No no no, he's just misunderstood. If the ex-soviet countries didn't try to join NATO I'm sure Putin would be focused on sending humanitarian aid to Sth Qld / Nth NSW to help the flood victims.
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Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
No no no, he's just misunderstood. If the ex-soviet countries didn't try to join NATO I'm sure Putin would be focused on sending humanitarian aid to Sth Qld / Nth NSW to help the flood victims.
With the Russians having already destroyed 100's of buildings in many cities and now shooting at civilians and shelling groups trying to flee the conflict what is the best course of action by Zelenski? Keep encouraging his people to resist an overwhelming enemy and see more Ukrainian soldiers and civilians die? Wait for NATO forces to help him?
No, as much as it pains me to admit it, this is a fight they cannot win so no point in showing courage against overwhelming odds. Unless Zelensky gives in to Putin's demands he will be responsible for more lives lost. Sad but true.
No, as much as it pains me to admit it, this is a fight they cannot win so no point in showing courage against overwhelming odds. Unless Zelensky gives in to Putin's demands he will be responsible for more lives lost. Sad but true.
Whatever lives are lost, there is only one person responsible for them and it isn’t Zelensky
Of course Putin is primarily responsible but should Zelensky keep encouraging his people to fight a war that cannot be won without direct NATO involvement? What are the consequences ?
Yep, so does that mean we should cease all sanctions and advise Ukraine to let Russia roll over them?Putin says sanctions are like a declaration of war. Hmmm
I wonder what a declaration of war looks like. Maybe he knows someone he can ask?
Putin says sanctions over Ukraine are like a declaration of war
The Russian president also warned against any attempt to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine.www.bbc.com
Nearly seems like he is.
The war in Ukraine isn’t going that well for him. The sanctions are going to hurt Russia which could cause massive civil unrest within Russia and undermine his position (probably resulting in his death).
“If I can’t win, I’ll bring everyone else (and I mean practically every single person on the planet) down with me.”
That seems very clear showing he is quite mad so our worst fears have come to pass...a madman with his finger on the button. We can only hope that others in Russia with more sense will take control and remove him. They need to think how can they and other Russians live in their own country with all the economic and banking sanctions that will still be in place even if they take Ukraine? Good to hear that Poland and other neighbouring countries may be involved.
Good article summing up the appeal of Putin to the extremes
www.theage.com.au
Why the far-left and far-right can’t resist Putin
Some back the Russian President to express their discontent with the West. Others admire his macho persona. Both extremes gravitate towards authoritarianism.
Old mate Vlad's busy baring his arse n laughing at the west.
He'll eventually roll over Ukraine n get some puppets installed as he wants.
Protesters inside Russia get a flogging off the cops n jailed for a while, so they'll shut up fairly quick.
Most of the sanctions are worth three fifths of diddly squat. Grandpa Xi is buying up his grain n the west keep right on spending billions buying his oil n gas.
Nato n the rest of the " civilised " world squealing like a pissed off two year old, but not game to do anything else because history would show them up as escalating a local one on one punch on into a full scale global riot by interfering.
He'll eventually roll over Ukraine n get some puppets installed as he wants.
Protesters inside Russia get a flogging off the cops n jailed for a while, so they'll shut up fairly quick.
Most of the sanctions are worth three fifths of diddly squat. Grandpa Xi is buying up his grain n the west keep right on spending billions buying his oil n gas.
Nato n the rest of the " civilised " world squealing like a pissed off two year old, but not game to do anything else because history would show them up as escalating a local one on one punch on into a full scale global riot by interfering.
China will likely remain neutral apart from maybe selling stuff to Russia, or buying oil/gas/coal cheap. Remember China shares a long land border with Russia so they don't particularly want a super strong Russia either.
China's position re Ukraine differs from Taiwan - China has never recognised Taiwan's independence and has always said Taiwan is rogue province which will be "normalised" at some point - Russia recognized Ukraine as an independent nation so China would say cases differ.
The other difference between China and Russia is that China doesn't benefit from disruptions to trade like Russia does - Russia plays the rogue state and tries to destabilise politically, using weapons of the weak. China is strong, and just buys influence through investment - Belt and Road. Militarily China and the US still spend many times more that any other country including Russia. Russia does have nukes though.. and guess what, Ukraine had nukes, a program left-over from the Soviet days, but voluntarily gave them up after Russia recognised them as an independent state.
Fareed Zakaria's discussion of these issues on the Ezra Klein show is a good exploration.
Google Podcasts
podcasts.google.com
Poor analogy, never going to happen bc the US has our back. Russia picks a fight with those it sees as isolated and much weaker, as bullies always do. If you have a reasonable chance of winning then fight as hard and as long as you can. But if you are against overwhelming odds then you're just delaying the inevitable with many more lives lost...for what? We hope NATO can give direct help and avoid an escalation but what if they can't? At what point do you assess the worth of fighting on?
Not at all. Ukrainians want to defend their country, who are you to tell them to roll over?
And if Russia does "win", I'll bet that Ukranians will mount an insurgency. Russia may take but they can't hold.
Not necessarily so. History shows alliances are fluid, subject to change. Owen Harris gave a Boyer Lecture on just this - our alliance to the US - about 20 years ago and how ‘real politik’ could work against Australia one day.
In our case it would be China attacking Australia. If in the future some isolationist president like Trump happens to be in power in the US and ‘realpolitik’ dictates that Australia given its small population etc etc just aint worth a potential world ending nuclear confrontation with China then we’re toast. So do we become China’s bitches and live a life of total submission without human rights for generations to come under China’s totalitarian rule or do we fight? Ukrainians are doing nothing more than what comes natural for human beings.
Absolutely spot on, and that's why I was arguing in another thread that we need to be careful about poking the bear on China. If China was to invade Australia, and they said to the rest of the world "we'll nuke you if you dare do anything about it", wouldn't we be in the same situation as Ukraine right now?
At what point do you assess the worth of fighting on? When is discretion the better part of valour?
Eg. You are climbing Mt Everest and a severe storm closes in so you have to make a decision. Do I show courage and keep going to reach my goal or do I accept defeat and turn back to preserve my life and allow my children to still have a father.
Eg. You are climbing Mt Everest and a severe storm closes in so you have to make a decision. Do I show courage and keep going to reach my goal or do I accept defeat and turn back to preserve my life and allow my children to still have a father.
Reaching the summit of Everest really has no bearing on the freedoms, cultural identity and your country's ability to self-govern. For you now and for your children in the future.
Reaching Everest is a personal goal.
Ridiculous analogy.
I doubt China will go to his aid quite frankly.
They have very little to gain from any real alliance with Russia, and a lot to lose.
