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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
Probably, but Dan's not Premier anymore. Nothing much he can do about it now. She's the Premier, she's the head of the Vic ALP. She's accountable now.
As minster for Transport (SLR) and Infrastructure pretty obvious she had daily interactions with or about unions.
Funny the East West link got vetoed and wasn’t a union job.
So your claim is that East/West was vetoed because it wasn't a union job? Bold
If you work for a living and don't join the union you have rocks in your head. Yes, there are some corrupt officials (apparently bribed by salt of the Earth, clean as a whistle employers) and some morons in unions too. But unions are still there to protect wages and conditions along with a lot of other things.
What people don't seem to understand is how many years of work it takes to organise in a union. I remember the HSU kerfuffle and I knew some people who were organising against the leadership for many years, it is not easy, I know, I was involved in a reform ticket many years ago in a union.
As for the ALP being run by unions, believe me it is quite the other way around. ALP hacks finish uni and get nice jobs in ALP affiliated unions before their political career gets going. As far as I am concerned the unions should run as far away from the ALP as possible, The last union I was a member of I would have gone apeshit if they tried to affiliate to the ALP.
DS
What people don't seem to understand is how many years of work it takes to organise in a union. I remember the HSU kerfuffle and I knew some people who were organising against the leadership for many years, it is not easy, I know, I was involved in a reform ticket many years ago in a union.
As for the ALP being run by unions, believe me it is quite the other way around. ALP hacks finish uni and get nice jobs in ALP affiliated unions before their political career gets going. As far as I am concerned the unions should run as far away from the ALP as possible, The last union I was a member of I would have gone apeshit if they tried to affiliate to the ALP.
DS
Don't think you and I are going totally agree on this David, my experience with unions colours my view. However, I have been of the view for a long time that for us to have a true social democratic party in this country the ALP has to split from its current form.
It is true that many unions are not ALP affiliated and it is undoubtedly true that there are good unions, the problem for me is that I haven't personally seen any in my career, in the last 10-12 years anyway.
The ALP earns a large part of their funding from Union affiliation fees, I have heard as much as 70%. The union movement automatically has 50% of the delegates at national conference which is where policy is debated and to some extent decided. I can't see how that arrangement can lead to any other conclusion than unions having an enormous say in the ALP.
I have had this debate with others on this site but to me there are reasons that union membership is now so low in Australia. There are some who say it is because of years of Tory governments and anti union policies and that has probably played some part but to me it is because many unions themselves have lost their way.
I could never understand how I and others who I have worked with could be seen as the enemy of the unions we dealt with when overwhelmingly we were far more affiliated philosophically with a social democracy view of the world, but so many of them just see employer = evil. So many of my interactions have not been about pay, conditions and safety they have just been about showing the employer who has the power.
Thing is, I care more about unions than the ALP. I have seen way too many unions stacked full of ALP apparatchiks in leadership positions and employed by said unions. This compromises the unions. Yes, in theory, unions have a fair bit of power in the ALP, so they have delegates at National Conference and the like. Delegates like Bill Shorten when he was a union official who had never worked in the industry and was a lifelong ALP member. There are many like this - they are union officials because of their ALP membership and then they become "union" delegates to ALP National Council.
There are many reasons for the lower union membership, a more dispersed workforce is a big one and unions not doing enough organising amongst less secure workers and in new industries. Organising large factories was much easier than organising lots of small workplaces and gig workers are very hard to organise - takes a lot of time and resources. But, the unions should be better at this. Even the union I was until recently a member of (the NTEU - not affiliated to the ALP) does not do enough to recruit casual workers in higher ed of which there are so many these days, although there have been some good moves to recruit casuals. One of the problems is membership dominated by existing permanent employees who then object to things like very low union dues for casuals. There are a lot of issues, some in control of the unions, some not in the control of unions. For all the faults of unions like the CFMEU, can you imagine the working conditions on building sites if the building workers didn't have a strong union?
The ALP was set up by the unions, they founded it, so not surprising that unions have a fair amount of representation in the ALP (it is also true that in a fair number of unions you won't get into the leadership or get a job in the union unless you are an ALP member). Add to this that affiliated unions do have a lot of members - political parties in Australia struggle for members, both the ALP and Libs would be lucky to have 10,000 each in Victoria, The Greens and Nats do better on membership numbers - and you have a problem as the number of members of affiliated unions would outnumber the party members quite substantially.
DS
There are many reasons for the lower union membership, a more dispersed workforce is a big one and unions not doing enough organising amongst less secure workers and in new industries. Organising large factories was much easier than organising lots of small workplaces and gig workers are very hard to organise - takes a lot of time and resources. But, the unions should be better at this. Even the union I was until recently a member of (the NTEU - not affiliated to the ALP) does not do enough to recruit casual workers in higher ed of which there are so many these days, although there have been some good moves to recruit casuals. One of the problems is membership dominated by existing permanent employees who then object to things like very low union dues for casuals. There are a lot of issues, some in control of the unions, some not in the control of unions. For all the faults of unions like the CFMEU, can you imagine the working conditions on building sites if the building workers didn't have a strong union?
The ALP was set up by the unions, they founded it, so not surprising that unions have a fair amount of representation in the ALP (it is also true that in a fair number of unions you won't get into the leadership or get a job in the union unless you are an ALP member). Add to this that affiliated unions do have a lot of members - political parties in Australia struggle for members, both the ALP and Libs would be lucky to have 10,000 each in Victoria, The Greens and Nats do better on membership numbers - and you have a problem as the number of members of affiliated unions would outnumber the party members quite substantially.
DS
Just a strange fact isn't it? Nothing odd about that at all.
Victoria Labor are blessed the mob on the other side is just as bad and couldn't hit sand falling off a camel.
Last three days have shown vic Labour knew of a culture of bullying that has cost lives, and millions, maybe billions of extra dollars from taxpayers and done nothing to stop it because it served them. Labor love to talk of how the Libs serve big business only, how is this any different?
As I do not have much to during my Octogenarian years I filled in some time by writing to the ATO ,The Treasurer , Opposition Treasurer & my local Member on how my Tax situation has gone from a Return then two years later I owe $2909.00. First letter posted to ATO 16 July 2024 the rest 02 August 2024.
I have seen some kerrap on the political stage over the years but this defamation case Reynolds/Higgins takes the cake. The Minister had a bad day at the office & was on the verge of exiting this planet due to it. Not a fan of Higgins but then hopes she wins the case. If the case goes against Reynolds how is she going to cope.
Bad move by Reynolds, defamation cases are a real crap shoot, you never know what will come out and it is all public.
DS
I don’t get how a few tweets is a coordinated campaign to take her and the government down. Higgins has said she didn’t get the appropriate support and Morison came out yesterday and said the support mechanisms that were there weren’t good enough so they have been fixed. Seems an admission of failure of parliamentary processes. Anyway I don’t follow it that closely but seems a tremendous waste of time and money for overpaid lawyers.
Yes it is
I’m also not sure how she can “win” this in the court of public opinion. If she wins the case she will be seen as the person who sued the rape victim.
Dutton doesn't want people fleeing Palestine to be allowed to come to Australia, but when he was Immigration minister in the Turnbull government he was happy for Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their civil wars to come to Australia as refugees........
"Australia's immigration minister has rejected a call by an MP to close its borders to refugees from the Middle East, in the wake of the Paris attacks.
Andrew Fraser, a conservative MP, made the call on Facebook.
"Message to Malcolm Turnbull: Australia does not need Middle Eastern refugees or Islamic boat people," he wrote.
But Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said Australia would not back away from a decision to accept 12,000 refugees from Syria and Iraq."
"Australia's immigration minister has rejected a call by an MP to close its borders to refugees from the Middle East, in the wake of the Paris attacks.
Andrew Fraser, a conservative MP, made the call on Facebook.
"Message to Malcolm Turnbull: Australia does not need Middle Eastern refugees or Islamic boat people," he wrote.
But Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said Australia would not back away from a decision to accept 12,000 refugees from Syria and Iraq."
Australia minister Peter Dutton rejects MP's call for Middle East refugee ban
Australia's immigration minister rejects a politician's call to close the country's borders to refugees from the Middle East.
www.bbc.com
Isn't the issue about the lack of even the basic security checks on the refuges from Palestine this time around?Dutton doesn't want people fleeing Palestine to be allowed to come to Australia, but when he was Immigration minister in the Turnbull government he was happy for Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their civil wars to come to Australia as refugees........
"Australia's immigration minister has rejected a call by an MP to close its borders to refugees from the Middle East, in the wake of the Paris attacks.
Andrew Fraser, a conservative MP, made the call on Facebook.
"Message to Malcolm Turnbull: Australia does not need Middle Eastern refugees or Islamic boat people," he wrote.
But Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said Australia would not back away from a decision to accept 12,000 refugees from Syria and Iraq."
Australia minister Peter Dutton rejects MP's call for Middle East refugee ban
Australia's immigration minister rejects a politician's call to close the country's borders to refugees from the Middle East.www.bbc.com
especially when you're a member of the free speech party.
what they really mean is;
free speech for the powerful, user pays speech for the victim.
literally
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