-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Sam Lloyd
- Thread starter puregreen
- Start date
Carter said:
Ty kicked 3 goals, 4 goals and 3 goals in his 3 VFL games this year.
Not just consistent, but consistently good. Meanwhile, I'm not sure Griff has ever kicked 4 goals at VFL level.
Carter said:
That argument has the same fallacy as the 'Beanie hasn't done as much as the others at AFL level' one.
I'm not just randomly picking three games, those are all the games he's played at VFL level last year. Fact is, he went back to the lower level and was consistent for a month. I'm not sure about your issue with Ty. First you say he's never performed at the top level, then you say he's never been consistent at the lower level. Two statements clearly untrue.
No doubt, Vickery still has a lot of deficiencies to work on, but he doesn't need you fabricating objectively false ones. In any case, he's doing enough to be an extremely valuable player for us, despite the fact that he could do more.
Coburgtiger said:
Vickery has played many more VFL games than Liam has AFL games. And done not much.
Coburgtiger said:
He hasn't performed. Unless you mean a handful of games. Deja vu, I think we've been over this before.
Coburgtiger said:
Disagree. He doesn't have many deficiencies at all. Playing without heart and intensity is, alas, a rather big one.
Coburgtiger said:
Last I checked we haven't won our 11th flag. We cannot afford to carry players who go sooking as soon as their opponent blocks them from the first air ball of the day.
Dimma has dropped him before. Yep - the guy who can see no wrong in his senior players. Ty either shapes up in the mental stakes or he ships out.
Carter said:
Whats that thing where people mention the Nazis in an argument and its over? This is the equivalent in a footy argument. Where do you go from there?
Just had a look at some 2014 stats, Griffo replaced TY after he decked Cox, he played the remaining six games and kicked 6 goals, which gave him 12 goals for the 16 games he played that season.
In Ty's last six games before getting suspended he kicked 13 goals, and kicked 23 goals from 12 games played for the season.
Ty went on in 2015 to confirm that he should have come straight back into the side after his suspension by kicking 31 goals from 15 games, compared to Griffiths 12 goals from 13 games.
Make or break season for Griffiths Ruck or bust for mine.
In Ty's last six games before getting suspended he kicked 13 goals, and kicked 23 goals from 12 games played for the season.
Ty went on in 2015 to confirm that he should have come straight back into the side after his suspension by kicking 31 goals from 15 games, compared to Griffiths 12 goals from 13 games.
Make or break season for Griffiths Ruck or bust for mine.
It's hardly that simple e.g. did TV spend more time forward ; Griff more in the ruck? When forward was Griff playing high - CHF, TV deep and closer to goal?
Plus Vickery has played double the number of games and is almost 1.5 years older. He should be more advanced than Griffiths, who generally covers more ground IMV.
I, for one, love the fact that we have 3 power forwards with a lot of improvement to potentially develop. Along with the Bean and Mckenzie to come along too.
Sure beats the sad old days of relying on one KF before with Richo, then Jack.
A lot of teams would love to have the threat that these guys are going to pose - they're all young. Only Jack has hit his prime. ENJOY!
Plus Vickery has played double the number of games and is almost 1.5 years older. He should be more advanced than Griffiths, who generally covers more ground IMV.
I, for one, love the fact that we have 3 power forwards with a lot of improvement to potentially develop. Along with the Bean and Mckenzie to come along too.
Sure beats the sad old days of relying on one KF before with Richo, then Jack.
A lot of teams would love to have the threat that these guys are going to pose - they're all young. Only Jack has hit his prime. ENJOY!
Carter said:
Vickery has done more in the AFL than McBean, and did more in the VFL when he went back there this year. But that's irrelevant, that's the point. I'm the first to say that McBean has played waaay too much VFL, but the outcome of that, is that he's going to have a more impressive VFL portfolio than Vickery, over the last three years. Pretty simple logic. You can't compare McBean's AFL form to Vickery's, or Vickery's VFL form to McBeans. It's stupid.
Carter said:
Riiight, the "he hasn't performed, unless you include the games he has performed". Can't argue with that.
Carter said:
Well. Playing without Heart is a made up Carter intangible. I think he plays with lots of heart. And lots of head. I think his deficiencies are: Concentration, reaction after a contest, running toward goal rather than away from it at times, repeat running. Those are some of things he needs to work on.
Carter said:
Tigersnake's covered this one. I guess Cotchin, Riewoldt, Rance, Deledio are also players we can't afford to carry seeing we haven't won 11 flags with them either.
Carter said:
Is Dimma too forgiving or not forgiving enough? He's blind, but clearly sees Tyrone had some deficiencies to work on? Dimma's an idiot for not dropping anyone, but Tyrone's terrible for getting dropped by Dimma.
Who are you having a go at here? Dimma clearly managed it well, and Tyrone clearly responded well. As far as I can make out here, you tried to take potshots at too many of your whipping boys at once, and proving their mutual success.
Coburgtiger said:
None of this addresses my points though. You have created a series of witty responses that are, whilst entertaining, skin deep.
What is your definition of performance at AFL level?
A few bags (hint - Vickery)?
Or consistency (hint - Riewoldt)?
No one expects him to be Jack but he needs to be much better than he has been.
Vickery has underachieved in his career thus far.
No amount of evasion on your part can change that football fact.
Also if you think 'playing with heart' is a useless intangible then you need to take the lab coat off and watch some footy Burger :hihi
Carter said:
Vickery has underacheived by what measure? By not being Riewoldt?
Or by his own potential?
I kind of understand the argument that Vickery could have been better than he has been based on his natural ability. But wow. Is that what we are going to hang him on?
Vickery has been our second best forward over the last 5 years. And probably our second best ruckman too. Though that's a harder measure. And on top of those actual football facts (which, in all honesty, are still opinions as are your football facts) Vickery's trajectory has been consistently up. He continues to improve. I see no reason for that to stop. So he is a proven performing player, important to our structure, who supports our star forward, and has upside. I don't see the need to keep hating. He probably could have been better. He may yet be.
So, Sam Lloyd hey? He'll probably be delisted at the end of his contract.
<
Stengle
|
Neil Kerley
>
