Re: Adam Goodes | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Re: Adam Goodes

glantone said:
I’m sure he’s appreciative though wouldn't expect him to thank Richmond as you wondered. Supporting Goodes is no skin off Richmond’s or anyone’s nose surely. The fact that supporting Goodes is seen as such a big deal in our community is interesting…..

On racism, my son was on a Melbourne tram recently and some dude on the tram pointed out a muslim woman and referred to her as a towel head in his conversation with his mate. One solitary strap hanger took a stand and said ‘’hey that’s racist. You can’t talk about that lady like that.’’ The next thing someone else said ‘’yeah, we don’t want to ride with a racist, p!ss off.’’ By the next stop and with the support of most of the tram the racist was walking. Hahahaa! Empathy and activism – makes the world go round.

As for karma.....haven't seen one shred of that stuff on this planet in my life time.

Well hopefully the sideshow's over and Goodesy rejoins his team next week and accepts that Eagles supporters will boo anything that moves, and that people in the public eye are not universally loved, especially when mixing politics with their specialty. While most bear him no malice, he shouldn't expect the boos to turn to cheers, either.
 
Giardiasis said:
I know you didn't say that I was responsible for those crimes, what you did say was that I represent the part of Australian society who was responsible. So can you please explain why I represent that?
My exact words were "We do represent the part of Australian society who did and we do have the responsibility to ensure that our indigenous brothers recognise what was done was wrong and that Australian society is not like that anymore.

"We" meaning me as a white Australian and others like me,I can't speak for you. We represent it because we are who we are, white Australians. We can have an intellectual discussion about it but that is all irrelevant because all of us are responsible for inclusiveness in our society. My view has always been that the ultimate inclusiveness is treating everyone the same whilst at the same time recognising cultural differences. I have lived and worked all over the world and I came to a view a long time ago that the similarities between humans are far greater than their differences. You have alluded to a view that ultimately we are all humans and not wanting to put people in racial groups and I agree with that philosophy absolutely. Believing in that doesn't change the reality that racial divides exist however.

We may think that we don't or shouldn't represent white Australia but that won't change the reality that we do.

Symbols and actions matter in all of this. Things like recognising in our constitution that humans existed in Australia before European settlement matter, as an example. They matter because they matter to indigenous Australians.

I would love a society where we don't even look at or consider race. I love the way little children don't even see race and I wish we all could be that way, but we aren't.
 
I said brilliant because it supports what I've been saying a bit on this thread Glanton. Some keep saying how Indigenous people feel and lumping them all in together. That article shows it's not the case at all. Someone else was challenged for saying not all Indigenous people agree on this. They are individuals with different feelings, upbringings, opinions etc. They don't all think the same at all and I am happy Dallas Scott, a journo I admire, posted from his own Indigenous perspective.


Here's another one.

Tuesday, 5 August 2014

Adam Goodes - ensuring racism as a sport


We can all learn a lesson or two from Adam Goodes.

What began as an insult thrown by a child during a football match has turned into an epic saga, drawing in and devouring plenty in its wake. It didn’t need to be like this, but apparently over-reacting has spread like the common cold.

Goodes was the first to fall ill. During a football match, he heard insults directed at him, one of which was ‘ape’. Able to identify the culprit, he pointed her out and security removed the girl from her seat and gave her a lecture for a few hours. The media seized, the family were shamed, branded and humiliated, and ignorant people everywhere patted themselves on the back that their vitriolic revenge was justified in the name of stamping out racism in this country.

When it turned out that the young girl was a Collingwood supporter, Eddie was next to fall ill. He was immediately outraged and disgusted, telling all who would listen that he and his club would not tolerate racism. Sadly for Eddie, his ability to moderate a situation that was not yet at ‘code red’ down to a mere ‘whoops’ was either ravaged by the virus or unable to operate in tandem with any mention of race, and he was jumping on the bandwagon in full. The girl was made a pariah, and Eddie was hailed a friend to black guys everywhere…until of course, he made the same fundamental human error that the 13 year old girl had made herself. Suddenly, he was the pariah, and after coming out against ‘racism’ so strongly, he was left with nowhere to go and worse, he couldn’t claim to be underage OR unaware as an excuse for his ‘crime’.

And just what was the crime? To suggest that Adam Goodes might do well to get on board and promote a musical called ‘King Kong’. In typical Eddie fashion, he saw a way to make a buck out of a drama. Who else has done more to make apes famous than Adam Goodes in this country I ask you? It’s what I would have suggested if Adam Goodes had asked me how to climb out of the hole he was fast digging for himself at that point. Find the humour in the situation and show people that despite the controversy, you are not so invested in yourself that you can’t play any other role than the victim. Save your outrage and hurt feelings for the times when you’ve really, truly been vilified, rather than when you’re called a name by a kid as a grown man.

Who knows, if you show other people you are capable of finding the humour in things, you might not end up feeling so hurt and victimised yourself. That is a lonely life that only isolates you from others as your constant inability to forgive minor social transgressions will slowly but surely turn all but the most loyal from wanting to be a part of your life. They’ll all screw up at some point, everyone does, and the ones you haven’t driven away by a one-man jury verdict of ‘racist’ will eventually flee when they tire of your constant need to pick apart their comments like a paranoid crack addict through garbage.

Was all the hysteria worth it?

It was a 13 year old girl. A child. Someone who is entitled to privacy, and to the childhood right of making mistakes and behaving poorly at times without the entire country knowing their name, transgression, and labelling them as anything based on a few moments of their behaviour. No name she called anybody justifies the treatment she received. Those involved in the public shaming of this girl did not take a stand against racism, they frightened a child repeatedly, and made judgements about her family in public.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been called an ape, a monkey (as well as the more outdoorsy themed ‘porch monkey’) and plenty of other insults that I could easily say were used as a ‘racial slur’ against me. That does not stop me, however, from referring to myself these days - as I go through the aging process and attract more grey hairs - as ‘Silverback’. I like monkeys, I’m a hairy bloke, and I should be free to use whatever nicknames I like for myself. I tell my friends to do the same. It doesn’t mean I’m ignorant of the ‘historical context’ of hurt feelings of Aboriginal people over the years (the typical argument brought forth when you suggest ‘ape’ should not be a censored word), but that I’d rather use logic and reason instead of emotion when it comes to stuff like this. Logic tells me that when I’ve been called a name, it’s almost always because someone wanted to take a cheap shot and was angry or frustrated or wanting to appear superior, or some other powerful emotion that tends to blur our logical thought processes. Being that I’m easily identifiable as Aboriginal, the cheap shot will usually take the form of a racial slur. For others, it might be based on their weight, hair colour, appearance, religion, skin colour – it seems as humans we find a million ways to see differences in one another and separate ourselves according to those, and it would seem there is nobody who is immune from this.

As for Adam, well, in the end, I think he got what he really wanted. Before the game, he spoke of Nicky Winmar and his now historic stand against racism. As a man whose days are numbered at the top of his game, he really wants to be remembered like Nicky was. He wants a legacy. And as he inches closer to retirement from football, a job afterwards would be nice – perhaps the victim theatrics were just his way of auditioning for a job in the Industry. Viewing his performance from that angle, I give him an A++. They’re gonna love him. As for me, I can’t look up to you Adam. I’m ashamed of the way a child was used as a pawn to achieve your goal, and you should be too.
 
Sintiger said:
........
I would love a society where we don't even look at or consider race. I love the way little children don't even see race and I wish we all could be that way, but we aren't.

I don't think Adam Goodes and the AFL are helping that situation at all.
 
Sintiger said:
My exact words were "We do represent the part of Australian society who did and we do have the responsibility to ensure that our indigenous brothers recognise what was done was wrong and that Australian society is not like that anymore.

"We" meaning me as a white Australian and others like me,I can't speak for you. We represent it because we are who we are, white Australians. We can have an intellectual discussion about it but that is all irrelevant because all of us are responsible for inclusiveness in our society. My view has always been that the ultimate inclusiveness is treating everyone the same whilst at the same time recognising cultural differences. I have lived and worked all over the world and I came to a view a long time ago that the similarities between humans are far greater than their differences. You have alluded to a view that ultimately we are all humans and not wanting to put people in racial groups and I agree with that philosophy absolutely. Believing in that doesn't change the reality that racial divides exist however.

We may think that we don't or shouldn't represent white Australia but that won't change the reality that we do.

Symbols and actions matter in all of this. Things like recognising in our constitution that humans existed in Australia before European settlement matter, as an example. They matter because they matter to indigenous Australians.

I would love a society where we don't even look at or consider race. I love the way little children don't even see race and I wish we all could be that way, but we aren't.
I just don't understand why you think just because you are white, that means that you personally represent English settlement of Australia. I am assuming you have an English background? Where do you draw the line of this representation? If someone has an Aboriginal grandparent, but the rest of their family is English, does this absolve them of representation?

I think this whole focus on such a bogus concept as race is taking us down the wrong path. Just because many people chose to think about people down racial divides does not mean we should pander to these arguments. This is my major beef with AGs philosophy, because he wants to focus on racial division.
 
Giardiasis said:
I just don't understand why you think just because you are white, that means that you personally represent English settlement of Australia. I am assuming you have an English background? Where do you draw the line of this representation? If someone has an Aboriginal grandparent, but the rest of their family is English, does this absolve them of representation?

I think this whole focus on such a bogus concept as race is taking us down the wrong path. Just because many people chose to think about people down racial divides does not mean we should pander to these arguments. This is my major beef with AGs philosophy, because he wants to focus on racial division.
Irish. We fought against those English dogs ;D

Our views are very similar in philosophy just not in practice. The difference is that whilst I agree 100% that dividing by race is an intellectually bogus concept and I wish it wasn't so, the reality is different. I believe we have to accept that reality, deal with it as best we can and then at the same time treat people as humans rather than black, blue, green and yellow.
 
Sintiger said:
Irish. We fought against those English dogs ;D

Our views are very similar in philosophy just not in practice. The difference is that whilst I agree 100% that dividing by race is an intellectually bogus concept and I wish it wasn't so, the reality is different. I believe we have to accept that reality, deal with it as best we can and then at the same time treat people as humans rather than black, blue, green and yellow.
:hihi

Ok, fair enough, I just hope you don't feel that you can't articulate that position because someone accused you of being racist.
 
Here's the transcript of Adam's AOTY speech.

THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE ADAM GOODES 2014 AUSTRALIAN OF THE YEAR ACCEPTANCE SPEECH

“It’s an honour to win an award for doing stuff that you love and that you believe in. For me, I chose that life is all about actions and interactions. I believe that our choices and how we interact with each other creates our relationships and this in turn creates the environment that we live in.

Our environment shapes our communities which then shapes the country that we all live in. Growing up as an indigenous Australian I have experienced my fair share of racism. While it has been difficult a lot of the time, it has also taught me a lot and also shaped my values and what I believe in today. I believe racism is a community issue which we all need to address and that’s why racism stops with me.

There are always two ways we can look at a situation. We can choose to get angry. Or not. We can choose to help others. Or not. Or choose to be offended. Or not. We can keep our silence or educate ourselves and others about racism and minority populations.

It is not just about taking responsibility for your own actions but speaking to your mates when they take out their anger on their loved ones, minority groups or make racist remarks. It means treating people the way you want to be treated, whether that’s your manners, the way you talk to people, whether they are your loved ones or the person serving your dinner. It’s about how you choose to give back and make a difference to those around you, your community or your country that goes outside of just yourself.

I believe we are all connected whether we like it or not. We are all equal and the same in so many ways. My hope is that we as a nation can break down the silos between races, break down those stereotypes of minority populations, indigenous populations and all other minority groups. I hope we can be proud of our heritage regardless of the colour of our skin and be proud to be Australian.

I’m not here to tell you what to think, or how to act to raise your children. All I’m here to do is tell you about my experiences and hope you choose to be aware of your actions and interactions so that together we can eliminate racism.

I’m so grateful for this award and this honour, however the real reward is when everyone is talking to their mates, to their families and their children, having those conversations and educating others about racism. What it looks like, how hurtful and how pointless it is and how we can eliminate it.

The ultimate reward is when all Australians see each other as equals and treat each other as equals. To me, everything is about people and the choices we make. I believe it’s the people and the interactions between us that makes this country so special. Thank you so much and have a great Australia Day.”

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-angry-about-the-adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-you-might-like-to-check-your-facts/story-fndv7pj3-1227463277546

I see a lot there that's inclusive, sees us all as Australians together regardless of colour or race. I see there is also stuff about reconciliation and ending racism, not promoting it.

Make up your own minds.
 
Chiang Mai Tiger said:
For some reason this guy (bruntonave) is like a bee sting on the arse, he just wont go away and stop demanding responses from anyone daring to post on this thread.

Okay ... people ought be able to post without fear of reply?
 
rosy23 said:
I said brilliant because it supports what I've been saying a bit on this thread Glanton. Some keep saying how Indigenous people feel and lumping them all in together. That article shows it's not the case at all. Someone else was challenged for saying not all Indigenous people agree on this. They are individuals with different feelings, upbringings, opinions etc. They don't all think the same at all and I am happy Dallas Scott, a journo I admire, posted from his own Indigenous perspective.


Here's another one.

Tuesday, 5 August 2014

Adam Goodes - ensuring racism as a sport

An anonymous poster completely misrepresenting what happened on that day.
 
antman said:
Here's the transcript of Adam's AOTY speech.


I see a lot there that's inclusive, sees us all as Australians together regardless of colour or race. I see there is also stuff about reconciliation and ending racism, not promoting it.

Make up your own minds.

Could you edit and include a link please antman.

That speech has been discussed on here. I don't recall anyone disagreeing with it. It was obviously a scripted speech for a specific occasion and great consideration was given to the wording. Why are people on here focusing on it?
 
IanG said:
An anonymous poster completely misrepresenting what happened on that day.

Who is an anonymous poster? Surely you're not referring to Dallas Scott who wrote those blogs?
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
........ Eagles supporters will boo anything that moves,.....

Yep. The Coodabeen Champions discussed and sang along about that yesterday. They were obviously referring to a very topical situation but they referred to Judd being booed years ago rather than Goodes in recent times. Boo boo boo goes the Subiaco crowd and the best booers in the land according to their segment. They treated the topic in a light hearted matter that to me indicated it was more theatre than anything.

This kerfuffle and the racism claims blew up after an Eagles booing session but as the Coodabeens suggested it's what they're good at and have been for many years. Not sure they need a real reason in their minds and it's a big, and conveneint, call to suggest it's due to racism.
 
rosy23 said:
Why are they lame? Do you think it achieved anything positive for our Indigenous population for one of them to intimidate people with a pretend spear? Why is it ok for some to do symbolic gestures to the crowd and not for others to? Why is it aimed at the opposition supporters rather than the opposition team? Why if it's a war dance wouldn't it apply to Indigenous players on the opposition team? As Adam said "it's war". Why wasn't it performed to the opposition team?

Did it really 'intimidate' anyone? Of course not.

Yes. It's a symbolic gesture, repeated BTW by Jeff Garlett at the 'G yesterday.

What it symbolises is what's at the heart of this:

The foundational narrative of australia as a national culture.

We can't agree on the story or how to view it; is there a generational injustice that we need to work hard and long to face and fix?

Or should we 'get over it' and 'move on'?

Indigenous australia is not over it, they're still suffering the effects of it, and they're not moving anywhere.
 
bruntonave. said:
Did it really 'intimidate' anyone? Of course not.

That means it was a failure on Adam's behalf then because he said it was a war cry and supposed to intimidate the crowd.

What do you think about him confronting the crowd like this rather than to the opposition team which he wouldn't do because it had an Indigenous player? Do you think it's appropriate that Cousins and Dusty and others were fined and warned for their gestures, gestures which weren't pre-planned and designed to intimidate the opposition? I think the discrimination has been a real negative on reconciliation and treating everyone equally. You can't have rules for some and rules for others based on race.
 
rosy23 said:
I think the discrimination has been a real negative on reconciliation and treating everyone equally.

This thing is not about treating everyone equally.

It's not about 'racism' or being polite to people who are different.

It's about australia's history and how that makes australia's present and future.
 
Out of all this saga I hope one thing is learnt by AFL players an that is we don't like divers/ stagers an sooks in our game , yep I know there's more to this but largely I think fans who have booed Goodes (never booed in my life, reckon it's for kids) have built there disrespect for him starting with his diving and sniping acts.

Great to see the AFL community form as one again no matter what the cause....greatest game in the world
 
rosy23 said:
Who is an anonymous poster? Surely you're not referring to Dallas Scott who wrote those blogs?

No name put to it go to profile and there's no name, if he identifies himself elsewhere how am I supposed to know.
 
bruntonave. said:
This thing is not about treating everyone equally.

It's not about 'racism' or being polite to people who are different.

It's about australia's history and how that makes australia's present and future.
Make no mistake, international commentators viewing last weekend and its aftermath will view our behavior as racist, at best.

No amount of sophistry by liberals will change this perception. No white person can tell a person of a different color how to behave if they want their message heard.

I'm pleased that goodies has made some of us uncomfortable. I'm sad it has scarred him.