Ruthless or reluctant? Time for the club to choose

[Carter]

It's not that I don't rate him.

I don't think he has coached well.

I also don't think Hardwick coached well in 2016 (have you kept your pitchfork handy, but the way?) but he was and is a good coach.

I think if he is unable to change things, he will be under pressure.

I am also willing to forgive and wait out inexperience and circumstance. For a couple of years. Not complicated.

And you couldn’t be more wrong.

Yze is a first year coach squeezing the very most out of a list that is tired and jaded at the top end of the age range and conspicuously devoid of talent at the bottom end.

This, before we consider one of the worst injury lists many of us have seen at the club.

Despite all that, enough to scuttle any first year coach, several mug punters on here have spotted a litany of promising signs in what we are trying to achieve on field.

We are still competitive against the odds, deep in the campaign.

I call that admirable, even impressive resolve and I think it is entirely reasonable to do so.

Considering all off the above, you have chosen to consistently criticise the rookie coach and cast doubt over his future.

In complete fairness, this is also reasonable. It has been, and appears to remain, your position on Yze.

Just so we are clear on this issue.

 

[RoarEmotion]

you said 1-2 years.

you and Stiggers with pitchforks then if we sink like a stone next year

Stiggers will bring a nuke champ.

Or maybe a champ nuke.

 

[DuD_Delist]

Gee that 2019 was a good draft

1st rnd.More hits than misses which is a good sign.

 

[DuD_Delist]

Just for argument sake we trade those to be rumoured to be going.(Bakes/Rioli/Bolton/Lynch & Graham)
Our draft could end up like this:
1/.Jagga
7/.Reid(Rioli)
8/.Travaglia(Rioli)
9/.Hotton(Bolton)
13/.Shanahan(Bolton)
16/.Berry(Bris points)
17/.Sims/Fuall or Armstrong(Carl points).
23/.Lindsay(baker)

A 2nd rnd for Lynch and 3rd for Graham

Would fast track the list and completely give Yze his side too call his own.

 

[17]

I don't think the club is going to move on Bolton or Lynch.
I love Bakes and D.Rioli but if they and Graham decide to move on, I think that can set us up nicely.
I have long been of the view that the last six years of average recruiting has left us with an average list.
A few of our kids are simply not going to make it and others are triers but with limited ceilings.
We are understocked with talent and it is absolutely the time to be ruthless and literally go for broke in this draft.
We have draft pick flexibility and happily the clubs that want our players have the draft pick currency.
We simply must take advantage of this year.
Ruthless all the way.

 

[JoeGee]

To be fair I haven't read all of the post history, but I think a few posters are missing the sentiment of being 'ruthless'.

I don't suggest we go all North Melbourne, but having Balme come out in the media and being all warm and fuzzy isn't the right messaging for mine.

I'd prefer to be seeing "we acknowledge we are in a period of rebuild and are keeping our options open. If players aren't showing their commitment to the club during games and training, we will move them on".

Obviously it would never be that forthright, but it would be really refreshing.

 

[Carter]

To be fair I haven't read all of the post history, but I think a few posters are missing the sentiment of being 'ruthless'.

I don't suggest we go all North Melbourne, but having Balme come out in the media and being all warm and fuzzy isn't the right messaging for mine.

I'd prefer to be seeing "we acknowledge we are in a period of rebuild and are keeping our options open. If players aren't showing their commitment to the club during games and training, we will move them on".

Obviously it would never be that forthright, but it would be really refreshing.

If we are genuinely looking to keep all players mentioned then as a member I would be disappointed.

I mean, do they know how bad the list is or is the cult of premiership still alive and well?

 

[Tigres Lima Hotel]

If we are genuinely looking to keep all players mentioned then as a member I would be disappointed.

I mean, do they know how bad the list is or is the cult of premiership still alive and well?

Plenty of muppets suggesting blokes are untouchable because they’re premiership players or JD Medallists… if the club takes a similar view we will be struggling to clear the dead wood for years

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Just for argument sake we trade those to be rumoured to be going.(Bakes/Rioli/Bolton/Lynch & Graham)
Our draft could end up like this:
1/.Jagga
7/.Reid(Rioli)
8/.Travaglia(Rioli)
9/.Hotton(Bolton)
13/.Shanahan(Bolton)
16/.Berry(Bris points)
17/.Sims/Fuall or Armstrong(Carl points).
23/.Lindsay(baker)

A 2nd rnd for Lynch and 3rd for Graham

Would fast track the list and completely give Yze his side too call his own.

So Baker would only get us #23, but you think a club would give us a 2nd rounder for Tom Lynch? I love Tommy, he’s a large part of why we won the Premiership in ‘19, but he’s played about 8 games in a season and a half. There’s no guarantee he’ll even see out his contract with us, and someone is going to give us a second rounder for him? And despite GC being stupid with their draft picks I can’t see them giving us 2 top 10 picks for Rioli.

 

[FitenFitenWin]

I have been a long time Bolton critic and wouldn't shed a tear if he was packaged up with whatever second or later round picks to get us a few more first rounders this year. If Baker decides to leave I'd do the same for him with some of next year's later picks. I'm not in favour of losing Dan Rioli.

My only stipulation is that if we lose experience then we must replace it with talent and leadership.

Having five or so first round picks this year in what is obviously a very deep and talented pool would be terrific.

I don't buy into the theory that loading up in one draft year is more risky than spreading the picks out over a number of years. It depends on the difference in talent between drafts. I would rather several goes at it in a deep and talented draft than getting the equivalent number of picks in subsequent drafts where the talent is thinner. And to suggest that you will meet the problem down the road that all those drafted in the one draft will retire at the same time just makes no sense. Players peak, age, get injured and traded at different rates and times with so many contingencies involved. It's just not a thing to worry about.

In short - let's get on with it. To my eye:

Jagga + Berry + Allan + J.Whitlock + Lindsay > Bolton + Baker + McIntosh + Koschitzke + Dow (or many other combos of our bottom of the list inhabitants which could be delisted to make room).

 

[ToraToraTora]

From what Ive seen Tobie Travaglia will struggle to kick it as well as Dan, but should cover him in every other aspect within a year or two.

 

[ToraToraTora]

And imagine injecting 4 walk up 18yo starters next year with pace class and/or muscle. It'll be an adrenaline shot to the eyeballs for the squad. Senior players will be holy *smile* this kid is awesome LFG.

 

[Baron Samedi]

It'll be an adrenaline shot to the eyeballs for the squad.

sure will.

i don't see a serious downside.

 

[Eric]

All good except the last paragraph.
Our 2016 list was brimming with first round A grade talent.
We are in a completely different scenario.
It's time to bottom out and cash in.
Trade our chips because our up and coming talent isn't 2016.

Perhaps but plenty said our 2016 list was full of battlers and unfulfilled potential at the time.

Gibcus, Brown, Balta, Bolton, Rioli were all early picks who have shown why (some more consistently than others). Add in Taranto and Hopper as early picks (just not taken by us) and that’s a good amount of high end talent to build around.

No one is delusional that our list is perfect or doesn’t have some large holes but throwing out the baby with the bath water has proven not to work

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Perhaps but plenty said our 2016 list was full of battlers and unfulfilled potential at the time.

Gibcus, Brown, Balta, Bolton, Rioli were all early picks who have shown why (some more consistently than others). Add in Taranto and Hopper as early picks (just not taken by us) and that’s a good amount of high end talent to build around.

No one is delusional that our list is perfect or doesn’t have some large holes but throwing out the baby with the bath water has proven not to work

Three of those ‘battlers’ were a Brownlow medallist, a dual Coleman medallist and a multiple AA defender, though.

 

[zgod]

Perhaps but plenty said our 2016 list was full of battlers and unfulfilled potential at the time.

Gibcus, Brown, Balta, Bolton, Rioli were all early picks who have shown why (some more consistently than others). Add in Taranto and Hopper as early picks (just not taken by us) and that’s a good amount of high end talent to build around.

No one is delusional that our list is perfect or doesn’t have some large holes but throwing out the baby with the bath water has proven not to work

Agree in part. But we had a generational defender, fwd, two blue chip midfielders.


I rate the ones you listed but will they take us to another tilt?

I would roll the dice on picking more elite talent in the draft.

 

[DuD_Delist]

So Baker would only get us #23, but you think a club would give us a 2nd rounder for Tom Lynch? I love Tommy, he’s a large part of why we won the Premiership in ‘19, but he’s played about 8 games in a season and a half. There’s no guarantee he’ll even see out his contract with us, and someone is going to give us a second rounder for him? And despite GC being stupid with their draft picks I can’t see them giving us 2 top 10 picks for Rioli.

A club like the dees who would have a late 2nd rnd for Lynch not out of the question.Suns are desperate for someone like Rioli.Baker well currently WC have 3 & 23 .They're not gonna give us 3 unless we give them a 1st back somewhere so atm a 2nd rnd is the only option.
Interesting times ahead i say.

 

[Brodders17]

And imagine injecting 4 walk up 18yo starters next year with pace class and/or muscle. It'll be an adrenaline shot to the eyeballs for the squad. Senior players will be holy *smile* this kid is awesome LFG.

Yes, the excitement of our senior players would only be rivaled by the excitement of senior North players losing alongside Wardlaw, McKercher, Duursma and Sheezel each week.

 

[Baron Samedi]

like what I'm hearing this week

Teague given marching orders (possibly mutual agreement)

Bolton told we're gonna trade him to Freo

Rumors of senior players being held to account (heavily encouraged by peers but instigated by coaches)

Ruthless at last?

 

[TigerForce]

like what I'm hearing this week

Teague given marching orders (possibly mutual agreement)

Bolton told we're gonna trade him to Freo

Rumors of senior players being held to account (heavily encouraged by peers but instigated by coaches)

Ruthless at last?

Definitely looks like it. *smile* I remember most on here arguing that we are/were too soft to clean out up to the Dimma years and accept mediocrity. Here is our best chance now to bottom out properly. Why carry players who realistically don't want to be there?