Ruthless or reluctant? Time for the club to choose

[Smoking Aces]

It’s also gonna have to be a damn good draft, because while we’ll get a good pick because we’re crap for the next few years we won’t have much, if anything, to trade out for other good picks.

If you talk about this years draft, then yes it’s deep.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

No guarantees these kids are any better.

But why would you keep anyone that doesn’t want to be there?

Have any of the players that were discussing here publicly said that they don’t want to be at Richmond? We’ve had media speculation, but the continual saga around Dusty for his entire career has shown how accurate that is.

 

[Coburgtiger]

No guarantees these kids are any better.

But why would you keep anyone that doesn’t want to be there?

That's a very different question.

We heard from both Rioli and Bolton earlier that they don't want to leave.

We don't know how that sits now, at least with any more reliability than we know Dusty is going to GC.

 

[pete and tys]

Well...what we have currently is a bottom 4 side for the next 5 years at least...and non contending for 10 years.
Do nothing and thats what we have.

We need to take this once in a generation chance and find the next Cotchin Deledio Riewolt Edwards and Houli ( or similar) NOW!
All 5 this draft. 2 more next year and another year on year plus trades.
It is the only way out of years of rubbish.

As written above..Rioli,Bolton,Baker Graham..are not taking us anywhere.

Let me repeat...we are 18th...dead last...rubbish...nothing positive on the horizon.
We have absolutely nothing to lose by throwing all chips in ..and we must.. this draft..right now.
Last last last and last is the alternative.
37 years of it!!!

It is very likely we will find several gun players in this draft...who will give us more than Bolton and Rioli and Baker and Graham over the next 10 years.
Key forwards and gun mids..

My father always said...desperate times call for desperate actions.
Now is the time to be bold.

PS. Cadman would be nice...but...Shanahan and Simms will cost us nothing!
Add Smith/Draper and Lalor/Langford..and Berry. And Gross or Urquart...we are away!!

 

[Smoking Aces]

That's a very different question.

We heard from both Rioli and Bolton earlier that they don't want to leave.

We don't know how that sits now, at least with any more reliability than we know Dusty is going to GC.

I am against the club tapping these blokes on the shoulder and trading them. That’s a recipe for disaster in terms of losing experience but also the potential to rip your culture apart.

However I will gladly open the door for them if they want out. Keeping them is no different to tapping them on the shoulder. They are contracted and we need to maximise their trade value. And I can guarantee you if these guys leave it won’t be the club who initiated it.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Have any of the players that were discussing here publicly said that they don’t want to be at Richmond? We’ve had media speculation, but the continual saga around Dusty for his entire career has shown how accurate that is.

No player publicly says it.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I am against the club tapping these blokes on the shoulder and trading them. That’s a recipe for disaster in terms of losing experience but also the potential to rip your culture apart.

However I will gladly open the door for them if they want out. Keeping them is no different to tapping them on the shoulder. They are contracted and we need to maximise their trade value. And I can guarantee you if these guys leave it won’t be the club who initiated it.

I'm not sure you can guarantee that.

Both Rioli, and Bolton's management were adamant not long ago that they had no desire to leave. If that has changed, and I don't know that it has, it would stand to reason that someone has tapped them on the shoulder.

 

[Smoking Aces]

I'm not sure you can guarantee that.

Both Rioli, and Bolton's management were adamant not long ago that they had no desire to leave. If that has changed, and I don't know that it has, it would stand to reason that someone has tapped them on the shoulder.

Club was also pretty strong in their statements that we are not trading them. I think it was Tim Livingstone.

 

[momentai]

We are anchored at the bottom of the ladder and those guys are playing.

But I get your point. For me it’s crucial we keep other leaders around for the next couple of years. Nank, Broad, Vlastuin, Prestia, Lynch. Then there is Taranto and Hopper.

If that core can remain in place then I am ok to go all out and get as much draft capital this year.

Including Lynch and Prestia in that group of players left who can provide leadership, is no better than a 5 to 1 shot.

Including Taranto and Hopper is also misleading as neither have the speed to keep up with the best mids in lets say, the top eight to ten teams.

In that situation losing Baker, Bolton, and Rioli in one hit is just too much imo, especially given the apparently even value of the top 4 or 5, in this draft, and then the next 6 together..
And the lack of any certainty in the best player order, such as existed last year,
adds further to the difficulty with your approach.

Otherwise agree but if Bolton wants to go and Rioli with uncle, also want to go, I'd be saying no to the Rioli's at least. Just too much and literally no one left fast enough to carry the ball out of defence.

Just a question here. Let's say we trade into two to three more picks in the top 15, would it be open to us under the present rules to offer our first + ? for Cadman?

 

[Smoking Aces]

Including Lynch and Prestia in that group of players left who can provide leadership, is no better than a 5 to 1 shot.

Including Taranto and Hopper is also misleading as neither have the speed to keep up with the best mids in lets say, the top eight to ten teams.

In that situation losing Baker, Bolton, and Rioli in one hit is just too much imo, especially given the apparently even value of the top 4 or 5, in this draft, and then the next 6 together..
And the lack of any certainty in the best player order, such as existed last year,
adds further to the difficulty with your approach.

Otherwise agree but if Bolton wants to go and Rioli with uncle, also want to go, I'd be saying no to the Rioli's at least. Just too much and literally no one left fast enough to carry the ball out of defence.

Just a question here. Let's say we trade into two to three more picks in the top 15, would it be open to us under the present rules to offer our first + ? for Cadman?

We can try and get Cadman. Not sure he is going anywhere.

 

[jltiger]

It's obvious that everyone's goal is to contend again for flags...correct? Correct!...
You need 4 - 5 top end champions to contend...
Eg...dusty, jack, trent, rance (replaced by lynch)...
This top top top end talent must be picked up via...
Draft/Junior Talent...
Trade...(expensive...need to pay lots in terms of capital going the other way)
Free Agency...
Geelong is probably the only team to contend and stay relevant without getting their latest batch of stars via the draft...
Danger and Cameron...
The road is clear...
Invest heavily in the draft...
Acquire your stars...
Then use trading and free agency to fill your holes when your considered a destination club...
I.e...
Prestia, nank, houli, caddy, lynch...
Hit the draft...
Hit it as hard as possible...
Have a go at drafting the next generation of duty's...revolts...rances and cotchins...

 

[Carter]

There's no need to gut the core to do that. Okay, so Baker might be out. That makes it more imperative to keep the others, not less. And if you're going to trade a player like Baker, it doesn't need to be for draft picks.

The draft is a gamble. Always. You'll have as many hits as misses, with each of those falling on their own spectrum. If you want younger players, trade for younger players. Some who've already been in the system and shown they can survive it.

You can use the picks we already have to hit the draft. Package and trade later picks to move up where possible (which has been done to great effect previously) . Those are free hits at the draft lottery.

You've said earlier here that it doesn't make sense to think you'll benefit from fewer picks, if you can't benefit from more. But the distinction here, is that the picks we already have cost nothing. Any value they generate is added value. Trading quality established players for picks that don't generate value is a net loss.

When has any team ever benefited from a mass trade off or a massive draft hand? GC? GWS? North?

Even the AFL worked it out with Tassie. They're being forced to not throw all their resources at the mystery box, and trade in known quantities instead.

Why would we intentionally choose the established basket case option?

We have known quality, which we would likely be trading for unknown speculation. We are also giving away any future trade value on a gamble. Essentially liquidating all the valuable assets to invest solely in the most volatile market, the draft.

If we do trade out Bolton, Baker and Rioli, and end up with a mediocre return from the resultant picks, which, looking at history, is an even money chance, then we would find ourselves at end of 2025 with no on field quality, and no stock.

On the promise of possibility.

You're just gazing voraciously at grass seed while you salt the earth.

It's not always sweeter.

No your scenario is status quo for an 18th list

A decade in the wilderness just so you can keep those badges on the duffel coat

 

[Carter]

That's a very different question.

And an out you will try to use when you are inevitably wrong.

Clear as day the club is moving on them and started the conversation for both

 

[Coburgtiger]

No your scenario is status quo for an 18th list

A decade in the wilderness just so you can keep those badges on the duffel coat

And an out you will try to use when you are inevitably wrong.

Clear as day the club is moving on them and started the conversation for both

I'm not sure what the sense is in these replies. If you're going to say nothing, just say nothing.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Have any of the players that were discussing here publicly said that they don’t want to be at Richmond? We’ve had media speculation, but the continual saga around Dusty for his entire career has shown how accurate that is.

Yet we all know that Dusty actually went out and toured facilities at Gee Whizz and that he n Raaalphy Merkin were deep in conversations with # Lolnorf while he never said a word about wanting to leave.
Players publicly, generally just sit back n play footy. They leave all the initial conversations and inquiries to their managers. Player managers, talk to club recruiters and other officials on a constant basis, testing the waters n checking on financial or career advancement opportunities. It's their job to do so, then when there's enough mutual interest n possible prospects the discussions get more serious with more people involved n then friends n family get little whispers which also get shared around. All them meedjia muck rakers spend years building networks of contacts around the industry where they gather all the little whispers together to find a couple of strong plausible threads of info to make comment from.
After all that goes on for a while, some deals get done n some just fade into nothing more than speculation, doesn't mean that nothings ever happening or that it's all just made up lies by arse clown meedjia.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Yet we all know that Dusty actually went out and toured facilities at Gee Whizz and that he n Raaalphy Merkin were deep in conversations with # Lolnorf while he never said a word about wanting to leave.
Players publicly, generally just sit back n play footy. They leave all the initial conversations and inquiries to their managers. Player managers, talk to club recruiters and other officials on a constant basis, testing the waters n checking on financial or career advancement opportunities. It's their job to do so, then when there's enough mutual interest n possible prospects the discussions get more serious with more people involved n then friends n family get little whispers which also get shared around. All them meedjia muck rakers spend years building networks of contacts around the industry where they gather all the little whispers together to find a couple of strong plausible threads of info to make comment from.
After all that goes on for a while, some deals get done n some just fade into nothing more than speculation, doesn't mean that nothings ever happening or that it's all just made up lies by arse clown meedjia.

In both cases with Dusty he was due to come out of contract. Both Bolton and Rioil have significant time to go on their contracts. And the contracts are for pretty decent money. If they were in their final year then it would make more sense. Baker, I believe, is gone, it's just a matter of what deal can be done for him, but he's out of contract at the end of this season. We also won't get anything like what we think. Someone, it may have been posh, floated the idea of #23 for Baker, and that's about right, it'll probably be closer to #30, too, by the time f/s, compo and academy picks have been sorted out.

 

[Carter]

How about all the morons on here saying “you can’t be like Hawthorn” and you can’t recruit a bunch of kids at the same age because it “throws the list out of balance”.

Look at the verve and joy down at Glenferrie. I want that. We’re going to get that.

We’re going to get that because our list manager knows how to build energy and drive back into the list.

We have a list manager who doesn’t listen to cretins on here jabbering nonsense about “nuclear” trading and “list balance”.

 

[ToraToraTora]

How about all the morons on here saying “you can’t be like Hawthorn” and you can’t recruit a bunch of kids at the same age because it “throws the list out of balance”.

Look at the verve and joy down at Glenferrie. I want that. We’re going to get that.

We’re going to get that because our list manager knows how to build energy and drive back into the list.

We have a list manager who doesn’t listen to cretins on here jabbering nonsense about “nuclear” trading and “list balance”.

Everyone thinks you end up like Norf. Norf are the bloody outlier! Norf should be better than they are!

 

[TigerForce]

How about all the morons on here saying “you can’t be like Hawthorn” and you can’t recruit a bunch of kids at the same age because it “throws the list out of balance”.

Look at the verve and joy down at Glenferrie. I want that. We’re going to get that.

We’re going to get that because our list manager knows how to build energy and drive back into the list.

We have a list manager who doesn’t listen to cretins on here jabbering nonsense about “nuclear” trading and “list balance”.

We had that!!!

 

[Carter]

We had that!!!

We’re on the fast track TF