Sam Lloyd

[Barnzy]

Feeling vindicated by his play. One I stuck up for when he was in and out of the team (Hardwick preferred Gordon, Newman and Morris forward forward), subbed a lot and many said he wasn't up to it. Been one of our most consistent performers and one of only a handful improvers finally with some opportunity.

 

[tigertim]

I said over the summer that IF Sam played a whole season he'd kick 30 goals.

11 from 5 games so far.

 

[zippadeee]

Matty Rogers part 2

 

[evo]

I said over the summer that IF Sam played a whole season he'd kick 30 goals.

11 from 5 games so far.

yep, 2 a game for the whole season would be a fantastic return. Long may it continue. I'm a fan.

 

[Leysy Days]

What I said was, I think, when he is in the middle he looks like a suburban footballer, when he is in the fwd line he looks like Mark LeCras. I still think that, but I'm a fan. I was shocked when he missed that snap last week.

(and even though our bargain-bin stategy hasn't worked overall, it got us Lloyd at least).

Sammy aint bargain bin Snake. Poles apart.

He's exactly the type you target late in drafts. Talented footballer who took a while to take the game seriously.

Unlike our re-treds like Moore and many many countless others Lloyd is massively unexposed.

Had and still has scope.

 

[tigersnake]

Sammy aint bargain bin Snake. Poles apart.

He's exactly the type you target late in drafts. Talented footballer who took a while to take the game seriously.

Unlike our re-treds like Moore and many many countless others Lloyd is massively unexposed.

Had and still has scope.

I take your point, but he's still bargain bin. Smart bargain bin I agree, but still Bargain bin. 23 or 4yo? draft pick after 50? BB city

 

[Leysy Days]

Bargain bin maybe. But he's not near the same strategy as picking up a re-tred that's been in the system for years.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I take your point, but he's still bargain bin. Smart bargain bin I agree, but still Bargain bin. 23 or 4yo? draft pick after 50? BB city

Lambert and Marcon similar strategy (jury will be out for a while, but both look like they may be OK, Lambert has shown phases of brilliance). As was Jake King (sure he had limitations, but had a relatively solid career). All early 20s that hadn't got a shot as teenagers.

But then so were Relton Roberts, Ben Nason and Jeromey Webberly. None of which were close to AFL footballers. That said, this was in the height of the compromised draft era, where you really were scraping the barrel in those late picks to fill a list. Particularly in the case of RFC whom were the only club dumb enough to do a complete rebuild in that period.

 

[Barnzy]

Lambert and Marcon similar strategy (jury will be out for a while, but both look like they may be OK, Lambert has shown phases of brilliance). As was Jake King (sure he had limitations, but had a relatively solid career). All early 20s that hadn't got a shot as teenagers.

But then so were Relton Roberts, Ben Nason and Jeromey Webberly. None of which were close to AFL footballers. That said, this was in the height of the compromised draft era, where you really were scraping the barrel in those late picks to fill a list. Particularly in the case of RFC whom were the only club dumb enough to do a complete rebuild in that period.

The difference between the Roberts, Nason, Webberly types and Lloyd, Marcon, Lambert types is the former were not that impressive at lower levels. We were trying to be too smart for our own good hoping they had this mystery upside. The latter dominated at lower levels consistently.

This concept Richmond has failed to grasp, even with the juniors we recruit. Instead of taking what's obvious and staring us right in the face, we outsmart ourselves and hide behind trees thinking we've fooled the whole competition when we've only fooled ourselves.

 

[Leysy Days]

Lambert and Marcon similar strategy (jury will be out for a while, but both look like they may be OK, Lambert has shown phases of brilliance). As was Jake King (sure he had limitations, but had a relatively solid career). All early 20s that hadn't got a shot as teenagers.

But then so were Relton Roberts, Ben Nason and Jeromey Webberly. None of which were close to AFL footballers. That said, this was in the height of the compromised draft era, where you really were scraping the barrel in those late picks to fill a list. Particularly in the case of RFC whom were the only club dumb enough to do a complete rebuild in that period.

Relton Roberts was drafted from the NT League, Webberley from the Tas league and Ben Nason from Central Districts reserves.

Hardly high achievers when it comes to state league talent across the country.

They were also all taken in the 2009 draft which was not compromised.

Your excuse for taking the above on the reasons you outline is completely false sorry PT.

 

[dusty delivers]

Bargain bin maybe. But he's not near the same strategy as picking up a re-tred that's been in the system for years.

And been dedicated and show sweet fa. Ala Moore & Townsend. Tried hard all their careers but limited footballers.

 

[dusty delivers]

Sammy Lloyd oozes goal kicking talent. Townsend oozes effort. But little else.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

The difference between the Roberts, Nason, Webberly types and Lloyd, Marcon, Lambert types is the former were not that impressive at lower levels. We were trying to be too smart for our own good hoping they had this mystery upside. The latter dominated at lower levels consistently.

This concept Richmond has failed to grasp, even with the juniors we recruit. Instead of taking what's obvious and staring us right in the face, we outsmart ourselves and hide behind trees thinking we've fooled the whole competition when we've only fooled ourselves.

Seems they are getting better at it though Barnzy. As we say Lambert, Marcon, Lloyd, far better picks than the Nason, Webberly, Roberts days. I would argue though, had the compromised draft not been in place, it is doubtful whether the barrel would have been scraped right down to guys of the Roberts, Webberly, Nason variety.

That all said, Morris is also from the same path and is looking not quite up to it. And the feedback by those that watch the 2nds seems to be that Broad is struggling a bit at this early stage.

 

[Ghost of 29]

I take your point, but he's still bargain bin. Smart bargain bin I agree, but still Bargain bin. 23 or 4yo? draft pick after 50? BB city

The 2013 draft was widely considered to the weakest draft the past 10 years and the record low number of u/18 kids taken that year verified that.

I reckon Sam still has massive room for improvement mainly through improving his fitness further. All experts say it takes 3 preseasons to get truely afl fit, Sam has only had 2 full preseasons.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Relton Roberts was drafted from the NT League, Webberley from the Tas league and Ben Nason from Central Districts reserves.

Hardly high achievers when it comes to state league talent across the country.

They were also all taken in the 2009 draft which was not compromised.

Your excuse for taking the above on the reasons you outline is completely false sorry PT.

I stand corrected Leysy, was thinking it may have been 2010. 2009 was the last year before compromised drafts and was the year we took DM at no.3. That said, I do recall the commentary around it stating that it was a very shallow draft outside the top couple of rounds - hence why I associated it with the compromised era.

But having gutted the list to rebuild, I suppose you have no choice but to use picks deep in the draft to fill a list. I maintain, dumb strategy when it was no secret shallow drafts were coming. Should have bitten the bullet two years earlier. If you look at the later rounds of that draft, indeed it was shallow.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over whom was taken around or just after Webberly and Nason, there really was bugger all there. Most clubs were passing or upgrading rookies (some pretty solid rookie upgrades). Just a shocking time to cut back a list where you're forced to use those deep picks. Not like you're allowed to leave those spots on your list vacant because there is bugger all quality left in the draft to choose from. This is the only way blokes like this, that were far from AFL standard, got a run.

Of interest. Gee whizz Port had a Barry in that draft. Picks 8 & 9. Picked up Butcher and Andrew Moore.

 

[Leysy Days]

All good mate.

Hawthorn though went the state league route with the correct thought process that draft at pick 46 (two picks after Dea at 44).

Drafted a guy who had just completed his first season at WAFL. Played every game and best first year player for East Perth.

Then played 21 senior games in his first AFL season.

Ben Stratton. Gun defender.

They also took Taylor Duryea the pick after we drafted Webberley.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

All good mate.

Hawthorn though went the state league route with the correct thought process that draft at pick 46 (two picks after Dea at 44).

Drafted a guy who had just completed his first season at WAFL. Played every game and best first year player for East Perth.

Then played 21 senior games in his first AFL season.

Ben Stratton. Gun defender.

They also took Taylor Duryea the pick after we drafted Webberley.

Hence why I think the club has got better at it. Lambert and Marcon a no brainer as rookies. Consistent performers at state league level that stand out as deserving a shot. Many observers were surprised Lambert slipped through to the rookie draft. Broad however it seems many 2nds observers are yet to be convinced on.

 

[Leysy Days]

Issue is PT, why could so many pundits on a bloody website see what we were doing wrong with out state league recruits yet our paid professionals took near a decade to click on.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Issue is PT, why could so many pundits on a bloody website see what we were doing wrong with out state league recruits yet our paid professionals took near a decade to click on.

As I say, I think picks as speculative as Nason, Webberly and Nason were also highly influenced by circumstance (as outlined in my previous post). I can't think of any other years where our late picks were quite out there as much as that. As much as Morris is maligned, he is closer to AFL standard than these blokes. And Jake King was largely a success. All the *smile* uttered at the time by RFC officials pumping up the tires of these blokes was spin and PR. Not like they can come out and say, "Well we still had three places to fill on the list, so had no choice but to scrape the bottom of the sh!t barrel" . I reckon they had a fair idea these guys were highly speculative pics. The fact that most clubs were passing at that stage tells you what they were thinking of that draft - Duryea (a solid player, not a star) and Ben Howlett (taken in the rookie draft) being the big exceptions that many other clubs didn't identify either.

On Nason. Thinking about it. I find it peculiar that a 20-21YO bloke playing SANFL ressies would even nominate for the draft. What was it, a bet over a couple of beers after training that he could get drafted?

 

[Dyer'ere]

What I said was, I think, when he is in the middle he looks like a suburban footballer, when he is in the fwd line he looks like Mark LeCras. I still think that, but I'm a fan. I was shocked when he missed that snap last week.

(and even though our bargain-bin stategy hasn't worked overall, it got us Lloyd at least).

I'm not having a go at ya, snake. I'm pretty sure I agreed at the time.