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Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
What debate? You haven't made an argument. Do you have an argument for your claim?
He's gone either way. Just a matter of time. Looks like he pressed the Death button instead of the Nuke button.
Not quite. Pronounced "idi nahui" and made famous by the 13 Ukraine border patrol guards on Snake Island when replying to a Russian war ship. It's now being used everywhere in the Ukraine.
as many people know, i went to Russia for the 2018 world cup. After 27 hours in transit and a few more getting to our Moscow hotel and settling in, I was starving. So, I went to the hotel restaurant and ordered 2 of the items on the menu that stood out the most to me… Chicken Kiev and a Vodka. Seems rather ironic now.
Heard this morning that BWS, Dan Murphy's and Liquorland are not selling Russian vodka.
Isn't Polish vodka meant to be the best anyway?Heard this morning that BWS, Dan Murphy's and Liquorland are not selling Russian vodka.
I reckon a fair bit of the occupation of Crimea was to do with the port of Sevastopol, hmm, geopolitical considerations again. Without Sevastopol Russia loses a critical port for their Navy and access to the Mediterranean.
DS
DS
Really? Libya is a member of NATO now? Weren't they involved in the former Yugoslavia? They could intervene if they really wanted to, heck, they could have joined up Ukraine at any time in the last 6 months but didn't. They could join Ukraine up now, but they're not.
Yep, that he is, a bit more resistance than he was hoping for, but it is hard to see Ukraine winning the war. Equally hard to see Russia winning the peace.
Do I really need to spell this out for you? Again?
Ok, I'll spell it out: countries join NATO because Russia is a threat as I have said ad f*cking nauseum many times (must have been to subtle for some). So, when you see a threat what do you do, provoke it? F*cking stupid if that is your preferred strategy.
So, little Ukraine is not a member of NATO, tried to join but was rejected, and the very countries that are in NATO (and didn't let Ukraine in) because they see Russia as a threat, are willing to use Ukraine to upset the Russians. Wow, just the sort of friends you need
Do you think it was wise of the USA and NATO to overthrow the government in Ukraine, to tear up the Minsk Accords, to keep pushing and pushing against Russia exactly where Russia would feel most threatened? It isn't like Russia didn't make this abundantly clear, they came right out and unambiguously said where they drew the line. They could cope with a neutral Ukraine and protection of their mates in the Donbass Region, but, oh no, the USA and NATO had to push harder and then feign shock that they got a reaction. The USA and NATO knew exactly what they were doing. They also knew that they could handle Ukraine being collateral damage.
Russia and Putin should not have invaded Ukraine but it isn't exactly an unexpected outcome, sh*t, even the USA and NATO predicted this response. Shows how much they really care about Ukraine. We always knew the only care factor relating to Ukraine from the Russian side was as a buffer zone and possibly a source of raw materials, but the West's care factor amounts to geopolitical gamesmanship.
There is blame on both sides. We all know Russia wants a buffer, we all know Russia won't accept a western aligned Ukraine. Strategically I reckon Russia would have been better off just occupying Donbass and destabilising the rest of Ukraine, but a full invasion was always a possibility. You should also read that article Spook linked to earlier, Russia is doing a very similar thing to what NATO did in Kosovo in 1999.
This war is a tragedy which could have been avoided. You don't provoke a threat, you limit their actions.
DS
Fair points on Libya, which was a civil war where Gaddafi was killing people of his own population, but definitely not NATO. Yugoslavia was when a part of the old Yugoslavia under Milosevic was killing ethnic albanians in Kosovo - although Kosovo was not yet part of NATO.
On the joining NATO issue I got tired of reading through hundreds of lines of excuses for Putin's invasion of Ukraine, so missed it. Realpolitic as appeasement.
We're talking Putin. All anyone can do is guess why Putin really invaded Ukraine, but we'll never know unless someone in his inner circle comes out and explains what was going on in Putin's head and for how long.
Maybe, but all I've read so far is a bunch of apologia and appeasement type solutions - oooh if only we didn't let countries voluntary join Nato, Putin would have stayed and played nicely within the current borders of Russia.
Meanwhile in the US, Trump, Fox and OAN have taken the side of Putin because apparently he's anti-woke and Ukraine is woke.
Thats exactly why they did it. Russia have lost land sizes to countries seeking independent futures away from Russia. Ukraine is doing exactly that, and Russia don't want them to have independent thought and decision making that may not suit the Russian agenda and their historical access to either ports, mineral resources or other strategic sites.
All I hear on here is its NATO's fault etc, but its actually people in other countries gaining a voice and deciding that their future is better suited with the EU / NATO rather than with Russia. Maybe if Putin focused on economic development rather than trying to hold onto historical power both domestically and Internationally maybe those Eastern European nations would be happier to remain connected with Russia as their future economic prospectively would be aligned. The fact that Putin hasn't focused on this, and has instead focused on trying to maintain their military over economic development, has pushed those nations that are gaining their own voices towards EU and NATO as their economic future is far stronger.
