Talking Politics

[tigersnake]

sorry, didn't fully explain my point jb, the electorate NOW, from JH onwards, seems to have shifted to embracing boring nerdy-types, whereas we used to go for leaders with some spark and charisma, pre JH, people thought they were prerequisites for a leader, but not anymore.

and like I said, brilliant politician. I personally think Bomber could have done at least as good a job, 5 years ago that is, but he wasn't as good as convincing the electorate as JH. (although he did get more votes in 01) PK could have as well. Latham was a stuff up. But its all pointless speculation really. If JH had used the the huge wealth we've generated in the last decade to build infrastructure for the future, rather than buy his way back into power by giving tax cuts to people who don't need the dough, I'd give him his dues.

Also, his complete denial and ridicule of the global warming until 2 months ago has been one of the most scandalous and cynical policies ever in Aus. His greatest achievement has been staying in power, and when you look at the opposition, its not that big an achievment.

 

[jb03]

sorry, didn't fully explain my point jb, the electorate NOW, from JH onwards, seems to have shifted to embracing boring nerdy-types, whereas we used to go for leaders with some spark and charisma, pre JH, people thought they were prerequisites for a leader, but not anymore.

It is not so much Howard's type but more simply that Howard has found himself as PM in a period of relatively good times in Australia, expecially when considering the ills that abound around the world.  When times are prosperous and good, incumbent goverments usually win.  Witness the 20 odd state elections in a row that the Liberals have lost despite federally being in front by a mile.  In times like these Governments have to right royally fvck up to be ousted.  Howard is not dis-similar to Bracks in that the key is to maintain the status quo.

and like I said, brilliant politician. I personally think Bomber could have done at least as good a job,

Can't agree with that.  There is no evidence that Bomber could have done any sort of job.  God bloke perhaps - but not in JH's league as a polly (which is their core busniess as such) nor as a leader IMO.  The left may despise Howard but the fact is he has done enough to be in power for 11 odd years and Beasley has thankfully been excused from an embarrassing threepeat against him.

Also, his complete denial and ridicule of the global warming until 2 months ago has been one of the most scandalous and cynical policies ever in Aus. His greatest achievement has been staying in power, and when you look at the opposition, its not that big an achievment.

Global Warming is a good example of poeple getting worked up by JH when they shouldn't.  To many, including me, (and I risk alienation from 9/10's of PRE) global warming is over rated as a key issue so I don't think it is as scandalous and cynical as you make out.  You'll note also that is is not called global warming because as this theory didn't stack up it is now known as climate change.

 

[tigersnake]

can't compete with your fancy quoternatoring, but,

I agree on the encumbecy during prosperous times point, completely, but I reckon that backs up my point that he's overrated. On Bomber, fair enough, we'll never know. I reckon Labor would have done more to build infrastruructure, but we'll never know.

Re climate change, you're entitled to your opinion, but the scientific basis for it has shrunken to miniscule proportions. I'm not saying we should have been made to have our own windmills and eat mung beans, but in view of the sientific evidence, any de cent leader would have been doing something about it 10 years ago. Instead, Howard and Bush have just been citing the evidence of the minority of scientists whose view has been politically convenient, ie, CC isn't happening, but it finally reached the point where the evidence and scientific consensus was overwhelming. On important matters like CC, leaders should be leading, not being dragged kicking and screaming into acting by the public.

 

[Anduril]

More Howard "leadership" :
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/howards-bioterror-distortion/2006/12/06/1165081019778.html

 

[Chelsea]

This should soothe everyone's nerves re politics.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hanson-attacks-diseased-immigrants/2006/12/07/1165081058437.html

At least she has the temerity to say in public, what a lot of Australians think in private, but are too scared to say because of the 'political correctness' attitude in this country. I think the way things are going here at the present time, questions do need to be asked..... and answered, and as least Pauline isn't afraid to ask..... :clap

 

[Anduril]

:

 

[Liverpool]

This should soothe everyone's nerves re politics. 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hanson-attacks-diseased-immigrants/2006/12/07/1165081058437.html

At least she has the temerity to say in public, what a lot of Australians think in private, but are too scared to say because of the 'political correctness' attitude in this country. I think the way things are going here at the present time, questions do need to be asked..... and answered, and as least Pauline isn't afraid to ask..... :clap

Chelsea,
Yes, I saw/heard about Hanson coming back into politics this morning.
People on this very thread have complained that they don't like Howard but the alternative in Beazley (now Rudd) is no good either.
Maybe these people will "Vote 1 Pauline" at the next election?

Good to see even more 'tolerance' being preached by the left-wing/political-correct ones, towards someone who has a different view to them:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hanson-a-bloodsucker-brown/2006/12/07/1165081058437.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

 

[Rosy]

David Hicks in effect being held for 5 years for things they didn't have enough proof to convict him on before new charges are made retrospectively is concerning to me as an Australian citizen. I'm not a supporter of David Hicks in the least but the USA and Australian Government's handling of the whole situation involving one of our citizens is very scary.

"I have asked ... that the trial be brought on as soon as humanly possible and that there be no further delay,'' Little Johnny Bonsai said. "I have put that very plainly.''

What took so long? Wouldn't be an election coming up would there? :

 

[evo]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

 

[mld]

Yes, it is gutter politics at its worst.

 

[Michael]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

I reckon Burkey would eat all the scones

Golly, this bloke has been on the ALP's no go list for 4 years. WTF was Ruddy thinking

 

[poppa x]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

I reckon Burkey would eat all the scones

Golly, this bloke has been on the ALP's no go list for 4 years. WTF was Ruddy thinking

he wasn't. and that's a worry.

 

[Rosy]

I like the way Rudd has handled it. Straight down the line honest, as opposed to the usual beating around the bush (whoops Johnny Bonsai thread), lies, excuses and coverups which tends to be the norm than the exception.

Edit: I just read that again and it sounds very naive. I wouldn't have a clue if Rudd was being honest or not but I like the way he comes across.

 

[tigersnake]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

I reckon Burkey would eat all the scones

Golly, this bloke has been on the ALP's no go list for 4 years. WTF was Ruddy thinking

he wasn't. and that's a worry.

agreed. dumb as you know what. To be fair though, Howard and costello have done a masterful job of sidestepping the whole backroom discussions with Walker and co over getting the jump on monster contracts for the counties future power needs, (as we know Walker ALLEGEDLY pulled a similar favour with Kennett to get tha Casino tender up). Probably dodgier than rudds effort in the scheme of things, but they get away with it, they're good.

 

[mld]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

I reckon Burkey would eat all the scones

Golly, this bloke has been on the ALP's no go list for 4 years. WTF was Ruddy thinking

he wasn't. and that's a worry.

agreed. dumb as you know what. To be fair though, Howard and costello have done a masterful job of sidestepping the whole backroom discussions with Walker and co over getting the jump on monster contracts for the counties future power needs, (as we know Walker ALLEGEDLY pulled a similar favour with Kennett to get tha Casino tender up). Probably dodgier than rudds effort in the scheme of things, but they get away with it, they're good.

That is because everyone expects the Liberals to have under-the-table dealings with dodgy business people. I agree though, the whole Ron Walker ringing up to discuss the nuclear technology company and his good friend Howard coincidentally putting nuclear power on table a few days later is a far sight worse imo.

 

[baktiger]

Rudds getting a bit of a beating over his tea and scones with Burkey.

I reckon Burkey would eat all the scones

Golly, this bloke has been on the ALP's no go list for 4 years. WTF was Ruddy thinking

he wasn't. and that's a worry.

agreed. dumb as you know what. To be fair though, Howard and costello have done a masterful job of sidestepping the whole backroom discussions with Walker and co over getting the jump on monster contracts for the counties future power needs, (as we know Walker ALLEGEDLY pulled a similar favour with Kennett to get tha Casino tender up). Probably dodgier than rudds effort in the scheme of things, but they get away with it, they're good.

That is because everyone expects the Liberals to have under-the-table dealings with dodgy business people. I agree though, the whole Ron Walker ringing up to discuss the nuclear technology company and his good friend Howard coincidentally putting nuclear power on table a few days later is a far sight worse imo.

What an absolute load of BS. Walker also called Steve Bracks, and a number of other Labour luminaries.

There is nothing under the table about it at all.

 

[mld]

Of course, which is why we only find out over 6 months later.

Business man makes call to a friend who happens to be PM, subject of call is then put on the national agenda. Surely you can see the conflict of interest here.

 

[tigersnake]

bleedin obvious yes mld. as for calling bracks, dodgey as well. Improper process. It stinks. Just like the time he ALLEGEDLY upped his tender for the casino after just happening to attend a barbe at JK's place. But they never discussed the casino of course.

Walker is exactly like Burke, just does it with far more style and panache, and is far more effective.

 

[mld]

bleedin obvious yes mld. as for calling bracks, dodgey as well. Improper process. It stinks. Just like the time he ALLEGEDLY upped his tender for the casino after just happening to attend a barbe at JK's place. But they never discussed the casino of course.

Walker is exactly like Burke, just does it with far more style and panache, and is far more effective.

Spot on.

 

[jb03]

bleedin obvious yes mld. as for calling bracks, dodgey as well. Improper process. It stinks. Just like the time he ALLEGEDLY upped his tender for the casino after just happening to attend a barbe at JK's place. But they never discussed the casino of course.

Walker is exactly like Burke, just does it with far more style and panache, and is far more effective.

Comparing Walker to Burke is just plain silly Snake.