ask is this happenenig.

if we had gone into tank at the end of 07 and prioritised kids we would be looking at 2007 picks 2 18 19 35 51 67 psd pick 2. 6 rookies.
with bottoming out a priority 2008 would have gone picks 1 3 19 35 51 67 psd pick 2 or 3.. with what has happened this yr we should have been aiming at pick 1 pick 4 20 36 52 68 and psd pick 2.
we have had the opportunity but refused to go thru the process. we continue to refuse to go thru the process.

if we had bit the bullet since 2007 we could have had something like this 2 cotchin, 18 rance, 19 selwood. 1 watts 3 rich 19 post and this yr 1, 4, 20, if as a club we had the honesty balls and integrity to call it as it is and the fortitude to do the hard yards we would be on the way to sustained finals finals exploits in two yrs time. instead we now have to go thru another rebuild in an ad hock way and hope rather than plan we get very good or elite players. just look at the cost not bottoming out has killed us not utiliseing the system properly has killed us.
if people want sustained success and that does not neccesarily mean a premiership they had better get their heads around the way the current system works. we cant have our cake and eat it to. go without the cake and you will get something better down the track. eat it now and stay mired in mediocrity.

Well the way you put it clawman it sounds right, yes it is an outlook i have on the list and what needs to be done and in all honesty no one really wants to see losses but it’s the only way of improving the list with “quality early pics”, that’s the realisation claw that’s what i feel needs to be done and if the club is searching for meaningless late season wins well that is being negligent to the highest order...

Late 2008 we won 8 out of 11 and everyone including me was saying we’ll make the 8 this year and wins provide the youngsters with a winning culture well where are we now....the now we’re at is to complete what we didn’t complete in 05 or 08 after finishing last and adding more top 20 players to the like of lids, bling, polo, Rance and Cotchin.
We are presented once again with an opportunity of adding another 3 top 20 pics surely the club recognizes this.

Pick 19 was a mitigated disaster, pic 35 on Mitch Morton was and still is a very good move by the club as he can play tall, is extremely skilful and as we know loves a goal he should kick around the 45+ goals this year.
2008 to have pics 1, 3 and 19, 35 etc well lets just say a Naitanui and Rich or Hartlett would be at punt road, add that with this years pics as u said claw being pic 1, 4, 20, 36 etc we would’ve been bristling with young talent.
When u look at some of those names in 08’ as ive noted above plus utilising pic 19 in 07’ on A.Selwood or Pears and also the ones they’re talking about now 09’ like scully and butcher finals would be talked about with more confidence than an “if” we make finals.

The bottom line is i want sustained success, meaning multiple finals appearances and hopefully what we all crave a grand final, we talk about geelong not needing early pics well they had good management and good father sons but times have changed since 7 or 8 yrs ago, in 5 yrs time when most of their players are near 30 or on the wrong side of 30 where will their next batch of “quality stars” come from, the AFL rewards sides who finish down the bottom with the opportunity to rebuild there lists with the best young talent in the land, so in essence you need to get your hands on the best young talent and by that you’re more than half way there, late picks and rookies they are the cream on top but multiple early pics and priority pics if ur lucky enough to get them are paramount and make the job a hell of a lot easier in your drafting strategies.

 

[timYCW#7]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Those who don't want us to win will still end up barracking for us on a weekend regardless.

 

[josey]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

[

even if you gave wallace 3 yrs to make finals with the oldies a spoon at the end of 07 surely meant someone would say enough.

they are all guilty they all need to put their hand up and say yep i got this wrong and by crickey im going to learn from it and never allow it to happen again. the question i have to ask is this happenenig.

if we had gone into tank at the end of 07 and prioritised kids we would be looking at 2007 picks 2 18 19 35 51 67 psd pick 2. 6 rookies.
with bottoming out a priority 2008 would have gone picks 1 3 19 35 51 67 psd pick 2 or 3.. with what has happened this yr we should have been aiming at pick 1 pick 4 20 36 52 68 and psd pick 2.
we have had the opportunity but refused to go thru the process. we continue to refuse to go thru the process.

if we had bit the bullet since 2007 we could have had something like this 2 cotchin, 18 rance, 19 selwood. 1 watts 3 rich 19 post and this yr 1, 4, 20, if as a club we had the honesty balls and integrity to call it as it is and the fortitude to do the hard yards we would be on the way to sustained finals finals exploits in two yrs time. instead we now have to go thru another rebuild in an ad hock way and hope rather than plan we get very good or elite players. just look at the cost not bottoming out has killed us not utiliseing the system properly has killed us.
if people want sustained success and that does not neccesarily mean a premiership they had better get their heads around the way the current system works. we cant have our cake and eat it to. go without the cake and you will get something better down the track. eat it now and stay mired in mediocrity.

You are absolutely right Claw.

After ending with the spoon in 07, the direction should have changed.

Once again we allowed the coach to dictate the direction of the club through list management.
As you and many others have stated it highlights the need to get this right now. There must be a separation between the coching staff and list management.

If nothing else the last 2 years highlights the need to getting the process right when selecting a coach.

Someone who is honest with himself would be a good start.

 

[Willo]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Claw, have you got a new typist??

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Those who don't want us to win will still end up barracking for us on a weekend regardless.

when ur there ur natural instincts take over and yes ur their barracking for your team but it is a different feeling because if the other team is kicking away, the opposite feeling comes to the fore, ahh better draft pics....even a close finish if u go down by 5 pts, u go away with a good efffort feeling and knowing early draft pics on still on the cards, a double win actually without the 4 pts...

 

[the claw]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Claw, have you got a new typist??

LOL, I should be so lucky.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

LOL, I should be so lucky.

the amount of long posts you do clawman ul need someone to proof read them first before they get posted....

 

[Djevv]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

The head says the picks, the heart the wins.

 

[TIGEREXTRA]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins


The picks don't mean much when you constantly pick the poorer selection as richmond always does.

So what ever......

 

[tigers_of_old_1980]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

for me I see 7 more wins with the others a 50/50 chance. I prefer we go for it & build a winning culture.

Continue to play the kids and build their belief !

Good post. Geelong got to the top without having to resort to "list management" if I am correct, I believe that this is the way to go because high picks dont always guarantee they will turn into elite footballers.

 

[Baloo]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Good post. Geelong got to the top without having to resort to "list management" if I am correct, I believe that this is the way to go because high picks dont always guarantee they will turn into elite footballers.

Good breeding helped them a fair bit though

 

[TygerTyger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I refuse to vote - the fact that we are even having this discussion is proof that something is seriously, fundamentally wrong with current drafting system that needs immediate attention right now. The AFL are happy to tinker with the rules of the game, then right now, they should announce that this year - the draft should be a lottery (bottom half get first selections in a random order, then the next 8 get the next set in random order an so on).

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

To the 60% who voted for late season meaningless wins I've got 2 words for you.

Cotchin and Deledio.

I'm sure all of you get excited over these 2 and see them as the core of our revival. They are without doubt our 2 most talented and important players. Where were they recruited you ask?

Cotchin and Deledio show that it's pretty hard to stuff up really early picks, even for Richmond. It's the picks from 5-9 that Richmond can completely stuff up, which is exactly where the anti-tankers want us to be placed come draft day.

Winning culture - yeah right.

 

[Tigerbob]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Late season meaningless wins are the reason we are in this mess.

We have not developed any winning culture from it before, why now?

Geez, 60% hey, shows why the majority isn't always right.......

I am with Harry, Brett Deledio and Trent Cotchin are our two best players coming through. They didn't arrive at our doorstep through that winning culture.

Winning culture pfffft.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Winning culture pfffft.

Where have all those crowing about 8 out of the last 11 gone to?

When other teams put their cue back in the rack, late season wins clearly does not equate to creating a winning culture.

Use the system. We need all the help we can get this year.

 

[Baloo]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Where have all those crowing about 8 out of the last 11 gone to?

We've all taken hypnosis....

 

[Ocker]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

To the 60% who voted for late season meaningless wins I've got 2 words for you.

Cotchin and Deledio.

I'm sure all of you get excited over these 2 and see them as the core of our revival. They are without doubt our 2 most talented and important players. Where were they recruited you ask?

Cotchin and Deledio show that it's pretty hard to stuff up really early picks, even for Richmond. It's the picks from 5-9 that Richmond can completely stuff up, which is exactly where the anti-tankers want us to be placed come draft day.

Winning culture - yeah right.

What pick was J.Selwood?...he goes O.K.

 

[Tigerbob]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

What pick was J.Selwood?...he goes O.K.

Pick 7 and he wasn't drafted by Richmond.