Russia Invades Ukraine

[Giardiasis]

Your post above was stating, The West / US has done this and that. Russia have tried hard to be diplomatic about it but they were pushed and pushed by the west, therefore they sound like they are really great guys. If you really think both sides are in the wrong, you aren't doing a very good job of explaining it.

No they aren't great guys, but they are the weaker side. Russia hasn't done much at all to intervene in Eastern Europe compared to the US and NATO and what they have done has largely been since the 2008 NATO announcement of Ukraine and Georgian membership into NATO. Perhaps that's why it sounds all one way?

 

[Baloo]

I laughed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1498085663786344452

 

[TigerMasochist]

You seem to think this is a price worth paying?

The Ukranians seem to think this is definitely a price worth paying. They might not like the idea of being bombed n shot at, but they like the idea of Putin n Russia taking them over a lot less.

 

[Giardiasis]

The Ukranians seem to think this is definitely a price worth paying. They might not like the idea of being bombed n shot at, but they like the idea of Putin n Russia taking them over a lot less.

Unfortunately they will get both.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Umm. I think I might stop posting here. I just looked at my phone and saw I had a missed call………….. from Russia
I don’t know anyone from Russia








Sorry Vlad. Really really really sorry

It's alright, Vlad just wants a lend of fifty bucks. He's run out of fuel n his tanks blocking an intersection.

 

[mrposhman]

Unfortunately they will get both.

We'll see. Russia refused to engage in peace talks before the invasion. 5 days in and they are trying to negotiate a ceasefire in Belarus. Suggests they seriously underestimated Ukrainian resistance.

 

[TigerMasochist]

News tonight reporting that Old mate Putin has told his Generals to put the nuke bovver boys on full alert.

Got a feeling Vlad was thinking that firstly Ukraine would just roll over for a tummy rub after they saw how big an arsenal he'd parked outside their front yard.
Secondly that no-one else would actually notice if he did a quick shoofty across the border n stomped a few Ukraine pollies, then quickly nipped back home again.
Thirdly that 90% of the rest of the world couldn't be arsed bothering about what he did, even if he did do something. Misread the room badly there n he's got *smile* coming at him from all directions, even the family at home giving him grief.

 

[DavidSSS]

I disagree with all of that.

So, you disagree that NATO had a right to refuse membership to Ukraine?

You still haven't answered the question. Why did all these other nations join NATO if Russia was no threat? Why does Ukraine want to join NATO?

I give up.

Seriously.

I give up.

Post after post I have said that threatening behaviour (whether you see expanding NATO as a threat is irrelevant, Russia clearly does, and why not, the USA is a member of NATO and their military could never be described as non-threatening) towards the country with the largest military in the neighbourhood is not wise when you look at it in a realistic fashion. Of course, when you are the largest military power in the world (I feel I need to point out that I am referring to the USA) and you are a long way from the neighbourhood you may prod the bear, especially when you know you will not be around to take the consequences.

FFS why do you think I argue that NATO has some culpability in this when they have acted in a way that they knew would be provocative towards Russia?

Did you watch that video posted on about page 2? If not, go and watch it now. It will give you some understanding of the way the world order actually works, not the way we would like it to work. Countries don't have the luxury of acting as if the world order of powerful and weaker countries doesn't exist, they don't have the luxury of changing their geography. FFS why do you think I'm an anarchist if not because I actually understand how these things work in the real world and I reckon it is f*cked.

I expect better from you.

DS

 

[Baloo]

So, you disagree that NATO had a right to refuse membership to Ukraine?

Of course they had a right to refuse membership.

Were they right to refuse Ukraine's membership request? That's a different discussion.

 

[MD Jazz]

Vlad has signed the death warrant for tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of Russians. What a guy.
I’m tipping he will not be ruling Russia within 2 years. You can’t shut down the truth permanently. Young Russians will rise up. The sanctions will undermine his propoganda. His retrograde outlook will eventually not be tolerated.

 

[DavidSSS]

You forget Ukraine isn't alone. Other countries will band together in support (already started) and it may be Russia will regret taking the action it has. Who may end up getting the biggest whack - the Russian people.

You keep telling us that Putin doesn't give a f*ck about the Russian people then you come up with this? You make my argument for me. Yes, this will cost Russia but those in power are willing to pay that price because they will not be as affected as most of the population.

As for the notion that countries are banding together to defend Ukraine, really?
Have they committed troops? No
Have they taken away Russian control of the airspace? No
Have they flung a few cruise missiles at the invading Russian forces? No
Are the sanctions (useless as sanctions are) complete? No

The only people defending the Ukrainians are the Ukrainians. The day the USA said no troops Ukraine knew they were going to be fed to the wolves. The day France and Germany said sanctions . . . but, don't stop the gas flow, the Ukrainians knew they would be fed to the wolves.

This is why provoking Russia, rather than hemming them in and limiting their possible actions was the way to prevent the invasion.

Personally I reckon you are better off preventing a war rather than positioning yourself to be able to attribute blame solely to the side you don't like while people are dying.

DS

 

[MD Jazz]

This is an existential issue to Russia, they won't regret defending vital interests. It is the west who will regret pushing them on this. If NATO bands together to support Ukraine militarily then it is basically midnight on the nuclear clock. Listen to what Putin said about this point:

"Now a few important, very important words for those who may be tempted to intervene in ongoing events. Whoever tries to hinder us, and even more so to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia’s response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history. We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made. I hope that I will be heard."

Power only matters. Russia is dwarfed by the combined power of the NATO members. Let’s hope Vlad understands that better then the Ukrainians hey?

 

[Redford]

Vlad has signed the death warrant for tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of Russians. What a guy.
I’m tipping he will not be ruling Russia within 2 years. You can’t shut down the truth permanently. Young Russians will rise up. The sanctions will undermine his propoganda. His retrograde outlook will eventually not be tolerated.

2 months might be as likely…

 

[DavidSSS]

Power only matters. Russia is dwarfed by the combined power of the NATO members. Let’s hope Vlad understands that better then the Ukrainians hey?

The combined power of NATO, which is doing precisely nothing to help the Ukrainians. The combined power of NATO is about 90% USA and they are nowhere to be seen.

Yeah, Vlad is shaking in his boots about NATO right now.

What is actually going to be pissing him off is that the Ukrainians are putting up more resistance than he hoped for. Good on 'em but I reckon they should never have been put in this situation in the first place.

DS

 

[MD Jazz]

The combined power of NATO, which is doing precisely nothing to help the Ukrainians. The combined power of NATO is about 90% USA and they are nowhere to be seen.

Yeah, Vlad is shaking in his boots about NATO right now.

What is actually going to be pissing him off is that the Ukrainians are putting up more resistance than he hoped for. Good on 'em but I reckon they should never have been put in this situation in the first place.

DS

I was only using the power logic G man endorses. If Putin is so smart surely he recognises he is outgunned. But maybe he just doesn’t give a *smile*?

 

[AngryAnt]

Talk to Finns and they'll tell you there's already about 10,000 Russian soldiers on the Finnish border, 6 feet underground.

The Finns have already beaten the Ruskis last time they invaded. The Finns are tough.

 

[AngryAnt]

The combined power of NATO, which is doing precisely nothing to help the Ukrainians. The combined power of NATO is about 90% USA and they are nowhere to be seen.

Yeah, Vlad is shaking in his boots about NATO right now.

What is actually going to be pissing him off is that the Ukrainians are putting up more resistance than he hoped for. Good on 'em but I reckon they should never have been put in this situation in the first place.

DS

Dude, NATO can't act directly until a NATO country is attacked directly. The EU is acting as a proxy.

That military assistance, Ukranian resistance and the Russian economic crisis means Putin is getting a touch of realpolitik himself right now.

You still haven't answered my question. Why does Ukraine want to join NATO? Why did the other countries join NATO?

 

[tigerman]

Instead of sending the army in, Putin should've sent in his police force, those thugs are animals.

 

[Baloo]

Interesting video. While the NATO creep is part of the issue, the real issue is, it should come as now surprise, natural resources. oil and more importantly, natural gas.

30min video so sit back and relax

 

[MD Jazz]

Instead of sending the army in, Putin should've sent in his police force, those thugs are animals.

4 Corners?
Putin is all about freedom hey?