Talking Politics

[MD Jazz]

OK, so what determines with a gain is income or capital? The length of time you hold a stock? <12months it's income, >12 months it's CG?

With Shares, it is part self-assessment and part what your trading patterns show. ie if you buy 10 stocks and sell one in 6 months later but still hold nine you are not really a "trader". You are more deemed an investor.

If you buy and sell daily that activity indicates you are a trader and doing it for income. The volume of trade and the intention at the time of purchase are important. You can be both - you may trade some shares but others you buy for long-term investment.

The tax system is all self-assessment so you can sort of pick and choose. But the pattern of trading itself almost decides it for you.

 

[Sintiger]

It's an insidious tax and a ridiculous cost on business. Why should I pay additional tax for the "privilege" of hiring someone? It's ridiculous and your reasoning for it is pathetic.

To me there are a couple of things about payroll tax .

In itself it is not a fair tax. Why should a business that has lots of employment costs pay so much of it when a business that is capital intensive incurs less of a cost? I just don’t like a tax that disincentivises the very thing we want to encourage, employing people.

However it is a state tax and in the end if we didn’t have payroll tax it would need to be replaced by something else. Most state taxes have a level of unfairness, I don’t like many aspects of stamp duty either.

What do we replace it with? It’s not easy.

 

[frickenel]

Markets tanking, then on comes Jeremy Powell with an over positive press conference during an election cycle and you get a massive green bar spike in the SP500.

That anyone can possibly believe the positivespin on what is goingon today is completely laughable. As i watch now, the sugar hit looks like it's already finished and the SP500 and QQQ's are heading south again.

Migt finish this post, and jump back into a few shorttrqades and enjoy the ride !

 

[Sintiger]

If you increase GSt which should occur then increase the tax free threshold. Too many tax arguments isolate one tax and argue why it can’t / should be increased.

That’s what happened when GST was introduced, income tax rates reduced.

Consumption taxes are to me the most efficient way to collect taxes but you are right they have to be matched with income tax relief, especially for lower income earners who are affected the most. Also social security benefits need to be increased. My concern with it is self funded retirees living off capital who would have the same income (as they may not be income tax payers and many don’t receive government pensions) but have their cost of living increased.

 

[Ian4]

Victorian housing market is cooling faster than all of the other states.

The media is predictably spinning it as a bad thing for investors.

But the real truth (that people don't want to admit to) is that decisions made by the state government (ie. Taxes) is actually working in the way it was intended.

I would imagine the campaign started by Airbnb last week isn't gonna end very well for them.

As for the GST, the GST is just another tax on the poor. When you're paying taxes on what you buy instead of what you earn, the biggest losers are the poor, because you're forced to pay tax on essentials you cannot live without.

 

[DavidSSS]

Hope housing prices drop a fair way, housing is overpriced in Australia and it is the major contributor to private debt which does none of us any good.

Build heaps of public housing, get rid of negative gearing and get rid of the capital gains tax discount and we might start to sort the problem.

DS

 

[IanG]

Victorian housing market is cooling faster than all of the other states.

The media is predictably spinning it as a bad thing for investors.

The media are so hypocritical on this issue. They spin reducing or plateauing house prices as a bad thing but then they turn around and spin the lack of affordability as bad as well.

 

[eZyT]

Hope housing prices drop a fair way, housing is overpriced in Australia and it is the major contributor to private debt which does none of us any good.

Build heaps of public housing, get rid of negative gearing and get rid of the capital gains tax discount and we might start to sort the problem.

DS

the only problem with house prices dropping 50%,

is it will be the young cop it in the neck.

people with a $1m mortgage on a $1.2m suburban house

suddenly have a $1m mortgage on a $600K house.

whereas Boomers and Gen X'ers own two house worth $2m debt free,

just own two houses worth $1m debt free

 

[DavidSSS]

the only problem with house prices dropping 50%,

is it will be the young cop it in the neck.

people with a $1m mortgage on a $1.2m suburban house

suddenly have a $1m mortgage on a $600K house.

whereas Boomers and Gen X'ers own two house worth $2m debt free,

just own two houses worth $1m debt free

This is a problem and I would support some level of support if it went that far. This has always been the problem with over-inflated house prices, they have a tendency to fall (not so far in Aus, but they certainly fell in the USA back in the GFC). The thing is, and I actually said this to my daughter recently as she is thinking of trying to buy a dwelling, if you paid a price that you think was reasonable at the time then you cop it if the value falls. Less of an issue if you are buying to live in it as you calculate the repayments and the actual current market value is not relevant, more the fact you would be pissed off as you might have got it for less later on.

By the way - where did you get the 50% figure from? Wasn't in my post. Can't see it going down that far, but capitalist markets do strange things.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

the only problem with house prices dropping 50%,

is it will be the young cop it in the neck.

people with a $1m mortgage on a $1.2m suburban house

suddenly have a $1m mortgage on a $600K house.

whereas Boomers and Gen X'ers own two house worth $2m debt free,

just own two houses worth $1m debt free

Don’t know about the 50% but the danger is what happened in the US which was some handed the keys back to the mortgage holder.
Banks were left with security worth less than the loan and had big write offs
In the end big economic adjustments are best if they are gradual. The ideal scenario is a stabilisation of prices over an extended period of time.
Of course state budgets would suffer as they are now heavily reliant on ever increasing stamp duties on property sales.

 

[eZyT]

This is a problem and I would support some level of support if it went that far. This has always been the problem with over-inflated house prices, they have a tendency to fall (not so far in Aus, but they certainly fell in the USA back in the GFC). The thing is, and I actually said this to my daughter recently as she is thinking of trying to buy a dwelling, if you paid a price that you think was reasonable at the time then you cop it if the value falls. Less of an issue if you are buying to live in it as you calculate the repayments and the actual current market value is not relevant, more the fact you would be pissed off as you might have got it for less later on.

By the way - where did you get the 50% figure from? Wasn't in my post. Can't see it going down that far, but capitalist markets do strange things.

DS

yeah I pulled 50% out of air and is unrealistic and also very relative and abstract.

for example, my area has 'dropped' 25% since the bizarre feeding frenzy of Covid, where it rose 60%.

so the drop isn't 25%, it a 35% rise over 4 years

 

[Sintiger]

for example, my area has 'dropped' 25% since the bizarre feeding frenzy of Covid, where it rose 60%.

so the drop isn't 25%, it a 35% rise over 4 years

Actually it isn't (sorry for the lesson in arithmetic)

If it went up 60% and then dropped 25% it is a 20% rise in 4 years (1.0 x1.6) x 0.75 = 1.2 which is probably about average

 

[MD Jazz]

yeah I pulled 50% out of air and is unrealistic and also very relative and abstract.

for example, my area has 'dropped' 25% since the bizarre feeding frenzy of Covid, where it rose 60%.

so the drop isn't 25%, it a 35% rise over 4 years

Yeh, it comes back in small increments but rises in much larger ones.

And agree, it is those younger people with a large mortgage taken out at 2% rates that would already be battling with the 5-6% current rate. Any significant fall in value leaves them back to square one.

I get sick of hearing people with 3-4 properties complaining about their land tax bill. Often they own them outright and whinge that they do not have the funds to pay the land tax. Sometimes these properties are vacant. Feel really sorry for them.

Many boomers either purchased or inherited at a time when average prices were 3-4 times ave earnings. They think of themselves as some sort of Buffet type geinuses. They simply had fortunate timing.

Something has to be done, home ownership should be available to anyone with a job. It ain't.

 

[MD Jazz]

Actually it isn't (sorry for the lesson in arithmetic)

If it went up 60% and then dropped 25% it is a 20% rise in 4 years (1.0 x1.6) x 0.75 = 1.2 which is probably about average

Unfortunately the average annual rise has outpaced the average annual income rise

 

[Sintiger]

They think of themselves as some sort of Buffet type geinuses.

I am a genius at the buffet. I always get my moneys worth

 

[Tigaman]

WA Premier Roger (The Dodger) Cook latest initiative which in his words is "my Goverment are committed to bust the Inflation bubble '" is that We will give the WA people $6 million free tickets of WA tax payers money to visit the WA Zoo ". It was not only Cook who applauded this initiative but all the residents of Peppy Grove, Cotts Claremont in their mortage free multi million home are besides themselves. Now most of the remainder of WA residents who are doing it tough from you know what cannot take up this generous offer as they cannot afford petrol parking tickets or public transport cost to get to the Zoo where you & your Cabinet should domiciled. How do these peanuts get into Parliament.

 

[tigerman]

WA Premier Roger (The Dodger) Cook latest initiative which in his words is "my Goverment are committed to bust the Inflation bubble '" is that We will give the WA people $6 million free tickets of WA tax payers money to visit the WA Zoo ". It was not only Cook who applauded this initiative but all the residents of Peppy Grove, Cotts Claremont in their mortage free multi million home are besides themselves. Now most of the remainder of WA residents who are doing it tough from you know what cannot take up this generous offer as they cannot afford petrol parking tickets or public transport cost to get to the Zoo where you & your Cabinet should domiciled. How do these peanuts get into Parliament.

Sorry to disappoint you, part of the deal is free public transport.

 

[Tigaman]

Sorry to disappoint you, part of the deal is free public transport.

Where does it say that ?.

 

[tigerman]

Where does it say that ?.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/free-perth-zoo-ticktes/748a5520-0053-4526-bfe3-4a1b7d2407cb
West Australian families can claim four free Perth Zoo passes this spring as part of a new initiative by the state government.
The tickets, which will save families up to $100, can be claimed via the ServiceWA app.
They must be used between September 9 and November 30, and also include free public transport.

How to get your free Perth Zoo tickets

West Australian families can claim four free Perth Zoo passes this spring as part of a new initiative by th...

www.9news.com.au

 

[DavidSSS]

Don’t know about the 50% but the danger is what happened in the US which was some handed the keys back to the mortgage holder.
Banks were left with security worth less than the loan and had big write offs
In the end big economic adjustments are best if they are gradual. The ideal scenario is a stabilisation of prices over an extended period of time.
Of course state budgets would suffer as they are now heavily reliant on ever increasing stamp duties on property sales.

Agree that adjustments need to be gradual but have to pull you up on the mortgage defaults. In most US States you can walk away from the mortgage and the bank gets your house, and nothing else. This is not the case in Australia. If you walk away from a mortgage, the bank gets your house, sells it and puts the proceeds toward the mortgage (and no doubt adds some hefty fees) and anything left you are still liable for. Quite different here. One other big difference in the USA is most mortgages are at a set rate (not variable), which is why interest rates have a bigger impact here - in the USA they only affect new loans.

I get sick of hearing people with 3-4 properties complaining about their land tax bill. Often they own them outright and whinge that they do not have the funds to pay the land tax. Sometimes these properties are vacant. Feel really sorry for them.

Many boomers either purchased or inherited at a time when average prices were 3-4 times ave earnings. They think of themselves as some sort of Buffet type geinuses. They simply had fortunate timing.

Something has to be done, home ownership should be available to anyone with a job. It ain't.

Yep, if you can't afford the land tax on a property which is not the principle place of residence you can go get *smile* as far as I am concerned. I would make land tax on investment properties huge, force the price of housing down. While we're at it, the state can buy the houses those with investment properties have to sell and turn them into public housing.

We own our house, not because of any special skill, but because we bought it 30 years ago. The only way for the youth of today to afford a house is to get a tardis.

DS