Re: Adam Goodes

[Rosy]

..... Sam Newman donned blackface, deliberately badly, still had the shoepolish, and prentended to be Nicky Winmar, and raved on about how he had gone walkabout. It amazes me how anyone would think that wasn't racist.

.....

Ok so you've elaborated a bit on what Ian said. Did Sam highlight the shoe polish he still had? I read it was face paint. What did Nicky have to say about it? He still went on the show but I didn't see it.

By definition anyone who differentiates on the basis of race is racist. Adam Goodes has been racist. The AFL have been racist. I agreed with Goodes' comments about Indigenous players being that bit more in tune with the game...not overall imo but liking the magic and instinct I sometimes see...so I am racist. Most on here seems to be differentiating due to race. I'd be surprised if there was anyone who wasn't a bit racist. Fact is races do have differences as well as similarities. Treating them differently because of them is more where the racism is a concern imo.


I think the AFL have set reconciliation back by their stance and different treatment of people. To me all AFL players should be treated equally as footballers. They shouldn't be highlighted and identified by their race. Football is supposed to be a game not a political stage. People will never be the same when segregation is actively

 

[Rosy]

.....
PS: Why are people complaining about others calling out racism and then asking why is blackface (at the very least) insulting?

I had never even heard the term "blackface" before. As I've just asked what did Nicky Winmar say about it? I'd be very interested to know that rather than what a few posters on a tin pot forum think about it.

 

[Rosy]

It's not plain and simple imo.

In my mind the AFL have encouraged racism and segregation. They've handled this situation poorly by having rules for some and different rules for others. If other players have been fined and/or disclipined for acts symbolising aggression towards the crowd it should also apply to indigenous Australians, and vice versa if the situation applies. They're a massive divide in not only condoning, but also encouraging, Aboriginals to pretend to spear the crowd in an intimidating cry of war. It's no different from symbolic shotguns or rude gesture.

You said (paraphrasing) it was understandable ferals booed Matty White for being a mercenary chasing the money. Would it be as easily understood if he was an Aboriginal player being booed for a similar thing?

It's not that simple when different rules apply to different races. It's disgraceful anyone differentiates due to skin colour. The AFL, Adam Goodes and those agreeing with it included.

If you don't want to answer my question I probably understand but just bumping it in case you missed it in traffic.

 

[Jason King]

So I can never go to a costume party as Michael Jackson because its racist to the whole black race if I paint my face black just to simply get closer to looking like the real thing?

That is correct. Life is sure hard when you cant wear black face paint isnt it? I mean wearing a rhinestone glove, red jacket, leather pants, long curly wig and a hat isnt enough?

That's a strange answer. What is wrong with people if they cannot understand the context of certain things as impersonating a specific person with the intent of having fun at a party. ???

Because it is not about you. Its about cultural and racial sensitivity. Understanding that blackface was brought about by stupid, racist white people as a way of making fun of coloured people.

 

[Chimptastic]

Google 'why is blackface offensive?' and you'll get plenty of info

Basically, it started in the 1830's, in the United States, from the Minstrel Shows perpetuating extremely negative stereotypes about black people. Some people in the 21st century remember those shows, and get offended at reminders to this truly racist and hurtful form of entertainment from the 19th century.

That's the first reason that pops up on Google. I'm sure there are more, but that's the big one, historially. It does raise interesting questions about how long history should offend the current civilisation. I can understand it's easier for a white person be someone who says let's move on.

Personally, I think if you didn't live through it yourself, and you don't know anybody who lived through it themselves, then by nature part of any of the offensive taken is in the individual mind. Each individual handles it differently. Some couldn't care less today. Others get extremely emotionally. Like anything in life, a wide range of people experience a wide range of reactions to the same issue. Over time, a decreasing number of people feel as offended as the previous generations of people felt.

I've got my own theories on the deeper issues at play. Stop reading if you're not interested in a critical, artsy look at the long-term picture.

My guess at the deeper issue (and that's all it is, a guess) is that Indigenous people feel a special type of threat not experienced by most people. The threat of losing their identity completely within approximately 500-1000 years. A deep, genetically-based instinct only experienced when you face a type of extinction. If true (and it makes sense on an evolutionary level), such a feeling could manifest itself in many ways. From clinging to history and wanting it remembered and preserved, to a powerful emotional reaction to some things that hint at an injustice on the basis of race. I think it's possible that the backdrop of this whole debate is filtered by the long-term dilution of the Indigenous gene pool, and the incomprehensible sense of extinction that has the potential to send feelings on particular race-related issues to a zone of fight or flight. There even appears to be a slight desperation to manufacture cultural tradition, such as the imaginary spear throwing and subsequent rejection of this unknown meme being interpreted by some individuals as a deeper reminder of society not accepting/understanding enough of their traditional culture in general. Just my random theory, be nice.

 

[Rosy]

Jason Mifsud is discussing all indigenous players do the war dance in future and making a statement. He said suggested all players perform a similar thing. I wonder how it would be accepted if non Aboriginal Australians play acted spearing humans especially as a pre-conceived way to intimidate the supporters.

 

[tigersnake]

Basically, it started in the 1830's, in the United States, from the Minstrel Shows perpetuating extremely negative stereotypes about black people.

Went for over 100 years, Started to die out in the late 1930s but lingered into the 1970s. So late 20th C, chimp, not 19th C. Like I said, the just get over it, stop playing the victim, I'm not racist side of the debate would have you believe racism is all ancient history. It ain't. If it was, this thread would be deader than the Sipthorp thread.

 

[Chelsea]

That is correct. Life is sure hard when you cant wear black face paint isnt it? I mean wearing a rhinestone glove, red jacket, leather pants, long curly wig and a hat isnt enough?

Because it is not about you. Its about cultural and racial sensitivity. Understanding that blackface was brought about by stupid, racist white people as a way of making fun of coloured people.

That would not be my intent though Jason King!
I think people's intentions and context should be taken into consideration before a blanket accusation is cast.
It is the same with Goodes.
I never booed Goodes because of his race. However I have been labelled a racist.
I think people are being quite silly about this now.

 

[Jason King]

That would not be my intent though Jason King!
I think people's intentions and context should be taken into consideration before a blanket accusation is cast.
It is the same with Goodes.
I never booed Goodes because of his race. However I have been labelled a racist.
I think people are being quite silly about this now.

I agree about intentions Chelsea. Not everyone who booed Goodes is racist, but surely we are all smart enough and big enough human beings to notice when something has gone too far.

Do you boo Goodes whenever he has the ball or only when he staged for a free kick?

 

[bruntonave.]

Is Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond related to Adam Goodes?
They do not play for the same club and as far as I know Edwards and Drummond have not been booed by fans.
I do not see how they could be personally affected by this.

And yet they are.

So there is something here that you're not seeing.

 

[bruntonave.]

Do people seriously think people disapprove of him being Aboriginal rather than of his behaviour regardless of his colour?

It's not about 'colour'. It's not about the way he plays. It's about his outspokenness.

If you don't like that, explain why, and why it's ok to book it.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

People are actually defending blackface in this thread.

It didn't bother this bloke.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/tri-nations/samo-defends-fans-blackface-tribute-20110828-1jgwa.html

Yet some took it upon themselves to be offended on his behalf.

Harry Connick can GAGF.

 

[IanG]

That would not be my intent though Jason King!
I think people's intentions and context should be taken into consideration before a blanket accusation is cast.
It is the same with Goodes.
I never booed Goodes because of his race. However I have been labelled a racist.

How is Goodes meant to discern intent?

And no-one on this thread has called you racist.

And on blackface Rosy I haven't responded because others have responded exactly as I would have.

 

[bruntonave.]

Two steps back in reconciliation and the game and a champion's legacy ruined all because of his actions

Which actions?

 

[Chimptastic]

Went for over 100 years, Started to die out in the late 1930s but lingered into the 1970s. So late 20th C, chimp, not 19th C. Like I said, the just get over it, stop playing the victim, I'm not racist side of the debate would have you believe racism is all ancient history. It ain't. If it was, this thread would be deader than the Sipthorp thread.

Agree it's not ancient history, but I do think it is history. It goes back to the question of how long history should influence the modern day. There's no hard answer for that.

Ironically, the recent discussions on racism have emerged from non-racist behaviour. It's a sign civilisation has moved significantly forward. Consider this:

100 years ago - the discussion was "Why shouldn't we paint our faces black and portray black people as baffoons?"

Now it's become "Why shouldn't we boo this one particular guy (out of 72)? How is that racist?"

 

[bruntonave.]

I am a rebel.

So is Adam Goodes

 

[Rosy]

And yet they are.

So there is something here that you're not seeing.

In what way? It must be obvious to them that they're not being booed because they are not being booed. They haven't behaved like Adam Goodes and got into the faces of other people. Maybe they are or maybe they're not affected. I don't know. I find the claims on here that every indigenous player feels like they are being booed too quite ludicrous. It's a pretty big assumption that because they are all Indigenous Australians they are all affected the same way. There are individuals in every group of people. Different morals. Different beliefs. Different backgrounds. Different thoughts. Different tolerances and acceptances.

 

[bruntonave.]

You completely lack compassion towards the 80% who feel it's not racist and are thus falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

Sure, they're the real victims.

 

[Chimptastic]

There are individuals in every group of people. Different morals. Different beliefs. Different backgrounds. Different thoughts. Different tolerances and acceptances.

Yep, people forget there is more difference within any single race, than between any two races.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

have a look at the mortality, incarceration, employment rates of the indigenous population and then tell me if you think it's a narrow divide.

Yet this is supposedly due to a racist establishment dedicated to keeping the Aboriginal down... the same establishment that has circled the wagons around Goodes.