Tambling (merged)

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Does the B & F voting clearly suggest that does it?

Yep.

How do Pro-stats judge how well a player nullifies his opponent? Also how to they take into account the quality of the opponent they play on?

Getting tagged by Cameron Ling, or tagging Gary Ablett or Luke Hodge is decidely harder than getting Simon Hogan or Rick Ladson at those respective clubs. How much pro-stats take that into account?

I'm sure one day they'll have an opponent factor or something similar. If you can see it you can account for it after all.

Right now though I don't think those things are taken into account. That doesn't change the fact that these ratings are generally very accurate as I said.

If you looked at our setup throughout the year it is normally a 7 man defence actually.

You also cannot bank on your starting players getting 22 games a year. There will be plenty of opportunity for others to press there claims in the back half throughout next season.

& Dont forget Connors is only one indiscretion away from getting the arse & still has plenty to do to round out his game to be a lock.

Fair enough. I guess only time will tell if the string of great games he played as an attacking mid last year were flukes or not.

I didn't get to watch as much this year as I usually do but I honestly don't remember us playing the LMID all that often.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Yep.

So Kingy finished 9th overall.

Clutching at straws to suggest he was ahead of Chimp & Martin. There is nothing between them at all even on a per game voting. If you factor when Cuz got injured during a game & then played with that injury in the last it will bring him up alongside Jake as well.

& To be fair to Kingy he was also just about our best player over the last 6-8 weeks so the B & F results are rightly rewarding him for those performances.

I'm sure one day they'll have an opponent factor or something similar. If you can see it you can account for it after all.

Thought so, BTW leysy's not totally against them. Just believes that they far from tell the whole story. Will certainly give them more credence if they do the above, though not sure how they will be able to.

I didn't get to watch as much this year as I usually do but I honestly don't remember us playing the LMID all that often.

Not always but we certainly have a man back more often than not. This is a flow on from the Hawthorn model who near always do.

Lids, Moore & Connors played that LMID role the most, though floated through as well.

Earlier in the year it was Lids, when other clubs started putting more time into him it changed to Moore quite a bit & laterly Connors.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

So Kingy finished 9th overall.

Clutching at straws to suggest he was ahead of Chimp & Martin.

Unless you factor in games played the results are meaningless. Come on Leysy, that's pretty basic.

There is nothing between them at all even on a per game voting. If you factor when ot injured during a game & then played with that injury in the last it will bring him up alongside Jake as well.

Now you're clutching at straws to try and rationalise the coaches rating King above Cotchin, Martin and Cousins based on all the games they played this year.

& To be fair to Kingy he was also just about our best player over the last 6 weeks so the B & F results are rightly rewarding him for those performances.

I wouldn't say he was our best but he was very good, which brings us back to the original point I made to Punx about great games skewing results in smaller samples. No one could possibly say that, based on their entire seasons, King was better than Cotchin. The stats certainly don't yet the B&F results suggest otherwise.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Leysy posted that last one before acceptances so have added more than what you probably saw Disco.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

lol at before acceptances Leysy. No worries.

Thought so, BTW leysy's not totally against them. Just believes that they far from tell the whole story. Will certainly give them more credence if they do the above, though not sure how they will be able to.

Raw stats certainly don't tell anywhere near the full story, but the more advanced stats and ratings these days are getting much closer IMO.

In baseball they weight performances by the quality of opponents although the dynamics of AFL might make this somewhat problematic, especially for midfielders.

Fair enough on the LMID, like I said, I didn't see as much as I usually do and wasn't paying that much attention to it.

 

[D85]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

this thread = :brickwall

 

[RICHO_12]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Why do we automatically put Bling in the back half. Clearly he is nota defender. That was Wallets plant for him. He was drafted midfielder and will better suit a roaming hff role like Varcoe, he has the pace and
like most indegineous plays better without having to be accountable for 1 man. He showed how good his frontal pressure was last season. Hopefully the surgery will get the best out of him!

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Fair enough. I guess only time will tell if the string of great games he played as an attacking mid last year were flukes or not.

I think that's a slight exaggeration Disco. If his best football was as a high half forward and he played a string of great games I would think he would have contributed significantly to goals. In terms of Goals Contributed he sits outside the Top 100 in the averages for the 2009 year. The 100th player was Brad fisher at 1.6 goals per game contributed (the total of goals kicked individually + goal assists). if he played a string of "great" games as a high half forward I would presume he would sit a little higher than 1.05 goals per game contributed. Players such as Skipworth (1.8), Moss (1.9), Lockyer (2.0), Byrnes (1.9), Varcoe (2.2), Hill (2.3) all almost double his GC output. Richie had 23 goals contributed that year. Maybe he played further up the ground than you think and didn't perform that half-forward role as much or as well as you think?
Personally think it is clear his best football has been in defence and I hope he gets his chance there.

Why do we automatically put Bling in the back half. Clearly he is nota defender. That was Wallets plant for him. He was drafted midfielder and will better suit a roaming hff role like Varcoe, he has the pace and
like most indegineous plays better without having to be accountable for 1 man. He showed how good his frontal pressure was last season. Hopefully the surgery will get the best out of him!

McLeod, Wirrpanda, Pickett, Harbrow, Johncock, Wanganeen - how many more fantastic indigenous defenders do you want?

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

I think that's a slight exaggeration Disco. If his best football was as a high half forward and he played a string of great games I would think he would have contributed significantly to goals.

His best football wasn't as a high half forward though BCL. He was lining up and immediately joining the onballers. His stats (specifically ball gets/contested possessions/rebound 50's) reflect that very well. His scoring assist/inside 50 results were very good as well, showing he delivered the ball into 50 far more often than getting into scoring positions himself. Of course all this was fairly obvious from just watching the games too.

 

[RICHO_12]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

McLeod, Wirrpanda, Pickett, Harbrow, Johncock, Wanganeen - how many more fantastic indigenous defenders do you want?

YeaH great-champion players none play on the opposition key small and usually are tagged. We have lids, Connors Newman already playin that and need a stopper. Bling does not have the thumpin kick or the agility to manouver out of the backline. I think he would be better with the game coming to himmin an improved tigers outfit on the high hff

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

or the agility to manouver out of the backline.

Disagree with that. Showed it plenty in 2009.

 

[RICHO_12]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

O he has ....... Some agility and good speed in open space. What he also has showed us is a tendency to run into tackles and directly at the opposition

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Agree with that dude. When we had no structure at all and Wallet tried him in the backline his instructions were clearly to break lines wherever possible and he was charging straight into trouble fairly often.

 

[btoz_01]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

O he has ....... Some agility and good speed in open space. What he also has showed us is a tendency to run into tackles and directly at the opposition

Agree... Amblings evasive skills are very limited. But hed be a great pick up for GC ;D

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

YeaH great-champion players none play on the opposition key small and usually are tagged. We have lids, Connors Newman already playin that and need a stopper. Bling does not have the thumpin kick or the agility to manouver out of the backline. I think he would be better with the game coming to himmin an improved tigers outfit on the high hff

How many smalls are there in a forward line? You don't think Wirrpanda, Johncock, Wanganeen played on the best small forward? You obviously weren't watching. Bling doesn't have agility? Jeez, you should have stopped at "yeah great champion players".

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

If you think I'm too vocal in this thread and can't believe I'm still discussing it, why not just ignore me?

Hard to ignore you when every second post is yours.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Why do we automatically put Bling in the back half. Clearly he is nota defender. That was Wallets plant for him. He was drafted midfielder and will better suit a roaming hff role like Varcoe, he has the pace and like most indegineous plays better without having to be accountable for 1 man. He showed how good his frontal pressure was last season. Hopefully the surgery will get the best out of him!

If we're going to pigeon-hole aborignals then most also have unbelievable goal sense. Tambling has no goal sense whatsoever. You don't make it as a forward unless you have excellent goal sense today. Making something out of nothing. Your game needs to be very rounded to be successful. I see Tambling as more of a workhorse, he doesnt have great evasive skills in tight, really needs to see things unfold in front of him which is why I can only seem him making it as a backman. He's always looked alot more comfortable playing back to me and he can use his pace to break the lines. Didn't Hardwick already earmark him to take on this role towards the end of the season when he was dropped?

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Hard to ignore you when every second post is yours.

:hihi

 

[hopper]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

If we're going to pigeon-hole aborignals plumbers then most also have unbelievable goal sense bank accounts. Tambling King has no goal sense whatsoever. You don't make it as a forward unless you have excellent goal sense today. Making something out of nothing. Your game needs to be very rounded to be successful. I see Tambling King as more of a workhorse, he doesnt have great evasive skills in tight, really needs to see things unfold in front of him which is why I can only seem him making it as a backman. He's always looked alot more comfortable playing back to me and he can use his pace to break the lines. Didn't Hardwick already earmark him to take on this role towards the end start of the season when before he was dropped?

Yeah ... maybe. But going back 12 months could we not have written exactly the same post as above?
(i'm taking the mickey with the first sentence, ok)

 

[goose]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Must trade this year - is a resonable player but not what we need.