Talking Politics

[RemoteTiger]

No, the same won't follow...because Rudd is a wolf in sheeps clothing, Sixpack.

The only wolf in sheeps clothing is HOWARD - nothing zilch zippo about AWAs prior to the last election - nothing about work choices - he got a mojority in the senate and then claimed he had a mandate to introduce new IR policy - which he did not put to the people prior to the election - because he knows had he done he would not have won the majority in the senate.

HOWARD is a low life and has taken Australia back many years - almost to the 1950s where his beloved Bob Menzies ruled.

And anybody could claim economic growth under the current Minerals and Banking boom - and the turth is it was set up by the big balls Keating had in deregulating the banking sector and opening up the Chinese market.

So you can have your HOWARD the snivelling little weasel and shove him up your posterior.......I hate what he has done to the people and country I love

And I was a member of the Liberal Party but gave my membership away when he took over - we all knew his plans for Australia - I am a grassroots conservative voter but I could never associate myself with him...........The quicker Costello takes over the better.......

 

[barty boy]

IN the 1970s there was a famous Industrial relations case called the" dollar sweets" case,where union power was first seriously challenged,and i believe the case was won by the employer.From what i understand one of the main lawyers representing employers in that case was One Mr peter Costello(I hope I have my facts right here I'm going by memory)
So maybe Mr Costello is not that far removed from John Howard in this particular area of Policy

 

[Liverpool]

The only wolf in sheeps clothing is HOWARD - nothing zilch zippo about AWAs prior to the last election - nothing about work choices - he got a mojority in the senate and then claimed he had a mandate to introduce new IR policy - which he did not put to the people prior to the election - because he knows had he done he would not have won the majority in the senate.

Remote,
You're right...Howard didn't say anything about WorkChoices, and to be honest, a I have stated before...I have no problem with WorkChoices at all.
However, there is a big difference between Howard introducing WorkChoices and people already knowing his morals/values as a PM after years int he position....and Rudd making out to the Australian public that he agrees with Howard, just to get into office...when the true ALP policy is anything but that.

HOWARD is a low life and has taken Australia back many years - almost to the 1950s where his beloved Bob Menzies ruled.

And the problem with the 1950s was?

So you can have your HOWARD the snivelling little weasel and shove him up your posterior.......I hate what he has done to the people and country I love
And I was a member of the Liberal Party but gave my membership away when he took over - we all knew his plans for Australia - I am a grassroots conservative voter but I could never associate myself with him...........The quicker Costello takes over the better.......

Going by your post...I think you mean 'the quicker Rudd takes over the better' so we can be enlightened by the 'true ALP policy'.
Then you can enjoy the ALP opening the flood-gates for immigrants to arrive here by the boat/plane load without any detention centres working out who is who....have lawsuit after lawsuit filed by the Aborigines after Rudd gets on his knees and says "Sorry" to them.......we change the flag and national anthem and become a republic...unions have workers out on strike every 2 seconds like in the 1980s under Cain/Kirner....Rudd butting in to how Asian countries punish their criminals causing friction between us and our nearest neighbours....the list goes on.
And you complain about what Howard has done to the people and country you love? :rofl
Just wait until the ALP has finished with it.....and Rudd gets backstabbed by Gillard....you won't know what country you loved mate.

 

[ssstone]

i was having a chat with the outlaws today(mrs stones mum and dad)one of the ole boys mates is a union employed painter,irish immagrint too.now paddy is in love with mr garrison and hates little johnny.paddy's only been here bout 19 years so knows S.F.A about labors track record.so the outlaws explained to paddy how EVERY time labor wins office the housing industry comes to screaming halt,and we all know where that ends up,no work for subbies/trades and the onflow,finance,suppliers,hospitatity,retail you name it supply outstrips need.our mate paddy thinks that labor stands for working class?maybe once,now it is the domain of teachers,artist's and social engineers.now the ole man has been in the building industry for 40 years,the ole girl has been in data entry for 30 and is well up the ladder,and they both know that most tradies will vote libs cause their memorys aren't that short.

 

[Six Pack]

Who are these 'social engineers' you speak of?

 

[Six Pack]

i was having a chat with the outlaws today(mrs stones mum and dad)one of the ole boys mates is a union employed painter,irish immagrint too.now paddy is in love with mr garrison and hates little johnny.paddy's only been here bout 19 years so knows S.F.A about labors track record.so the outlaws explained to paddy how EVERY time labor wins office the housing industry comes to screaming halt,and we all know where that ends up,no work for subbies/trades and the onflow,finance,suppliers,hospitatity,retail you name it supply outstrips need.our mate paddy thinks that labor stands for working class?maybe once,now it is the domain of teachers,artist's and social engineers.now the ole man has been in the building industry for 40 years,the ole girl has been in data entry for 30 and is well up the ladder,and they both know that most tradies will vote libs cause their memorys aren't that short.

and how do you explain the fact that we have all this growth and progress under state ALP governments?

 

[Tiger74]

Don't be cheeky Liv. Everyone is aware that sooner or later the US consumer boom will slow, which will impact upon the monster factory machine that is China, and then when they stop begging for our steel and coal our economy will be b&^%-slapped, and there is nothing either party can do about it. Furthermore, this may happen regardless of the USA if the Chinese Government cannot control its current high inflation and growing bad debt problems (Govt is spending billions funding banks bad loans to avoid them collapsing).
The sooner the illusion that our economy is NOT 90% dependant upon the world economy the better. Like it or not Bush and Hu have more influence on your economic position than does any politician of any persuasion in this country.

Tiger74,
It looks like you're getting your excuses ready for when Ruddy stuffs it all up...

Wish I was ;D Unfortunately this is a pet issue of mine. Everyone thinks this bl00dy boom is going to go on forever, I still remember hearing the same rubbish during the tech-boom and the junk bond boom of the 80's. Every boom has a bust, and ours is coming. The only questions are when and how severe it will hit. Govt policy can exacerbate or minimize the impact of the latter, but neither side is planning to reinvest at this stage (idiotic policies like the stupid baby bonus both sides love because its pure pork barrelling, while decent tax reform can wait another generation).

 

[RemoteTiger]

Going by your post...I think you mean 'the quicker Rudd takes over the better' so we can be enlightened by the 'true ALP policy'.
Then you can enjoy the ALP opening the flood-gates for immigrants to arrive here by the boat/plane load without any detention centres working out who is who....have lawsuit after lawsuit filed by the Aborigines after Rudd gets on his knees and says "Sorry" to them.......we change the flag and national anthem and become a republic...unions have workers out on strike every 2 seconds like in the 1980s under Cain/Kirner....Rudd butting in to how Asian countries punish their criminals causing friction between us and our nearest neighbours....the list goes on.
And you complain about what Howard has done to the people and country you love? :rofl
Just wait until the ALP has finished with it.....and Rudd gets backstabbed by Gillard....you won't know what country you loved mate.

It was Menzies who started the influx of immigrants - populate or perish was his slogan - he brought in all the Greeks and Italians from war torn Europe - it all esculated from there - Lawsuit after lawsuit from the aborigines - maybe an apology that precludes current anglo-saxons from being blamed for the wrongs of previous anglos-saxons thus preventing any legal ramifications - and there is nothing wrong with being a republic particularly when our future resides with trading with Asia as the latest mineral boom has proven - there is a history making move by Rudd in keeping the Unions at arms length plus he is picking his own cabinet so caucus' powers are depleted - teaching underpriveleged nations about how not to be barbaric by excluding the death penalty is a step in the right direction if you are a humane person - yes I complain about what Howard has done - he has created the haves and the have nots - those that can aford education medical attention houses etc. etc. do have them but there is a growing majority of Australians who cannot have proper education, medical attention and buy houses because of this little pricks ambivalence to the worker - the very same worker that built this nation - the very same worker who has gone and fought for this nation. Howard has put us into theatres of war where we did not need to be - there are now 2 Australian families without their loved one because of Howard playing politics with the fear of terrorism - did you see those young girls on the TV tonight they do not have their father because we are in a conflict we should never have been in.

Howard has *smile* the parliament with his total lack of Ministerial accountability - imagine your boss saying to you find somebody under you to blame make sure it is not seen as your fault because they did not tell you but they only told you advisors. If you do that I'll make sure you keep your job - how long would your company's profits last? Who would be running the company? Not the management but your advisors. The country is not being managed by those who have been elected to do so - Downer "I was not told of the Iraq wheat payments" *smile*! His office was told over one hundred times - Vanstone "I was not told of these Australian persons' deportation to there parent's countries - even though they themselves never lived there. *smile*! Her office signed the bloody deportation notices.

If a minister is not running his/her portfolio then who is? and why is this so? If a minister is not being told then that minister should be sacked immediately for not being properly in charge of his/her portfolio.

Wait till Labour again opens up new opportunites like Keating did with the Banking Sector and Chinese Trade because those new opportunities will make Australians all prosper not just the few that do under the Liberals - like their American Free Trade Agreement that has made it so much easier for the large USA companies to sell their products in Australia and buy out Australian companies as the Australian companies become shakey due to the yanks taking their traditional sales markets. A dollar spent on a foreign company means about 34c stay in Australia - a dollar spent on an Australian company actually increase to over $2 as it stays in and moves around the local economy. Look at where R&D is done these days - no where near the extent it was done in Australia during the 1970s 80s and early 90s - because Howard's government has removed the previous excellent tax gains for companies to do R&D

Howard in the last 11 years has missed many opportunities to use the money from the minerals and bank booms to help build the infrastructure of Australia - all he has done is put it in a war chest to fight and win elections - while the Australian infrastructure has aged. He has cut enormous spending to the states for Hospitals, Schools, bridges, roads, rail - all of these now are being driven by private sector companies who demand a profit from their investment hence only those that can afford to use these assets can use them - those that can't - bad luck.

Lastly I bet you Liverpool and ssstone are of the generation that got an excellent education and medical treatment because during your formative years a Malcom Fraser Government and a number of Labor governments set those critical infrastructure assets up for you.

Under bonsai Johnny the rich have got richer and the rest can go please themselves - in the great historical words when bread had become scarce "Let them eat cake"

Thats what Johnny has done to our country

 

[ssstone]

remote your typical "bash jonny" blinds you ... so menzies was the father of multicultreism? well didnt that give the socialists something to run with.so according to your train of thought my grandfather should of apoligised ?a republic would change WHAT?if you really belive that the unions are at arms length,you are NAIVE .WHITLAM CREATED THE HAVES /HAVE NOTS through social stupidity.prior to the dole/pension the young looked after the old/inferm just like any asian country .where were you rt in the late 80's/early 90's?not in the yarra valley where the labor gods HAWKE AND KEATING with the help of KIRNER to save money scrapped technical schools to save money ..no soory my mistake ,..we were going to be THE CLEVER COUNTRY.3 generations lost because of this,..think about that when you need a tradie next.we weren't all born to be rhodes scholars.yeah everyone could afford houses and education back then.it was allright when little jon led us into the thearte of war in east timor?something 2 generation of alp failed to do?is it only the right of the left to pick and choose our fights?remote are you at all familar with the RED CARD? everyone is accountable,even those underlings that dare to have an opinion on the fate of the bali bombers.NO CHILD WILL LIVE IN POVERTY.....THE RECESSION WE HAD TO HAVE...BANNA REPUBLIC..YES OF COURSE KEATING WAS AN ECONOMIC GOD,that must be why intrest rates are steady,emcployments high and wages..labor in the 80,s opened australia up to cheap labor imports due to lower tarrifs that have WITHOUT SPIT OR VASALINE have *smile* our manurfactoring industries ever since.AND I WILL CONCEDE THAT JONNY AND HIS LOT HAVE FAIL;ED TO CORRECT.ask me one day why ford kept making a ute it designed in 1976 up to 1992,and why holden canned theirs.34 cents stay in australia?? tell brumby that now he's sold the rights to vic's scrachies overseas...hospitals/schools/bridges and roads are the responsilbilty of state guvvermints...guess who is in charge their??check out the vic budget surplus this year,due to RAPE of the taxpayer...remote your rant is typical,i would give even odds you voted for the moron latham.AND BY THE WAY.MY EDUCATION DIDNT GET TOO FAR.. I JUST GOT OFF MY LAZY ASS AND WORKED 4 WHAT I HAVE.left school at the ripe ole age of 14.came from a dirt poor upbringing,and look at me now .I CAN AFFORD A COMPOOTER :cutelaugh

 

[jb03]

Crikey you guys, please succinct each post into one small paragraph so the little people can follow the "argument/discussion."

 

[RemoteTiger]

Whilst state governments manage the education and medical systems in their respective states they rely solely on the funding of such from the federal government - Howards government has decreased funding to the states by $1b per year for Hospitals and the like and has reduced spending on Public Education whilst increasing it on private education - again the haves and the have nots.

Also public education is the breeding ground of the left wing voter whilst the private schools are further right wing than Ghegus Khan.

You can point out interests rates under the Hawk Labor Government but - Please don't forget that when John Howard was Treasurer in Malcolm Fraser's Government interest rates reached 16% - I don't believe Federal Governments have much say in the Global Economy which has all the buttons that push or pull Australian Interest Rates.

The Australian IT Industry has become a Bananna Republic under Howard - there are less and less Australian IT Companies now because of the lack of assistance for R&D - we use to be renowned for our Software development - most of which has moved to either Ireland, India or Malaysia because of the excellent tax breaks on R&D in those places.

History shows the Liberals are just as poor managers of Australia as the Labor mob when it comes to economics - particularly if you take the record of the Labor Government during the war years and the recession years of the early 60s under Menzies - John Howard has been arguably one of our worst Prime Ministers for forsight and creating opportunity for Australians and Australian business in the last decade - a decade of boom time.

You're not going to change your mind about who is the best party to govern - but I can tell you during my voting career I have swung from one major party to the other on 4 occasions. So i like to believe I think about my vote rather than just follow a philosophy blindly.........

 

[The_General]

vertical fiscal imbalance

 

[The_General]

And the problem with the 1950s was?

Nothing wrong with the 50's but the world has changed a lot since then. Our economic policy is completely different. We don't use Keynesian economics now to run government, we use the horrid Economic Rationalist method. Keynesian economics is basically the method of running governments/economys that existed throughout most of the Western world post ww2. It basically meant that to stimulate the countries economy, government would encourage growth through infrastructure programs, expanding public service, with welfare etc. By employing more people, and putting extra money into the economy, you'd stimulate growth. Both Labour & Liberal used this theory of economics until the 80's, when focus shifted to management of debt. It's quite hypocritical of either party to point to economic management through those years, because it was accepted practice in many, many countries.

Subsequently, we also can't keep relying on primary industry to keep the country chugging along. That's one of the crucial things that the coalition fail to progress from, because they are bound to the national/country party heritage too much, in the same way Labour is bound to the unions in it's party platform.

One of Howards first economic policies when he came to power all those years ago was to repeal the tax breaks for R & D. They were cut completely. The same tax breaks were then passed on to primary industries. It's costing us heaps in terms of qualified engineers. Heaps of them left and went to work overseas, where they could get jobs. Guess what, we have a shortage of them now. At my work, we're getting applicants from India, the middle east, etc for engineers with no experience, because there's so few people here to fill the empty jobs. And if we do get someone with experience who's been living and working in Aust for a while, they are for almost twice the going rate, because they know there's not enough engineers to fill all the jobs!

 

[Tiger74]

Thank god, election finally called.

Nov 24 is the day, so get ready for 6 weeks of butt kissing, advertising bombardment, and rubbish promises.

Whoever you back, good luck, and lets hope this goes well for all

 

[Liverpool]

Thank god, election finally called.
Nov 24 is the day, so get ready for 6 weeks of butt kissing, advertising bombardment, and rubbish promises.
Whoever you back, good luck, and lets hope this goes well for all

6 weeks for 'The Echo' to agree, agree, support, and agree with the Libs......then he'll be in the big chair....and whammo! Welcome to the true ALP policy.

 

[Tiger74]

Thank god, election finally called.
Nov 24 is the day, so get ready for 6 weeks of butt kissing, advertising bombardment, and rubbish promises.
Whoever you back, good luck, and lets hope this goes well for all

6 weeks for 'The Echo' to agree, agree, support, and agree with the Libs......then he'll be in the big chair....and whammo! Welcome to the true ALP policy.

Poor poor Liv, but I will not be biting to your baiting. At least with the election called the policy debate can begin (I agree "small target" tactics are annoying, but you cannot dispute they work - Howard 'beat Keating with this strategy). Personally I would like a more honest and open debate if ideas and thought, but I'm realistic enough to accept that the media and the electorate have no interest in this (the argy bargy sells papers :

 

[Six Pack]

6 weeks for 'The Echo' to agree, agree, support, and agree with the Libs......then he'll be in the big chair....and whammo! Welcome to the true ALP policy.

You don't seem to have much faith in the intelligence of the average Australian voter, Livers.

 

[Liverpool]

6 weeks for 'The Echo' to agree, agree, support, and agree with the Libs......then he'll be in the big chair....and whammo! Welcome to the true ALP policy.

You don't seem to have much faith in the intelligence of the average Australian voter, Livers.

I think many people want change for the sake of change....but they wouldn't want change if Rudd was too far away from what the Libs have been doing. (see Latham, as an example)

It's like going to a restaurant where you can get a good meal for a good price....but after going there every night, no matter how good the meals are, you would still be wanting a change of venue.

There is nothing I can do about....I will vote the Libs....but I know Rudd will win this time.
Maybe Australia needs a taste of the ALP for a term or two to bring them back to reality?

Anyways Sixpack...what local candidate are you voting for....which party?
You missed that question earlier...

 

[Six Pack]

6 weeks for 'The Echo' to agree, agree, support, and agree with the Libs......then he'll be in the big chair....and whammo! Welcome to the true ALP policy.

You don't seem to have much faith in the intelligence of the average Australian voter, Livers.

I think many people want change for the sake of change....but they wouldn't want change if Rudd was too far away from what the Libs have been doing. (see Latham, as an example)

It's like going to a restaurant where you can get a good meal for a good price....but after going there every night, no matter how good the meals are, you would still be wanting a change of venue.

There is nothing I can do about....I will vote the Libs....but I know Rudd will win this time.
Maybe Australia needs a taste of the ALP for a term or two to bring them back to reality?

Anyways Sixpack...what local candidate are you voting for....which party?
You missed that question earlier...

i always thought that was one of those things that you didn't ask.....

 

[Liverpool]

There is nothing I can do about....I will vote the Libs....but I know Rudd will win this time.

Anyways Sixpack...what local candidate are you voting for....which party?
You missed that question earlier...

i always thought that was one of those things that you didn't ask.....

Rubbish....only the people who don't have the guts to stand by their convictions fall back on that excuse...