-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
WATCH: 'The War in Ukraine'
In 2015 and 2017, the Watchdog Media Institute released a 22-part video series on Maidan and Kiev's war on ethnic Russians. Watch the summary 25-minute film and the entire series here. Produced and presented by the Watchdog Media Institute, here is a chronological archive of events in Ukr
consortiumnews.com
22 part series about the 2014 coup. Hard to comprehend what life is like over there, just completely nuts and we should have nothing to do with it. There are no good and bad guys.
They've been using cluster bombs from the start. The fear is they'll start using thermobaric ammunition.
Really? Libya is a member of NATO now? Weren't they involved in the former Yugoslavia? They could intervene if they really wanted to, heck, they could have joined up Ukraine at any time in the last 6 months but didn't. They could join Ukraine up now, but they're not.
Yep, that he is, a bit more resistance than he was hoping for, but it is hard to see Ukraine winning the war. Equally hard to see Russia winning the peace.
Do I really need to spell this out for you? Again?
Ok, I'll spell it out: countries join NATO because Russia is a threat as I have said ad f*cking nauseum many times (must have been too subtle for some). So, when you see a threat what do you do, provoke it? F*cking stupid if that is your preferred strategy.
So, little Ukraine is not a member of NATO, tried to join but was rejected, and the very countries that are in NATO (and didn't let Ukraine in) because they see Russia as a threat, are willing to use Ukraine to upset the Russians. Wow, just the sort of friends you need
Do you think it was wise of the USA and NATO to overthrow the government in Ukraine, to tear up the Minsk Accords, to keep pushing and pushing against Russia exactly where Russia would feel most threatened? It isn't like Russia didn't make this abundantly clear, they came right out and unambiguously said where they drew the line. They could cope with a neutral Ukraine and protection of their mates in the Donbass Region, but, oh no, the USA and NATO had to push harder and then feign shock that they got a reaction. The USA and NATO knew exactly what they were doing. They also knew that they could handle Ukraine being collateral damage.
Russia and Putin should not have invaded Ukraine but it isn't exactly an unexpected outcome, sh*t, even the USA and NATO predicted this response. Shows how much they really care about Ukraine. We always knew the only care factor relating to Ukraine from the Russian side was as a buffer zone and possibly a source of raw materials, but the West's care factor amounts to geopolitical gamesmanship.
There is blame on both sides. We all know Russia wants a buffer, we all know Russia won't accept a western aligned Ukraine. Strategically I reckon Russia would have been better off just occupying Donbass and destabilising the rest of Ukraine, but a full invasion was always a possibility. You should also read that article Spook linked to earlier, Russia is doing a very similar thing to what NATO did in Kosovo in 1999.
This war is a tragedy which could have been avoided. You don't provoke a threat, you limit their actions.
DS
Last edited:
Really? Libya is a member of NATO now? Weren't they involved in the former Yugoslavia? They could intervene if they really wanted to, heck, they could have joined up Ukraine at any time in the last 6 months but didn't. They could join Ukraine up now, but they're not.
Yep, that he is, a bit more resistance than he was hoping for, but it is hard to see Ukraine winning the war. Equally hard to see Russia winning the peace.
Do I really need to spell this out for you? Again?
Ok, I'll spell it out: countries join NATO because Russia is a threat as I have said ad f*cking nauseum many times (must have been to subtle for some). So, when you see a threat what do you do, provoke it? F*cking stupid if that is your preferred strategy.
So, little Ukraine is not a member of NATO, tried to join but was rejected, and the very countries that are in NATO (and didn't let Ukraine in) because they see Russia as a threat, are willing to use Ukraine to upset the Russians. Wow, just the sort of friends you need
Do you think it was wise of the USA and NATO to overthrow the government in Ukraine, to tear up the Minsk Accords, to keep pushing and pushing against Russia exactly where Russia would feel most threatened? It isn't like Russia didn't make this abundantly clear, they came right out and unambiguously said where they drew the line. They could cope with a neutral Ukraine and protection of their mates in the Donbass Region, but, oh no, the USA and NATO had to push harder and then feign shock that they got a reaction. The USA and NATO knew exactly what they were doing. They also knew that they could handle Ukraine being collateral damage.
Russia and Putin should not have invaded Ukraine but it isn't exactly an unexpected outcome, sh*t, even the USA and NATO predicted this response. Shows how much they really care about Ukraine. We always knew the only care factor relating to Ukraine from the Russian side was as a buffer zone and possibly a source of raw materials, but the West's care factor amounts to geopolitical gamesmanship.
There is blame on both sides. We all know Russia wants a buffer, we all know Russia won't accept a western aligned Ukraine. Strategically I reckon Russia would have been better off just occupying Donbass and destabilising the rest of Ukraine, but a full invasion was always a possibility. You should also read that article Spook linked to earlier, Russia is doing a very similar thing to what NATO did in Kosovo in 1999.
This war is a tragedy which could have been avoided. You don't provoke a threat, you limit their actions.
DS
But it's not just about NATO expansion. It's not even the main reason. Like most wars it's mainly about natural resources, oil, gas, etc.
I think it is also about geopolitical power. The West have been trying to hem Russia in ever since the end of the cold war but Ukraine is a line in the sand for Russia. The pity of this is that it has encouraged China and Russia to become much better friends.
DS
You can argue many different reasons, but control of natural resources is the core of nearly every war/invasion/skirmish.
Likely Russia will take over the Donbas but they have no resources and it will be a strain on the Russian economy to re-build and maintain it.
FIFA and UEFA have suspended all Russian teams, both at national and club level, from all competition. Well done. It's about time a sports governing body grew a sack over the Russians. Unlike the pathetic IOC who let Russian athletes compete under the banner of the Russian Olympic Committee. Isn't that the same committee that has been responsible for the systemic doping and cheating that has been going on since the Soviet Union and East Germany days; and continues in Russia to this day? What a *smile* joke.
Putin has turned his nation into a pariah state.
Putin has turned his nation into a pariah state.
The Yuzivska gas field is a Ukrainian natural gas field that was discovered in 2010. It will begin production in 2017 and will produce natural gas and condensates. The total proven reserves of the Yuzivska gas field are around 70.8 trillion cubic feet (2000×109m³) and production is slated to be around 960 million cubic feet/day (27.4×106m³).
The Yuzivska gas field located in Donetsk Oblast (province) and Kharkiv Oblast;
If you exclude civil wars which are different beast, I reckon most are about resources or securing pathways to natural resources. Iraq was about oil.
What do you think has been fought in Ukraine for the past 7.5 years? Hint, it starts with civil and Russians are on one side of it.
Do hold a Masters in Condescension? Perhaps a Doctorate?
It's a very large Gas reserve and one that can take a fair chunk out of Russia's exports to Europe. Crimea was about similar reserves in the Black Sea. Most gas pipelines from Russia to Europe go through the Ukraine.
Russia wouldn't risk what they are risking just for a chess move. There's a lot more at stake.
Russian initiated, Russian funded, Russian led. Triggered when Russia's puppet in the Ukraine was removed after mass protests and riots across the Ukraine. When the Ukraine parliament voted 328-0 to relieve the puppet of his duties, you'd be hard pressed to say this wasn't the will of the Ukraine people.
Last edited:
You are arguing that to stop Ukraine from out competing Russia for European gas sales, they invaded Ukraine, which had the effect of turning their customers against them and motivated them to source energy from anywhere but Russia.
I agree control of resources is a major source of conflict, but I don't see it in this war.
There is no single reason for Russia's decision to invade Ukraine, there are a few and it's always been Putin's plan. He believed timing was right.
When it comes to securing fuel sources, countries have short memories.
Agree on the bolded point, but I feel like dusting off that condescension doctorate again about your second claim.
