Tambling (merged)

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

So his hip is the reason he provided nothing for 3/4 of a season? When did he do his hips....round 1? If they were so bad why did he play 13 senior games? Because he had surgery at the end of the year does it mean he had the injury for the whole year, or did he get it just prior....he had 30+ touches in the 2s the week before.

Doesn't make much sense to me. Why play a guy who is not contributing to the side if he is injured?

Players have end of season surgery all the time....doesn't mean they played the entire season with that injury...

Provided nothing? He played essentially the same position Nahas, King and Nason did for parts of the year and averaged the same amount of touches as they did and had more effective tackles and 1%ers than any of them. I know he was ordinary but lets not exaggerate too much.

According to KFCTiger they knew about his problems for a couple of months. Why they played him instead of getting the surgery immediately I don't know.

That's because he's just an average player. Half a good season in a whole career.

His 2009 season was very good as a whole. You don't have to play 22 great games to call it a good season Jimmy. His 2008 was also pretty good (statistically as good as Edwards' season this year and look at the general praise he's getting for it) and his first 3 years were as good or better than 80% of players of those respective ages.

Will always be limited with his lack of football IQ. His skills are technically okay, just always manages to pick the wrong option. Never seen a player so dumb on the field.

What a load of rubbish, seriously. Do you want me to show some stats to prove how wrong you are or do you just want to go straight to saying "stats are meaningless" and agreeing to disagree?

 

[Barnzy]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

It's not worth arguing with you over it because when it comes to Tambling you're so biased it's not funny. The fact you still defend him against all and sundry says it all. If you can't see what others do now in regards to him then you never will.

As MB says, a good ordinary footballer and will never be nothing more. His lack of talent and work ethic won't allow it. I expect him to either get phased out over the coming years or stay as a fringe type player.

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Provided nothing? He played essentially the same position Nahas, King and Nason did for parts of the year and averaged the same amount of touches as they did and had more effective tackles and 1%ers than any of them. I know he was ordinary but lets not exaggerate too much.

Well judging by B&F voting the coaching staff rated what Nason and King did this year much higher than they did Tambling. In fact, pretty much everyone was rated higher than Tambling. Nahas...meh.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

B&F results are one way of looking at form, stats are another. The odd great game can skew overall results dramatically though given the voting method.

It's not worth arguing with you over it because when it comes to Tambling you're so biased it's not funny. The fact you still defend him against all and sundry says it all. If you can't see what others do now in regards to him then you never will.

As MB says, a good ordinary footballer and will never be nothing more. His lack of talent and work ethic won't allow it. I expect him to either get phased out over the coming years or stay as a fringe type player.

You expect them to keep a fringe player on the list over the long term?

You calling me biased is funny BTW. You could just argue the points I'm making for a change.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

If they don't trade him you'd have to assume they have quite a lot of faith in him as more than a 1 trick pony given the depth in the back half.

Not trading someone from the 15th placed team when there are a multitude of other options for delisting is the basis for faith.. OK.

B&F results are one way of looking at form, stats are another. The odd great game can skew overall results dramatically though given the voting method.

Leysy is sure Disco has recited Richie's 2009 B & F results many times on here.

Were they also a result of the odd great game skewing overall results?? Cant seem to recall that being a drawback in the past.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Many times? LOL Leysy. I might've mentioned it once or twice but I'm sure I've never used it as proof of anything on it's own. Stats and ratings are a far more objective measure than B&F's, Brownlow and POTY type votes IMO.

Not trading someone from the 15th placed team when there are a multitude of other options for delisting is the basis for faith.. OK.

You reckon they'd just hold onto him for *smile* and giggles knowing full well he's not going to be a better option than any of the current backline and can't play anywhere else effectively? If they thought he was that limited why would they bother offering him a new 2 year contract?

Notice you didn't respond at all to my other reasoning.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

You reckon they'd just hold onto him for sh!ts and giggles knowing full well he's not going to be a better option than any of the current backline and can't play anywhere else effectively? If they thought he was that limited why would they bother offering him a new 2 year contract?

Best of a bad bunch. It is impossible to jettison everyone you want in one hit or even two. Get rid of the guys who have no chance of making it first. Then as your list gets stronger chop away those who won't fit into the style of play you are after.

We are almost into the second part. I still think over the next three years you will see 8-10 changes to the list per year.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Agree in principle, but they wouldn't have to "jettison" Tambling. They could very easily trade him and replace him with a younger back line prospect if they felt that was the only position he's capable of playing.

8 to 10 might be a bit over the odds. That's 24-30 changes over the next 3 years after 10 last year. That's the entire list virtually in 4 years.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Agree in principle, but they wouldn't have to "jettison" Tambling. They could very easily trade him and replace him with a younger back line prospect if they felt that was the only position he's capable of playing.

8 to 10 might be a bit over the odds. That's 24-30 changes over the next 3 years after 10 last year. That's the entire list virtually in 4 years.

Maybe Tamblings trade value isn't worth anything on the free market. We did invest a top 5 pick and a lot of time, money and resources into him so I could understand not wanting to give him up for peanuts.

8 to 10 a year isn't that many when you throw in the rookie list changes. And not all of this years picks, although promising will make the grade and be on the list in three years time.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

I took rookies into account mate. There's 46 total on our list. You're suggesting +/- 37 changes over 4 years. That's a lot. I reckon 8-10 this year and 6-8 the next two years is more appropriate. Even though some of the draftees certainly won't make it they still need to be given time to develop.

 

[Tigermad2005]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Tambling is in our best 22 ant day of the week.
He is not a star and never will be, wish upsets people and he was such a high pick.
I will not be upset if he is traded and stays on our list.
There is far more player that could be cut before him, inculding player drafted last year.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Many times? LOL Leysy. I might've mentioned it once or twice but I'm sure I've never used it as proof of anything on it's own. Stats and ratings are a far more objective measure than B&F's, Brownlow and POTY type votes IMO.

Agree on the latter two, not sure how B & F's get bundled in with them. Surely a players own coaches rating of how they played a match supersedes stats that dont show how well & player carried out his task in regards to gameplans, negating his direct opponent etc.

You reckon they'd just hold onto him for sh!ts and giggles knowing full well he's not going to be a better option than any of the current backline and can't play anywhere else effectively? If they thought he was that limited why would they bother offering him a new 2 year contract?

Of course they think he is some chance to usurp some of the current backline. At least more than the other guys that are easier choices to be delisted. Mitch Farmer's role is one he should have his eye on. Small forwards have smashed us for years. Positions are available back there for him if good enough. That area of the ground is far from set for the future.

As for not answering other questions, sorry but they were only going to end up re-hashing old stuff that we have been over a thousand times. We know where we stand & leysy doesnt have the inclination to go over it again.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Needs to be 100% fit to have a long term impact one feels. Unlike some doesn't seem all that adept at carrying injury and his performances drop off substantially.
Very surprised that he was re-signed for two years but am happy to back the coach in on this one given the reported injuries resulting in a down season which bucked the previous upward trend.

IMHO Richie has enough talent to be a part of a premiership team one day but a lot of luck will have to go his way in order for that to happen.
and you know what folks say about luck..

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Needs to be 100% fit to have a long term impact one feels. Unlike some doesn't seem all that adept at carrying injury and his performances drop off substantially.

In an interview earlier this year he mentioned that the compartment syndrome had been bothering him for a couple of years and only properly diagnosed late last year:

"It's where oxygen doesn't get to your feet because of your muscle tightness," he said. "Pretty much through the last couple of years I didn't have any oxygen carrying my blood to my feet. No one knew what it was until we got it tested and I ended up needing major surgery."

If that's the case I think he did OK playing through adversity in '08 and '09.

It's only this year his performances dropped off substantially but unless you're extremely cynical he does seem to have some fairly legitimate reasons for that.

Agree on the latter two, not sure how B & F's get bundled in with them. Surely a players own coaches rating of how they played a match supersedes stats that dont show how well & player carried out his task in regards to gameplans, negating his direct opponent etc.

If you think they supersede stats, fair enough. From my experience stat based ratings (particularly pro-stats) routinely reconcile very nicely with what you've seen either in one game or throughout a season. They regularly identify the best and worst players very well. B&F results don't always do that IMO and that would come down to vagaries in the voting process that are not at all transparent. Do the coaches give votes based on how a player played or how well they followed instruction? Are they consistent in their method throughout the year? Who knows?

What I find amusing is that these same stat based ratings almost always agree with the consensus opinion around here of who's a good player and who's not. Yet any time these same ratings are used to try and justify anything involving Tambling they're suddenly completely flawed and unreliable.

Of course they think he is some chance to usurp some of the current backline. At least more than the other guys that are easier choices to be delisted. Mitch Farmer's role is one he should have his eye on. Small forwards have smashed us for years. Positions are available back there for him if good enough. That area of the ground is far from set for the future.

As for not answering other questions, sorry but they were only going to end up re-hashing old stuff that we have been over a thousand times. We know where we stand & leysy doesnt have the inclination to go over it again.

I was talking about the point I made about Newman, Connors and Deledio being fairly entrenched in their backline positions. I don't think we'd discussed that at all before had we?

Yep, maybe Farmers role is one Tambling could aim to try and take, but how many games would Farmer get if Connors is fit and not suspended anyway? We generally play a 6 man defense don't we? The 3 previously mentioned "smalls" plus 3 of Moore, Thursfield, McGuane, Astbury, Gourdis and Grimes?

 

[U2Tigers]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

He has shown how good he can be.

He was the best player for us in a 10-12 game run last year. I would think injury is what has cruelled him.


He may just be another Richmond "confidence " type player also.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Leysy, as an example on B&F voting, do you reckon King was a better player than Cotchin, Martin, Edwards and Cousins this year?

 

[lamb22]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Leysy, as an example on B&F voting, do you reckon King was a better player than Cotchin, Martin, Edwards and Cousins this year?

The coaching panel did, Disco.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

I know that Lamb, hence the question.

Do you think he was better than those 3?

 

[lamb22]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

I know that Lamb, hence the question.

Do you think he was better than those 3?

You're asking the wrong person Disco.............................. but I'd pick Martin and Cotchn before Kingy and 50/50 with edwards. I'd pick Kingy before Richie though ATM.................but that may change

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Leysy, as an example on B&F voting, do you reckon King was a better player than Cotchin, Martin, Edwards and Cousins this year?

Does the B & F voting clearly suggest that does it?

If you think they supersede stats, fair enough. From my experience stat based ratings (particularly pro-stats) routinely reconcile very nicely with what you've seen either in one game or throughout a season. They regularly identify the best and worst players very well.

How do Pro-stats judge how well a player nullifies his opponent? Also how to they take into account the quality of the opponent they play on?

Getting tagged by Cameron Ling, or tagging Gary Ablett or Luke Hodge is decidely harder than getting Simon Hogan or Rick Ladson at those respective clubs. How much pro-stats take that into account?

Yep, maybe Farmers role is one Tambling could aim to try and take, but how many games would Farmer get if Connors is fit and not suspended anyway? We generally play a 6 man defense don't we? The 3 previously mentioned "smalls" plus 3 of Moore, Thursfield, McGuane, Astbury, Gourdis and Grimes?

If you looked at our setup throughout the year it is normally a 7 man defence actually.

You also cannot bank on your starting players getting 22 games a year. There will be plenty of opportunity for others to press there claims in the back half throughout next season.

& Dont forget Connors is only one indiscretion away from getting the arse & still has plenty to do to round out his game to be a lock.