Talking Politics

[tigersnake]

bleedin obvious yes mld. as for calling bracks, dodgey as well. Improper process. It stinks. Just like the time he ALLEGEDLY upped his tender for the casino after just happening to attend a barbe at JK's place. But they never discussed the casino of course.

Walker is exactly like Burke, just does it with far more style and panache, and is far more effective.

Comparing Walker to Burke is just plain silly Snake.

Why is that JB?

both heavy hitters in their parties, both held high office, both have the ear of current heavy hitters, both implicated in questionable use of said contacts with heavy hitters. Just like comparing Demott Brereton with Royce Hart really

Walker, while he may be a blue blood right wing liberal with the ear of influential people, has actually done a lot of good things for the public, particularly Victoria. Bracks was certainly keen to keep him involved when he took power.

Being a heavy hitting liberal doesn't automatically mean you are corrupt - that is more likely the domain of simply being a politician, left or right.

The blue blood thing doesn't worry me, the ear of influencial people does. I'm sure he has done good stuff, while always making a big buck of course. But I have no problem with people making big bucks as long as the process they do it is transparent. It never will be of course, but at least cut out the blatent stuff, like the Walker casino business. Anyway I'm sure Burke supporters could argue he did some good stuff while premier of WA. I'm sure the vast majority of dodgey operators would have done 'some good things'.

Left/ right I don't care, although neither of our parties could really be called left, they should do the right thing.

I think mld earlier which was critical and your post, which isn't really show that people mostly accept the back-room favours to the big boys who are already rich. I don't. I think it stinks that any politician after they retire walks into a six-figure 'consultancey' job, like Carr with MacQuarrie bank, Makenroth with Origin energy here in Qld, Reith, Alston, Woodrige, the list goes on and on, everyone knows its purely to milk their contacts to get monster public contracts, why else? The smaller companies hate it too, they should be able to compete equally with the big boys for the big contracts.

 

[Liverpool]

I'm still waiting on the ALP response.......hows that glass house going there?

When you said "ladies" plural was I right in assuming you included me Livers? If so where's the apology for linking me as a firm supporter of the ALP? You've very wrong if you did include me and shouldn't be so quick to categorise people.

My comment about pots and black kettles covers glass houses too. The Libs started the mud-slinging and had to go into damage control to save face. A few panes of glass shattered from the stones they threw. Funny. :hihi

Rosy,

Yes, you are correct in your assumption....I was including you.
This was because you were lambasting the Libs, saying things like "pot kettle black", etc.

Now, that Campbell has resigned, and we still haven't heard or seen any evidence of any type of discipline handed down to Rudd for the same thing, we are not hearing such quotes now.

This doesn't sound like someone as "neutral" as you claim to be, Rosy?

Yes, the Libs started mud-slinging....and yes, you may be right with the 'damage control' accusations aimed at the Libs.
I'll give you that one.

But do you think the ALP should be let off the hook altogether?

 

[mld]

It is pretty funny when people automatically assume those who attack the current federal government are Labor supporters. I'm certainly not a Labor man. People can be so blinded by partisan politics that they can't understand the fact that true (yes, big L) Liberals hate what Howard's government has done to the party and the country.

If you don't see that the only reason Campbell 'resigned', then you are truly blind. It was an exceptionally manipulative piece of ploitics from Howard. Most recently, on these standards, neither Vaile nor Downer would be ministers due to their 'incompetance' in being able to 'not remember' any of the many recorded communications of the AWB bribing the dictator Sadaam Husseinto the tune of $300m, certainly a far greater crime.

 

[Liverpool]

If you don't see that the only reason Campbell 'resigned', then you are truly blind. It was an exceptionally manipulative piece of ploitics from Howard. Most recently, on these standards, neither Vaile nor Downer would be ministers due to their 'incompetance' in being able to 'not remember' any of the many recorded communications of the AWB bribing the dictator Sadaam Husseinto the tune of $300m, certainly a far greater crime.

I didn't say it wasn't....but I'll ask you the same question I asked Rosy....do you think the ALP/Rudd should be let off the hook altogether though?

 

[Rosy]

Yes, you are correct in your assumption....I was including you.
This was because you were lambasting the Libs, saying things like "pot kettle black", etc.

Derrrrrr I "lambasted" (whatever you mean by that) the Libs because of their actions towards Rudd then finding they were guilty of the same thing. Nothing to do with which party they are.

Now, that Campbell has resigned, and we still haven't heard or seen any evidence of any type of discipline handed down to Rudd for the same thing, we are not hearing such quotes now.

This doesn't sound like someone as "neutral" as you claim to be, Rosy?

I've already posted what I thought so why would I use the same quotes again? Yet again, for your benefit, I said it because of the way the Libs got into Rudd. Performances worthy of the greatest Shakespearean theatre, the loud voices and drama in Parliament. The big difference you don't seem to get is the ALP didn't get stuck into the Libs. If the tables were turned I'd be laughing at the other party.

I don't claim to be "neutral" as such so please stop trying to categorise me as I asked. I've voted for both parties in my life. I don't understand how anyone follows a party blindly regardless of their personnel and policies. I judge each on their merits and Little Johnny doesn't have enough of them for me to vote for him at the next election.

But do you think the ALP should be let off the hook altogether?

Yes I do, as I think Cambpell would have been let off the hook if the Libs didn't start the mud slinging for something they were guilty of themselves when there is an election looming. They needed a sacrificial lamb because of their own actions. They brought it upon themselves and virtually had no choice if they wanted to save face.

The Libs stuffing up doesn't mean the ALP should have to react to the situation in the same way.

Tell me Livers, are you a Liberal Party voter? Do you think they stuffed up, even just a little, and backed themselves into a bit of a corner? Do you find it somewhat amusing? I do. ;D

 

[tigersnake]

If you don't see that the only reason Campbell 'resigned', then you are truly blind. It was an exceptionally manipulative piece of ploitics from Howard. Most recently, on these standards, neither Vaile nor Downer would be ministers due to their 'incompetance' in being able to 'not remember' any of the many recorded communications of the AWB bribing the dictator Sadaam Husseinto the tune of $300m, certainly a far greater crime.

I didn't say it wasn't....but I'll ask you the same question I asked Rosy....do you think the ALP/Rudd should be let off the hook altogether though?

It was dumb, but in the scheme of things, the obvious answer is yes. Slap on the wrist and lift your game. I really didn't want to get into tit far tat, but Howards efforts on the children overboard, Downer and Vaile's on AWB, were a lot worse. People have memories of carp.

Why do i get into arguments with liverpool?

 

[Liverpool]

But do you think the ALP should be let off the hook altogether?

Yes I do, as I think Cambpell would have been let off the hook if the Libs didn't start the mud slinging for something they were guilty of themselves when there is an election looming. They needed a sacrificial lamb because of their own actions. They brought it upon themselves and virtually had no choice if they wanted to save face.
The Libs stuffing up doesn't mean the ALP should have to react to the situation in the same way.
Tell me Livers, are you a Liberal Party voter? Do you think they stuffed up, even just a little, and backed themselves into a bit of a corner? Do you find it somewhat amusing? I do. ;D

O.k...so its not what the 'crime' is, but because the Libs started the mud-slinging then they should be the only ones accountable for their actions?

To me, if BOTH Campbell and Rudd did something wrong....I'm no denying that.
The Libs have chosen themselves to release Campbell of his duties.

Now, the ALP has a choice of how they are going to discipline Rudd.....but so far...nothing....no a peep.
That's THEIR prerogative, and I respect that.
However, I think its hypocrictical of people then to slag-off on Howard/Campbell.Libs...at least they have done something, even if it is to save face.
The ALP have done what they usually do......ZERO!

To answer your other questions:
* Yes, i did vote Libs last time, and I think there might be a good chance I might go that way again next time too!
* Yes, I think the Libs did stuff-up by not knowing what their own party-members are doing before having a crack at Rudd.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Rudd should be looked upon as Mr.Innocent either...he has some answering to do too, I feel.

 

[Rosy]

O.k...so its not what the 'crime' is, but because the Libs started the mud-slinging then they should be the only ones accountable for their actions?

At last he sees the light.  :idea 

Why should the ALP have to follow suit because the Libs tried to politically assassinate Rudd but instead shot themselves in the foot? :hihi

 

[Rosy]

However, I think its hypocrictical of people then to slag-off on Howard/Campbell.Libs...at least they have done something, even if it is to save face.

Answer me this Livers. If the Libs knew of Campbell's meeting with Burke before they hooked into Rudd would they have still been so vocal about it? Methinks not.

 

[Liverpool]

O.k...so its not what the 'crime' is, but because the Libs started the mud-slinging then they should be the only ones accountable for their actions?

At last he sees the light. :idea

Why should the ALP have to follow suit because the Libs tried to politically assassinate Rudd but instead shot themselves in the foot? :hihi

Rosy,
Where did I say the Libs were innocent in all this?
I didn't.

I just found it very hypocritical that the Libs are expected to act (they have), and yet, Rudd is not derided at all, for committing the same act?

The ALP don't HAVE to do anything.....but if they don't, it says more about them as a Party.

However, I think its hypocrictical of people then to slag-off on Howard/Campbell.Libs...at least they have done something, even if it is to save face.

Answer me this Livers. If the Libs knew of Campbell's meeting with Burke before they hooked into Rudd would they have still been so vocal about it? Methinks not.

Methinks not too....but it still doesn't excuse Rudd, does it?
he has done something wrong, and if the ALP have the guts, they'll do something about it.
If not...thats their prerogative....and let the voters decide on election day.

P.S: I'm not as anti-Rudd as you think....I like his immigration policy, for a start!

 

[Rosy]

Two things Livers then I'll let you have the last word if you wish.

Firstly I've never said you think the Libs are innocent in all this so why ask me where you said it, and then tell me you didn't? :hmm

Secondly I've never posted that I think you are anti-Rudd, so yet again why tell me what I think. :

As well as stopping categorising my political persuasions how about you stop trying to put words in my mouth too. :bs

Seems we agree on one thing. The voters will decide but I bet Johnny wouldn't have the guts to call an election and let them decide at this moment.

 

[jb03]

Two things Livers then I'll let you have the last word if you wish.

Firstly I've never said you think the Libs are innocent in all this so why ask me where you said it, and then tell me you didn't? :hmm

Secondly I've never posted that I think you are anti-Rudd, so yet again why tell me what I think. :

As well as stopping categorising my political persuasions how about you stop trying to put words in my mouth too. :bs

Seems we agree on one thing. The voters will decide but I bet Johnny wouldn't have the guts to call an election and let them decide at this moment.

Why all this angst that Howard should call the election now? And why is it implied that he is weak if he doesn't? Let the full terms run.

 

[Rosy]

Why all this angst that Howard should call the election now? And why is it implied that he is weak if he doesn't? Let the full terms run.

1-Wasn't aware of any angst so can't answer that. You'll have to ask someone who knows about it.

2-I'm not implying he's weak but more inferring I think he'd be in a spot of bother if the election was this week...which of course couldn't be organised at such short notice even if he wanted to.

3-I have no say in when the election is, nor do I care.

 

[Liverpool]

Seems we agree on one thing. The voters will decide but I bet Johnny wouldn't have the guts to call an election and let them decide at this moment.

Why all this angst that Howard should call the election now? And why is it implied that he is weak if he doesn't? Let the full terms run.
[/quote]

JB03,
Exactly.
the ALP-voters want an election now, as they see this as their best chance to get a result.....but I also think Rudd/ALP/ALP-voters are playing a bit of bluff too.
I hope Little Johnny stays strong, and makes them wait....as is his right to do so.

Rosy,
Why do you want him to call an election now for?
what is the rush?

 

[Rosy]

Rosy,
Why do you want him to call an election now for?
what is the rush?

There you go again.  Refer to point 3 of my previous post. :

 

[RemoteTiger]

My take on this is that a once John Howard - calculating politician would have had all his ducks in a row before taking Mr Rudd to the cleaners about a meeting with Burke.

This lack of homework by John and his advisers is creeping into a number of his decisions lately and I think he and his Government are either becoming tired or aloof. I feel it is the first one.

He also blundered on the defence purchase of the new fighter jets - his decision solely - did not take Cabinet into account nor the Department of Defence - we are now tied to a contract to accept these new fighter jets (billions of $$$$) which are taking longer to build and hence longer to deliver. Further the Defence guys have openly stated the jets were not their first choice - but were purchased by John without consulting them - infering but not stating it was done to please or appease Mr George Bush.

Next he has made a decision on the Murray Darling River System and again without consulting Cabinet or the relevant Departments - rumour has it that the head of his own department (Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet) is providing John with all the information he needs to make the decisions - that makes that department head a very powerful person - and an non-elected one at that.

But there is one area where i feel John is doing a very good job - the Australian Access Card - it will save the country billions over the next few years and will bring our social security net up to what it is meant to be. My fear is that those who follow John will take his project and re-direct it into use by the national security agencies - we will then have the Australia Card - something which none of us according to the press want.

John and his government are becoming a tad lazy in their usual due diligence before making announcements...........

 

[Liverpool]

Rosy,
Why do you want him to call an election now for?
what is the rush?

There you go again. Refer to point 3 of my previous post. :

3-I have no say in when the election is, nor do I care.

You must have just beaten me before I posted my post.


I see "Mr. Honesty" is getting a bit rattled....got the names mixed-up 3 times, when watching the vision on TV this morning.... :hihi


Rattled Rudd faces his toughest test

KEVIN Rudd is facing the most critical week of his three months as Opposition Leader, after Prime Minister John Howard sacrificed a cabinet minister to give the Government a clear run at painting him as dishonest over his contact with Brian Burke.

Mr Howard yesterday claimed Mr Rudd appeared to have put himself in debt to the disgraced former premier and had not told the truth about their meeting.

Mr Rudd was under obvious strain yesterday, confusing names as he stuck to his version of a dinner he attended with Mr Burke in August 2005, one of three contacts that year.

Labor colleagues are watching anxiously as Mr Rudd grapples with his first serious test since he seized the leadership in December, sending Labor's polls and hopes soaring. Government ministers are anxious to stop Mr Rudd's trajectory and hope the controversy undermines his support in the next round of polls.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rattled-rudd-faces-toughest-test/2007/03/04/1172943276206.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

 

[tigersnake]

yeah agree remote. He's been doing things out of character recently which stand out. The attack on Obama was wierd and a bit disturbing. A lot of other Democrat candidates have the same policy, including some that are ahead of Obama, like Edward, but he only attacked Obama. The policy he attacked him on is hardly radical or unpopular, staged withdrawal, the Democrats are hardly a radical organisation and regularly hold power. It was right out of character, a pretty extreme attack which didn't seem thought out at all, or if it was, it was JH being willing to help his mate at the risk of damaging Australia in the long term. It didn't make any sense.

 

[an_oxford_man]

The ALP needs a record swing to win the next election. It is not going to happen.

 

[poppa x]

Since he was elected His Keviness has been hailed as the latest ALP Saviour. He could do no wrong, see no wrong and hear no wrong. Well I guess we've all just found out he's like all the rest. He's a bloody politician. Just like Howard.