Re: Adam Goodes

[Rosy]

I'm not going to play the little game of arguing about whether a dance involving a simulated spear throw is "barbaric". It's trivia, minutiae in the scheme of the debate. He stood up the crowd that was booing him using cultural expression do to so. You are offended, big deal.

.........

Yet again you put words in my mouth. I have not said I am offended. I am not the least bit offended. I don't care what you think about the spear throw. Goodes said it was meant to intimidate. Well and good if he could take some intimidation back but it obviously doesn't work both ways for him.

 

[lukeanddad]

Yet again you put words in my mouth. I have not said I am offended. I am not the least bit offended. I don't care what you think about the spear throw. Goodes said it was meant to intimidate. Well and good if he could take some intimidation back but it obviously doesn't work both ways for him.

You also used the word 'barbaric' which makes me feel very uncomfortable.

That's a straw man argument; more sophistry!

Well done, you win another argument.

#istandwithadam

 

[AngryAnt]

Yet again you put words in my mouth. I have not said I am offended. I am not the least bit offended. I don't care what you think about the spear throw. Goodes said it was meant to intimidate. Well and good if he could take some intimidation back but it obviously doesn't work both ways for him.

Yet again?

 

[Rosy]

You also used the word 'barbaric' which makes me feel very uncomfortable.
......

Why?

 

[Rosy]

Got a link to what he said? Cause what I find him saying is "There was nothing untoward to the Carlton supporters. It was actually something for them to stand up and go, 'yep we see you, and we acknowledge you - bring it on."

Sorry for the delay. I've got 14 days of computer problems ahead of me cos Bigpond have slowed my connection down. It takes minutes to open some pages and some time out instead of opening. I got the quote from another source I can't access at the moment. It's repeated here in Martin Flanagan's article. I trust he hasn't fabricated it.

It was a war dance and, traditionally, war dances invited a response. Goodes said as much: "It's a war cry, it's a battle. It's supposed to
intimidate you, it's supposed to say, 'This is who we are. Come at us.' "

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/adam-goodes-war-dance-must-provoke-conversation-not-confrontation-20150604-ghgkjz.html#ixzz3hd5Yhfcq]

 

[Giardiasis]

Well done, you win another argument.

#istandwithadam

So firstly you complained that those that disagree with you resort to sophistry, and then when it is demonstrated that this was false......you resort to sophistry.

 

[lukeanddad]

So firstly you complained that those that disagree with you resort to sophistry, and then when it is demonstrated that this was false......you resort to sophistry.

I also heard Gerard Henderson mount an argument on Friday on abc radio, using the same approach you have taken. extremely erudite. Also out of touch. The giveaway was when Henderson said that callers who criticised him of being racist clearly didn't know him.

So, the dictionary says your argument is not superficial. I disagree with the dictionary and with you.

 

[Rosy]

........
Why do you feel that scripted speeches are not important? His agenda is pretty clear to me and all his actions support this agenda, whether scripted or not.

.......

More to the point why do you ask me why I feel that scripted speeches are not important? I didn't say that in any way, shape or form.

Scripted speeches are often different from impromptu comments. Look at Abbott for proof of that.

In regards to Adam he didn't say anything like the quote below in his AOTY acceptance speech but he still said it. He also said

Imagine watching a film that tells the truth about the terrible injustices committed over 225 years against your people, a film that reveals how Europeans, and the governments that have run our country, have raped, killed and stolen from your people for their own benefit.
Now imagine how it feels when the people who benefited most from those rapes, those killings and that theft - the people in whose name the oppression was done - turn away in disgust when someone seeks to expose it.

(can't post link at the moment due to connection problems. will edit later)

One of the criteria for AOTY is. Availability and commitment to promote national pride and active citizenship though the year of the recipient's appointment . He said he finds it hard to say he's proud to be Australian.

 

[Rosy]

You also used the word 'barbaric' which makes me feel very uncomfortable.
............

Why does my post make you "feel very uncomfortable" lukeanddad? What was wrong with it?

 

[AngryAnt]

More to the point why do you ask me why I feel that scripted speeches are not important? I didn't say that in any way, shape or form.

Scripted speeches are often different from impromptu comments. Look at Abbott for proof of that.

In regards to Adam he didn't say anything like the quote below in his AOTY acceptance speech but he still said it. He also said

One of the criteria for AOTY is. Availability and commitment to promote national pride and active citizenship though the year of the recipient's appointment . He said he finds it hard to say he's proud to be Australian.

Who serves the country better - the one who exposes uncomfortable truths and tries to fix them or those who wrap themselves in the Australian flag and say "she'll be right mate"?

 

[Giardiasis]

I also heard Gerard Henderson mount an argument on Friday on abc radio, using the same approach you have taken. extremely erudite. Also out of touch. The giveaway was when Henderson said that callers who criticised him of being racist clearly didn't know him.

So, the dictionary says your argument is not superficial. I disagree with the dictionary and with you.

So this is the situation to me. A lot of people are basing their opinions on metaphysical constructs because they either haven't confronted logically correct arguments, they haven't thought about it too hard, or because they don't like the conclusions of logical deduction. The appeal to metaphysical notions is vain in the context of a logical examination of scientific problems such as the psychology of the booers, and the validity of the racial worldview.

Until we start to value science and logical deduction, people will continue to confuse, obfuscate and resort to sophism to support a worldview that they feel is right. Racism needs to be defeated by science, not by false counter worldviews that are just as wrong as the racial worldview that different people are superior or inferior because of their skin colour.

 

[tigersnake]

So this is the situation to me. A lot of people are basing their opinions on metaphysical constructs because they either haven't confronted logically correct arguments, they haven't thought about it too hard, or because they don't like the conclusions of logical deduction. The appeal to metaphysical notions is vain in the context of a logical examination of scientific problems such as the psychology of the booers, and the validity of the racial worldview.

Until we start to value science and logical deduction, people will continue to confuse, obfuscate and resort to sophism to support a worldview that they feel is right. Racism needs to be defeated by science, not by false counter worldviews that are just as wrong as the racial worldview that different people are superior or inferior because of their skin colour.

Bloody hell. Do you actually believe this stuff?

 

[bruntonave.]

Pretending to spear people is barbaric behaviour...if white people pretended to shoot him with a shot gun I'd think the same.

Please!

It's not barbaric. And they're not the same.

 

[Rosy]

Please!

It's not barbaric. And they're not the same.

Barbaric:
Primitive or unsophisticated; unrestrained

Marked by crudeness or lack of sophistication:

Very rude or offensive

Not polite or proper

You are entitled to your opinion. It's a reenactment of barbaric behaviour from a different lifetime. Blacks and whites don't shoot and spear each other these days as far as I'm aware. What is to be gained by trying to intimidate people by aiming a spear at them? I didn't approve of Mark Williams shot gun. I didn't approve of Dusty's handcuffs. I didn't approve of Ben Cousins gesture to the camera. I don't approve of players, including Indigenous ones heaven forbid, deliberately trying to intimidate the crowd with simulated acts of aggression.

I don't discriminate based on race. Should be same rules for all.

 

[Rosy]

....... And they're not the same.

I didn't say they were the same. It's obvious they're not the same. I said I'd think the same. Either scenario is unacceptable to me.

 

[lukeanddad]

Barbaric:
Primitive or unsophisticated; unrestrained

Marked by crudeness or lack of sophistication:

Very rude or offensive

Not polite or proper

You are entitled to your opinion. It's a reenactment of barbaric behaviour from a different lifetime. Blacks and whites don't shoot and spear each other these days as far as I'm aware. What is to be gained by trying to intimidate people by aiming a spear at them? I didn't approve of Mark Williams shot gun. I didn't approve of Dusty's handcuffs. I didn't approve of Ben Cousins gesture to the camera. I don't approve of players, including Indigenous ones heaven forbid, deliberately trying to intimidate the crowd with simulated acts of aggression.

I don't discriminate based on race. Should be same rules for all.

 

[IanG]

Funny. You must have included the anonymous claim for a reason.

Can you please elaborate in regards to the misrepresented events.

Look at the reports this week in the major outlets

 

[Rosy]

Look at the reports this week in the major outlets

Too many take whatever is said in the media as gospel. Much better you point out the misrepresentations you were referring to rather than others guess at what you meant.

P.S. Do you accept now that Adam said his behaviour was meant to intimidate?

 

[IanG]

Too many take whatever is said in the media as gospel. Much better you point out the misrepresentations you were referring to rather than others guess at what you meant.

P.S. Do you accept now that Adam said his behaviour was meant to intimidate?

Nope you;re making a too literal interpretation, and there's what I quoted.

 

[Rosy]

Nope you;re making a too literal interpretation, and there's what I quoted.

Not sure which part of my post you're referring to there.

Fair enough if can't tell us what you meant by what you thought was an anonymous persons misrepresentations. Not surprised if that's the case.

Or did you mean Adam said it's meant to intimidate but to think actually he meant is is too literal an interpretation?