Russia Invades Ukraine | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Russia Invades Ukraine

If Russian stops fighting there will be no war.
If Ukraine stops fighting there will be no Ukraine.

Ukraine didn't "go to war". Ukraine are defending themselves.
Incorrect. The Ukrainians would continue their war against the Donbas in the first scenario.

The second scenario also not true, they would lose the Donbas and they would have to accept losing Crimea, but they would maintain the rest of their territories.
 
Incorrect. The Ukrainians would continue their war against the Donbas in the first scenario.

The second scenario also not true, they would lose the Donbas and they would have to accept losing Crimea, but they would maintain the rest of their territories.
Ivermectin will fix it.
 
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Incorrect. The Ukrainians would continue their war against the Donbas in the first scenario.

The second scenario also not true, they would lose the Donbas and they would have to accept losing Crimea, but they would maintain the rest of their territories.

The "war" in Donbas that was conceived, funded and led by Putin's mates?

The second scenario you are believing Putin's propaganda machine. No one really knows how this is going to play out.
 
Incorrect. The Ukrainians would continue their war against the Donbas in the first scenario.

The second scenario also not true, they would lose the Donbas and they would have to accept losing Crimea, but they would maintain the rest of their territories.

"Their war against Donbas"??? Are you rewriting history? Donbas has been heavily supported by Russia in order to stage an uprising against the Ukrainian government.

For someone that claims they don't support Putin, all of your posts have a very pro Russia angle.
 
So where is the proof of any genocide? I know Putin has used this (with no evidence) and you've repeated it a number of times, so what genocide??
The US invaded Iraq without proof. Proof and truth counts for little in wars. The genocide may or may not have happened - both sides are accusing each other of mis-information.
 
The "war" in Donbas that was conceived, funded and led by Putin's mates?

The second scenario you are believing Putin's propaganda machine. No one really knows how this is going to play out.
Yeah the one that started when the US helped stage a coup to remove a democratically elected pro-Russian leader.

While true, I think it a pretty reasonable expectation.
 
"Their war against Donbas"??? Are you rewriting history? Donbas has been heavily supported by Russia in order to stage an uprising against the Ukrainian government.

For someone that claims they don't support Putin, all of your posts have a very pro Russia angle.
I'm not re-writing anything, the Ukrainian government has discriminated against Russian minorities since 2014, ever since the coup. There is a genuine self determination issue in the western Ukraine that their government responded to with military force. Again, power matters not morals.

You think that because everything I'm hearing is pro-Western and I'm criticising that narrative. I am anti-Western and anti-Russian, however at the end of the day in order to stop people killing each other we have to do a better job at understanding the reality of the situation than regurgitating MSM western propaganda like yourself and others here are doing.
 
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More false equivalence. Stick to the issue at hand instead of trying to make sense of this from a domestic violence POV.
you were previously happy to compare to DV, but showed a complete lack of understanding of DV situations. but yes the comparison probably doesnt lead anywhere.

It is probably undoubtedly true that Ukraine have made decisions that have contributed to Russia's decision to invade, but in your view is there any reasonable justification for Russia to have invaded Ukraine?
 
you were previously happy to compare to DV, but showed a complete lack of understanding of DV situations. but yes the comparison probably doesnt lead anywhere.

It is probably undoubtedly true that Ukraine have made decisions that have contributed to Russia's decision to invade, but in your view is there any reasonable justification for Russia to have invaded Ukraine?
From my point of view it violates the non-aggression principle so it is morally wrong.

Now that's all fine and dandy, but unfortunately states don't act morally they act to maintain and advance their power. The number one priority for any state is to maintain its security. Russia's security without a doubt has been eroded since the start of Eastern NATO expansion in the late 90s and NATO's war against Yugoslavia. For peace to be maintained that erosion of security had to be limited to areas that didn't encroach upon Russia's vital interests. Powerful countries go to war over such interests. Given how weak Russia is economically it can't dominate Europe like it once did, however and it has stated this before, Georgia and Ukraine were where they would draw the line (i.e. they were vital interests). The US's response to this was to intervene in Ukrainian affairs by supporting a coup of a democratically elected president, providing billions in military support, advancing NATO membership aspirations and even had politicians on the ground in Ukraine advocating for the westernisation of the Ukraine. If Russia swallowed this, they would be abandoning the Russians in the Donbas who they committed to support, Russian minorities in Ukraine would continue to be discriminated against, they would face an emboldened Ukraine that would then focus its efforts on re-taking Crimea. Without Crimea they would not be able to have a navy in the Mediterranean. It would also then allow western forces right up to its border and provide the US with a great advantage in terms of their ability to knock out Russia's nuclear arsenal. So yes from that perspective I can see where Russia is coming from wanting to prevent that given it is a powerful country that does not support the liberal agenda of the west and rightfully, I think, fears US world domination. They tried for years to go down the diplomatic route but NATO and the US just laughed in their face.
 
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From my point of view it violates the non-aggression principle so it is morally wrong.

Now that's all fine and dandy, but unfortunately states don't act morally they act to maintain and advance their power. The number one priority for any state is to maintain its security. Russia's security without a doubt has been eroded since the start of Eastern NATO expansion in the late 90s and NATO's war against Yugoslavia. For peace to be maintained that erosion of security had to be limited to areas that didn't encroach upon Russia's vital interests. Powerful countries go to war over such interests. Given how weak Russia is economically it can't dominate Europe like it once did, however and it has stated this before, Georgia and Ukraine were where they would draw the line (i.e. they were vital interests). The US's response to this was to intervene in Ukrainian affairs by supporting a coup of a democratically elected president, providing billions in military support, advancing NATO membership aspirations and even had politicians on the ground in Ukraine advocating for the westernisation of the Ukraine. If Russia swallowed this, they would be abandoning the Russians in the Donbas who they committed to support, Russian minorities in Ukraine would continue to be discriminated against, they would face an emboldened Ukraine that would then focus its efforts on re-taking Crimea. Without Crimea they would not be able to have a navy in the Mediterranean. It would also then allow western forces right up to its border and provide the US with a great advantage in terms of their ability to knock out Russia's nuclear arsenal. So yes from that perspective I can see where Russia is coming from wanting to prevent that given it is a powerful country that does not support the liberal agenda of the west and rightfully, I think, fears US world domination. They tried for years to go down the diplomatic route but NATO and the US just laughed in their face.

Ok so reading through your post, what I understand is.

The West and NATO - Bad dictators
Vladimir Putin - A great peacekeeper
 
This is horrible. Good reminder that there are no ‘goodie’s and baddies’ in this world.

 
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Umm. I think I might stop posting here. I just looked at my phone and saw I had a missed call………….. from Russia
I don’t know anyone from Russia :eek:








Sorry Vlad. Really really really sorry
 
Ok so reading through your post, what I understand is.

The West and NATO - Bad dictators
Vladimir Putin - A great peacekeeper
Your mind can't get out of this good guy bad guy dichotomy. Both bad, both need to understand lives are at stake, both need to respect each other's nuclear arsenal, but need to limit war to vital interests.
 
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Your mind can't get out of this good guy bad guy dichotomy. Both bad, both need to understand lives are at stake, both need to respect each other's nuclear arsenal, but need to limit war to vital interests.

Your post above was stating, The West / US has done this and that. Russia have tried hard to be diplomatic about it but they were pushed and pushed by the west, therefore they sound like they are really great guys. If you really think both sides are in the wrong, you aren't doing a very good job of explaining it.
 
This is horrible. Good reminder that there are no ‘goodie’s and baddies’ in this world.


I saw a report on this last night on BBC news, its not just Africans but Indians too. They were insinuating that the Indians may have been in retaliation to India abstaining from the UN vote, but that doesn't explain the Africans. The one thing you can say about a lot of Eastern European countries is that they are very racist and they all need to change these beliefs.
 
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