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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Re: Adam Goodes
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
Arguments that the booing isn't materially due to racism is not sophistry.lukeanddad said:
In any case this is a different issue to the question of perception. I don't recall anyone disputing that many people have bought into the booing is racist argument.
I would put it this way: No person can tell another person how to behave if they want their message heard.lukeanddad said:
rosy23 said:
Link added, thanks Rosy.
Why do you feel that scripted speeches are not important? His agenda is pretty clear to me and all his actions support this agenda, whether scripted or not.
Here's my understanding of Adam's position.
1. He considers himself Australian like the rest of us.
2. He is proud of his indigenous heritage but it doesn't make him any less Australian or think less of other Australians of different backgrounds.
3. He wants us all of whatever colour/race/religion to get along. He doesn't care if you are white/black/Greek/Maco/Lebanese Australian - as long as we can respect each other.
4. He wants us as a society to consider the situation of indigenous Australians and actively work towards improving that condition - of course this applies to himself and other indigenous Australians which is why he has spent a lot of personal time working with indigenous groups - for example working with indigenous youth in detention centres.
5. As part of this, he wants us all to stand up against racism and division. He has made a personal commitment to do so himself. If we think racism is bad, we need to stand up and say so. No more sitting down, feeling bad inside but doing nothing about it.
I've never been a big Goodes fan on the footy field - particularly in his later years with staging and occasional sniping. But this has gone way beyond what I think of him as a player now. It's a bigger issue and has exposed how racism is not just a conscious act but is tied to our basic cultural practices in ways we often don't realise.
We saw a fantastic reaction from all AFL clubs and players yesterday. Jetta, Thomas, Nathan Jones, Richmond FC - both black and white players who have spent a lot of time with indigenous colleagues, more than most of us have, stood up, kissed their aboriginal flags, did their aboriginal dances, kissed their black/gold/red wrist bands. They feel it. They know it.
Now you can keep on pretending that it's not about race, it's just about football or that you just don't like Goodes' personality or "the way he goes about it". That's up to you.
But I stand with Adam Goodes.
#istandwithadam
Giardiasis said:
Its not a false assertion. Regardless of how much earnest dogma you trot out.
Giardiasis said:
Yeah ... it is sophistry.
antman said:
... it's that simple.
We can all make a choice.
That's the funny thing, I'm using argumentative logic as the basis of my reasoning, and you accuse me of dogma? Ok, let's concede it is dogma. Is that actually the important point? The correctness of the argument is of most importance I would have thought no?tigersnake said:
noun, plural sophistries.bruntonave. said:
1.
a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2.
a false argument; sophism.
Using the association fallacy is by definition, sophistry.
Giardiasis said:
Yep. That's what all the drivel defending the booing and attacking Goodes sounds like.
antman said:
So why deliberately try to intimidate the crowd with a taunt he wouldn't do to the opposition with another Indigenous Australian?
He has failed bigtime if he is standing up to division yet behaving the way he has.
Pretending to spear people is barbaric behaviour...if white people pretended to shoot him with a shot gun I'd think the same. Both behaviours of primitive and violent people many years ago. Nott a bit relevant to games of football now.
I find people who try to use the "he threw a spear at us" argument so laughable. No matter how eloquently your argument is made, it just sounds ridiculous.
You must be so scared of so many things. I hope your kids never played with pretend guns when they were little......
You must be so scared of so many things. I hope your kids never played with pretend guns when they were little......
rosy23 said:
I'm not going to play the little game of arguing about whether a dance involving a simulated spear throw is "barbaric". It's trivia, minutiae in the scheme of the debate. He stood up the crowd that was booing him using cultural expression do to so. You are offended, big deal.
Why do you think all other teams and many other players are standing with him now? Why do you think the majority of fans are now applauding him and showing respect?
I would suggest it's because the majority is now saying enough is enough. We've all had fun booing him because we don't like the way he plays, we don't like that he brings politics into sport and some of don't like him because he's an outspoken aboriginal man. There is a spectrum. But, it's enough. Time to stop.
I'm proud of the club that I love taking this stand with Adam and support them 100% - along with the players and crowds from other games who supported him yesterday.
I stand with Shed, Ivan and Adam.
Where do you stand?
