Rebuild Time

[cagedtiger]

Our last 2 games have been terrible of course, and not what we have been used to when our backs are against the wall. There are reasons for this:

- Missing our prime ruck (we have bet only on one quality ruck being needed - and that is hurting us know)
- Missing our best proven and experienced forward
- Our best back missing (+ 2 of our premiership backmen against Geelong)
- Missing one of our best and most improved midfielders (Lambert)
- Missing our surprise package and up and comer midfielder (Ross)
- Lynch is underdone (though still need much to proves against his potential and pay grade)
- Cotchin is underdone
- Higgins in his 2nd year blues
- Rioli is underdone and out of form
- The young players who carried us amazingly through this have to be tiring and have not be able to maintain the rage against experienced bigger fitter bodies (we can't expect Stack, Balta and Baker to amaze us every week and carry us over the line - simply they are too young to sustain this)
- I am sure there are other others reasons I have missed (please fill in the gaps)

It all adds up. Sides know we are vulnerable on experience and know to go hard on contested ball - if they win this stat then they win - both North and Geelong smashed us in the contested ball stat.

We did well for a couple of games undermanned and underdone, however we are vulnerable and now it is showing. Sure all teams have injuries - however we have been gutted of some of our best players in integral positions. As an earlier poster pointed out if Geelong had the equivalent missing they would not be sitting on top.

The positives there is only one way to go, and that is up when some of the above is resolved. Once resolved we will be our formidable self again. Though next week will be another painful episode with Adelaide as we find it too hard at their home ground when we are at full strength :-\ . If the long terms injuries we now carry do go through to the end of the season we won't make finals and we can all take an early holiday. Right now I feel we just need to maintain a steady nerve as a club and supporter base , like we managed to do (just) after 2016 season concluded. - and see what came of that.

To those who are struggling with recent weeks - hold on the best you can, this is an anomaly. Add to this our VFL side sitting at the top of the ladder is a sign as well that our depth is pretty good in times we have been decimated with injuries to many key players.

On the topic of the thread the rebuild has plainly already started with quality finds in youth of Baker, Ross, Balta, Stake and obviously Lynch has been recruited with the long term future in mind. The idea for this rebuild is to do gradually whilst keeping the team finals competitive every year and working to the 'system' - this clearly looks like how we are approaching this. This period of being undermanned has been a fantastic opportunity to showcase the young players to see what they are made of, and who would have expected the 'wow' we have seen from them. It is just so exciting for the new future.

 

[Rabbia]

With a lot of this, I've said much the same thing myself already, so I mean overall, I have to agree.

Just a few points to add at this stage. Thinking now, they might appear negative, but it's more a case of staying real and I'm certainly not saying 'man the lifeboats'.

- Ross looked good -mostly, but not always - from what we saw, but we didn't see him for very long. We can't know what we have there yet.

- Higgins I've always wondered about a bit. The 'second year blues' thing is real, but the thing about that is, you can't know if they'll come THROUGH that. From what I could gather, he's been doing things like taking ice baths since he could walk. You can't question his dedication, but when you look at his frame, I just wonder what he can produce, fully tuned. Meaning he might have been more fully tuned when we got him than most other equivalent recruits his vintage, so how far can he go from here then, is the thing. If he had say real SPEED, okay. But he doesn't really, although he's not slow. At the same time, he'll do whatever it takes we can be pretty sure. All up? We don't know.

- Balta - you can put together a pretty good highlight reel, sure. But he's a fair way from being a Koutifides at this point. Again, we don't know.

- Rioli we perservere with, but you have to have some doubts at this point.

- Lynch for some reason(s) we have to give leeway to. I actually have more faith than some seem to. He can look clumsy and mono-dimensional at times and he's not electric like Jack. We won't be able to truly assess until probably the end of next year, and that's assuming no further significant injury.

- Baker has done well but am still not wholly bought in.

The above can seem negative but it's more...let's not be too rosy with those glasses.

Pickett could be good. An addition right where we need it. It was interesting how enthusiastic Kelly from Geelong seemed to be, about how he could impact. But we have NO idea yet.

We really need another ruckman, absolutely. You can't have the likes of Grundy dominating us as he has. There's a rumour btw, that we are "into" Kreuzer for next year. That would be interesting, if anything comes of it.

There's more, but will leave it there for now.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

3 or 4 posters on here deliberately spoil it for the majority. its not funny just boring :

Different opinions should always be welcome as long as they're genuine, but calling for a "rebuild" reeks of troll.

We're already one of the youngest sides in the comp and are effectively performing a makeshift rebuild on the run. What more do people suggest - trade out Riewoldt & Rance?

We returned over the odds prior to the last fortnight. Some people have been spoilt.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Spoiler alert the ending is not always - and they lived happily ever after, Santa and the Easter bunny ain’t real and Hardwick is an average coach

Last two and a half years:

Coach P W L D Win %
------------------------------------
Graham, Jayme 1 1 100.0
Shaw, Rhyce 1 1 100.0
Teague, David 1 1 100.0
Hardwick, Damien 61 44 17 72.1
Scott, Chris 60 40 19 1 67.5
Simpson, Adam 60 39 21 65.0
Cameron, Leon 61 37 21 3 63.1
Pyke, Don 59 36 22 1 61.9
Buckley, Nathan 59 34 24 1 58.5
Hinkley, Ken 56 32 24 57.1
Longmire, John 59 33 26 55.9
Clarkson, Alastair 57 30 26 1 53.5
Goodwin, Simon 58 31 27 53.4
Worsfold, John 56 29 27 51.8
Beveridge, Luke 55 23 32 41.8
Lyon, Ross 55 22 33 40.0
Scott, Brad 55 22 33 40.0
Richardson, Alan R. 55 20 34 1 37.3
Eade, Rodney 19 6 13 31.6
Fagan, Chris 56 17 39 30.4
Dew, Stuart 34 7 27 20.6
Bolton, Brendon 55 9 46 16.4
Solomon, Dean 3 3 0.0

How in *smile*'s name did you survive Frawley?

 

[King Kong]

Lets see the 10 year record

 

[kiwitiger]

Sacking a coach that has just finished 1st and 3rd in consecutive seasons would be the stuff of insanity , and we would then become the laughing stock of the competition

 

[zippadeee]

Lets see the 10 year record

Stack the backline. People on here just see what they want to see.
We should’ve won the flag last year, in a space of being unbeatable we are back where we started with Hardwick.
Shocking list management,
Shocking team selection,
Shocking team set up
Shitful game plan
Etc

The injuries are one thing but the thought you could win another flag with the exact same 22 is bewildering.
What’s on the cards this year? Alex Neal-Bullen.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Yay!
Lets sack Dimma who's still managed to keep an injury crippled team in the positive win / loss ratio this year. There's a couple of premium coaches waiting in the wings just salivating for the opportunity to take over coaching our mob.
We could have Chuckles or maybe even the other Scott brother, the one who hasn't won a flag yet. Or perhaps A.R. might finish up at St Kiddinme by years end n we could have three possibles to choose from.

 

[zippadeee]

Different opinions should always be welcome as long as they're genuine, but calling for a "rebuild" reeks of troll.

We're already one of the youngest sides in the comp and are effectively performing a makeshift rebuild on the run. What more do people suggest - trade out Riewoldt & Rance?

We returned over the odds prior to the last fortnight. Some people have been spoilt.

You Can’t be scared of trading out. Regardless who they’re. Would you trade out Rance 2 first rounders? I would.
Cotchin? I would.
Jack I wouldn’t.
I don’t want a rebuild. We have quality kids but some of our senior players are cooked. I would rather off load them now when they hold some return then wait 12 months, when basically they might have zero value.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Yay!
Lets sack Dimma who's still managed to keep an injury crippled team in the positive win / loss ratio this year. There's a couple of premium coaches waiting in the wings just salivating for the opportunity to take over coaching our mob.
We could have Chuckles or maybe even the other Scott brother, the one who hasn't won a flag yet. Or perhaps A.R. might finish up at St Kiddinme by years end n we could have three possibles to choose from.

Agree, TM.

Footy has changed.

The reigning premier just got torched by a bottom six side.

These days it’s about getting enough wins and peaking at the right time.

Even if we lose to Adelaide we’re still well placed to lock in a home elimination final. From there, who knows?

 

[MalenyTiger]

Our last 2 games have been terrible of course, and not what we have been used to when our backs are against the wall. There are reasons for this:

- Missing our prime ruck (we have bet only on one quality ruck being needed - and that is hurting us know)
- Missing our best proven and experienced forward
- Our best back missing (+ 2 of our premiership backmen against Geelong)
- Missing one of our best and most improved midfielders (Lambert)
- Missing our surprise package and up and comer midfielder (Ross)
- Lynch is underdone (though still need much to proves against his potential and pay grade)
- Cotchin is underdone
- Higgins in his 2nd year blues
- Rioli is underdone and out of form
- The young players who carried us amazingly through this have to be tiring and have not be able to maintain the rage against experienced bigger fitter bodies (we can't expect Stack, Balta and Baker to amaze us every week and carry us over the line - simply they are too young to sustain this)
- I am sure there are other others reasons I have missed (please fill in the gaps)

It all adds up. Sides know we are vulnerable on experience and know to go hard on contested ball - if they win this stat then they win - both North and Geelong smashed us in the contested ball stat.

We did well for a couple of games undermanned and underdone, however we are vulnerable and now it is showing. Sure all teams have injuries - however we have been gutted of some of our best players in integral positions. As an earlier poster pointed out if Geelong had the equivalent missing they would not be sitting on top.

The positives there is only one way to go, and that is up when some of the above is resolved. Once resolved we will be our formidable self again. Though next week will be another painful episode with Adelaide as we find it too hard at their home ground when we are at full strength :-\ . If the long terms injuries we now carry do go through to the end of the season we won't make finals and we can all take an early holiday. Right now I feel we just need to maintain a steady nerve as a club and supporter base , like we managed to do (just) after 2016 season concluded. - and see what came of that.

To those who are struggling with recent weeks - hold on the best you can, this is an anomaly. Add to this our VFL side sitting at the top of the ladder is a sign as well that our depth is pretty good in times we have been decimated with injuries to many key players.

On the topic of the thread the rebuild has plainly already started with quality finds in youth of Baker, Ross, Balta, Stake and obviously Lynch has been recruited with the long term future in mind. The idea for this rebuild is to do gradually whilst keeping the team finals competitive every year and working to the 'system' - this clearly looks like how we are approaching this. This period of being undermanned has been a fantastic opportunity to showcase the young players to see what they are made of, and who would have expected the 'wow' we have seen from them. It is just so exciting for the new future.

sensible post, perhaps too sensible for some on PRE

 

[Dont Argue]

You Can’t be scared of trading out. Regardless who they’re. Would you trade out Rance 2 first rounders? I would.
Cotchin? I would.
Jack I wouldn’t.
I don’t want a rebuild. We have quality kids but some of our senior players are cooked. I would rather off load them now when they hold some return then wait 12 months, when basically they might have zero value.

So the criteria the club should work with Zips is, if you like them, they stay?

 

[tigers80]

You Can’t be scared of trading out. Regardless who they’re. Would you trade out Rance 2 first rounders? I would.
Cotchin? I would.
Jack I wouldn’t.
I don’t want a rebuild. We have quality kids but some of our senior players are cooked. I would rather off load them now when they hold some return then wait 12 months, when basically they might have zero value.

Are you the illegitimate child of POTUS.
My god the idiocy of your posts are unbelievable.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

some of our senior players are cooked. I would rather off load them now when they hold some return then wait 12 months, when basically they might have zero value.

Who are the "cooked" players with trade value?

 

[TigerFlag2017]

I am impressed most this weekend by the vfl win. Vfl team has been absolutely gutted, yet continues to fight out wins.

Chol was the only key position player in the team and borderline BOG.

Fraser Turner continues to impress. Not this year, but will be a player.

Bolton has gone up five notches this year. Not quite afl level yet but not far off.

But more significantly the vfl program has recruited a very strong secondary list to call on. It must suck being a vfl listed player. Expected to step in when the team is short, and then step aside when the afl list is healthy. Yet mcrae and other coaches have built a vfl club culture despite this, and the players clearly love being the part of the club. Foundations are there for a kid like Nelson to step in and put his name forward as a prospect.

This tells me the club is in a very healthy spot. Bloody hard to stomach these losses, and 2019 is fading away, but the dna of a great club is for all to see.

 

[graystar1]

Does anyone else on here notice that the teams doing well at the moment like the Cats, Crows, Swans, all have talls up forward, and generally have big bodied players.

 

[Jason King]

Does anyone else on here notice that the teams doing well at the moment like the Cats, Crows, Swans, all have talls up forward, and generally have big bodied players.

and dont kick it forward like under 8's ?

 

[gutfull]

Rebuild my asse , we some players ( seniors) back inc junior Ross we are gunna come home strong.
The team will always evolve but the build NO...

 

[TigerForce]

Last two and a half years:

Coach P W L D Win %
------------------------------------
Graham, Jayme 1 1 100.0


How in *smile*'s name did you survive Frawley?

Who??

 

[DavidSSS]

It is clear we have some problems, it is also clear that injuries have been a significant factor in our problems. At present we struggle to be competitive against the good sides but can still win against lesser opposition.

Constant claims of a more even competition are not far off the mark. There are a couple of basket cases but most teams can be competitive. Geez, Sydney beating West Coast, the way Adelaide fell off a cliff in 2018, quite a few instances of teams rising and falling a long way in a short time (Richmond 2017 and Collingwood 2018 the easiest examples to find quickly).

We have lost Rance, Cotchin and Riewoldt for medium to long periods in 2019, these players are stars, stars are not replaceable.

That's not to say there aren't issues.

• We need to get better at winning the ball out of the centre and out of packs. The way Geelong grabbed the ball from congestion and fed it to free players outside exposed this weakness. Cotch back and once he has a few games under his belt, Ross, possibly Stack in the middle in 2020 can help this. Pickett could also help. There are clear moves from the club to address this.
• Our forward entries are not good enough. Very easy to defend against a team who are bombing it in. This relates partly to the above but also we need to be more competitive up forward. Getting the ball to ground and relying on crumbing is a good strategy but the forward line needs to but multi-dimensional. Marking and crumbing need to be paths to goal. We are trying to address this by recruiting a second forward target in Lynch. Caddy is very useful in this regard, leave him up forward I reckon.
• I think we underestimate just how much the really good teams rely on their defence. Look at the way we stopped goals for the last couple of years. The opposition would get it in their forward line, we would stop them scoring. Look at last Friday, forward 50 entries were quite even but we got smashed. This was not just because of the way we got it inside 50, it was also the way Geelong could stop us scoring when we did.

There are issues, they are being worked on, we do have a very impressive batch of young players coming through. Some things have gone wrong, but there is also a hell of a lot being done right.

We're not so much rebuilding as playing on under adversity at the same time as continuing to build back-ups and successors to the current players.

Much better player management and development than we saw for decades, continue to run like this and we will have good and bad years but we will remain competitive. We're also the biggest club in the league, something to be proud of.

DS