Re: Adam Goodes

[Baloo]

If you don't want to answer my question I probably understand but just bumping it in case you missed it in traffic.

What question is that ? Would the Matty White booing be racist if he was black ? A hypothetical question because a) Matty's not White and b) the booing was nowhere near the scale, veracity and length of time that Goodes is copping. And it would only have come from RFC supporters. Goodes is copping it from the supporters of every team.

As I said above in a response to ninja, but must have got missed in the traffic, if the Goodes booing was only happening when he did something to displease people on the park then I don't think anyone a real handle to call it race related. But the constant, angry abuse he cops everytime he has the ball is over the top.

To me it is a simple matter of ignorance. Not deliberate ignorance but ignorance none the less. My parents struggle with my Asian wife. They don't mean to be racist, they are genuinely enquiring about things because they don't know any better. My wife understands the context and is fine by it. But it certainly has made me cringe at times.

A bit like blackface. People don't know why it's wrong so they believe it's fine when in fact it's wrong. A bit like half-caste. "caste" is a class system, not a racial system. The connotations of half-caste is that the person is over a lower class. But not knowing that doesn't make a person deliberately racist or mean, but I would hope that once pointed out that it's taken onboard and not misused.

I once called an Englishman of Indian descent and I called him a Paki. I was shocked and the anger that generated. Another guy took my aside and explained what the term "Paki" typicaly meant in England. Despite knowing I had no intention at all to be racist, I went up, apologised and I have, done it since. I was ignorant.

 

[Chimptastic]

Nice post, TT.

If anyone can successfully accuse and brand another person with a moral crime with no evidence but their own solitary perception, then clearly it relies far too heavily on the accuracy of each individual's perception of their treatment by others. Just about everybody on the planet has personalities and perceptions that are not 100% accurate.

Nevertheless, in about 3 hours from now, every single one of us diehard Richmond supporters will be 100% united as we cheer on our mighty Tigers against the Hawks. This sport has the capacity to bring people together more than any debate. Let's take anti-racism back to the subtle, uniting power of sport itself to encourage the public to adopt better values (in times when their values need changing) rather than pointing the finger at shadows and casting blame in the manner of a massive flog.

 

[Chimptastic]

Yeah. Why not. Stopping the booing and supporting efforts to do so would be a good start.

You didn't answer my question.

How often should one feel guilt: Every year? Every month? Every day?
How long should this continue: After 10 years? After 20 years? After you die?

Ps. I agree the booing should now stop out of respect for everyone's feelings.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

You don't have to feel anything.

Rudd apologised specifically for the stolen children. That was a start, not the end.

You can acknowledge aboriginal dispossession and disadvantage and accept it as something we all have responsibility to mend.

Or not.

Its up to you.

As said, I've acknowledged it to myself. I can't change history. I rarely have interaction with Aboriginals. I made a donation the other day to an Aboriginal education foundation which I will consider making an annual thing. The rest is up to Aboriginals themselves.

 

[Rosy]

You didn't answer my question.

......

There's a fair bit of that happening here for some strange reason. :rofl

 

[Total Tiger]

How?

I guess in his more combative approach to making essentially the same point. Take the famous Nicky Winmar photo at Victoria Park as an example. Nicky Winmar made the most powerful point without uttering one word of accusation. He was proud of himself and who he was. His finger was pointed to himself and we all stopped and thought, understood what he was trying to say and began the process of changing our thoughts and behaviour. Adam Goodes points his fingers at others. He chooses to label people. It's confrontational and his point gets lost because people have their backs up.

 

[Rosy]

I think he is dividing people that Nicky Winmar and Michael Long brought together.

:clapping :clapping :clapping

So true. The past dark history is a terrible fact of life that will never go away unfortunately. It can be handled in different ways though. Some embrace others and work for a united future together. Some are full of blame and prefer to dwell on the past and be confrontational.

 

[Rosy]

This is his real crime.

Aboriginal disadvantage and dispossession is longstanding and deep seated.

He drew attention to it.

He performed a pre-conceived, deliberately intimidating act of aggression towards the supporters. He also said he wouldn't do it to another Indigenous person on the opposition team. Not acceptable from anyone in my opinion. The fact it has been condoned and encouraged while other similar gestures have been penalised doesn't help things one bit.

 

[tigertim]

Sam Newman, Jason Akermanis, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones.

That's your squad. Good luck

Good god .. That's a putrid bunch isn't it
Imagine sitting down to diner and discussing anything worthwhile with that bunch of bigots ?

Isn'to calling them "putrid" and "bigots" vilification? See this is the bit I don't get about all this. Don't vilify these people over here but it's ok to vilify these people over there.

Surely don't vilify anyone is the way to go.

 

[Brodders17]

By definition anyone who differentiates on the basis of race is racist. Adam Goodes has been racist. The AFL have been racist. I agreed with Goodes' comments about Indigenous players being that bit more in tune with the game...not overall imo but liking the magic and instinct I sometimes see...so I am racist. Most on here seems to be differentiating due to race. I'd be surprised if there was anyone who wasn't a bit racist. Fact is races do have differences as well as similarities. Treating them differently because of them is more where the racism is a concern imo.

this is incorrect. it is no racist to point out difference. racism is pointing out the difference as a negative.
According to the webster dictionary:
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:


does anyone think no part of Goodes's treatment is driven by racism? noone booing is doing so cos of racism?

 

[tigertim]

http://youtu.be/sno9lUOvuNk

So is this sketch racist or funny ? I can't tell any more!

 

[bruntonave.]

You didn't answer my question.

You can only answer that for yourself.

Supporting our club in their support of Goodes is one thing we can do.

 

[bruntonave.]

He chooses to label people. It's confrontational and his point gets lost because people have their backs up.

Who, in all this, has a real reason to 'have their backs up'?

Indigenous australians or someone else?

And people call Goodes a sook.

 

[bruntonave.]

He performed a pre-conceived, deliberately intimidating act of aggression towards the supporters.

Really, these complaints about the dance are so lame.

 

[Rosy]

Really, these complaints about the dance are so lame.

Why are they lame? Do you think it achieved anything positive for our Indigenous population for one of them to intimidate people with a pretend spear? Why is it ok for some to do symbolic gestures to the crowd and not for others to? Why is it aimed at the opposition supporters rather than the opposition team? Why if it's a war dance wouldn't it apply to Indigenous players on the opposition team? As Adam said "it's war". Why wasn't it performed to the opposition team?

You've questioned others heaps. I'm interested to read your answers to the questions above.

 

[Chimptastic]

this is incorrect. it is no racist to point out difference. racism is pointing out the difference as a negative.
According to the webster dictionary:
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:


does anyone think no part of Goodes's treatment is driven by racism? noone booing is doing so cos of racism?

I honestly don't believe anybody is booing Adam because they believe their race is superior to his race. Do you?

 

[Total Tiger]

Who, in all this, has a real reason to 'have their backs up'?

Indigenous australians or someone else?

And people call Goodes a sook.

You've selectively quoted me and by doing so have missed my point. Not sure if that's intentional or not. Nicky Winmar made us stop and think. Michael Long works tirelessly on bringing us all together. The Long Walk is a path walked annually by both black and white Australians with equality its intention. This is a quote from their website: "All the work we do is focused on achieving equality between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians ". Adam Goodes is divisive and is undoing the great work done by Winmar and Long. All 3 are Indigenous. I greatly admire 2 of them. I not only don't admire one of them but as this week has gone on have decided that I actually quite dislike him (as much as you can someone you've never met). Does that make me only 1/3 racist?

 

[Rosy]

this is incorrect.......

Maybe by your definition. Not by the one I used. There are various definitions.

racist
ˈreɪsɪst/Submit
noun
1.
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights or goods among different racial groups.

Definitions of racism
The belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.
Offensive or aggressive behaviour to members of another race stemming from such a belief.

someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly:

Racism is a belief that one race is superior to the other or the practice of treating a person or group of people differently on the basis of their race.

discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

Pretending to throw a spear at opposition supporters while stating you wouldn't do it to an opposition player of your own race?

 

[IanG]

Adam Goodes is divisive and is undoing the great work done by Winmar and Long.

I don't see how anything you have cited him as doing is in fact the cause of division, but it is fact bringing latent issues to the surface that still exist as I have said before. He performed a war dance at the crowd, so what why should the crowd feel threatened? Other players and coaches have made threatening gestures to the crowds without much of an uproar or the crowds themselves actually feeling threatened.

BTW Nathan Buckley on SEN just comprehensively pwned Dermott Brereton on the issue in terms of statements Brereton has made.

 

[Rosy]

Who, in all this, has a real reason to 'have their backs up'?

Indigenous australians or someone else?

And people call Goodes a sook.

Who? Anyone who is singled out, blamed or intimidated by others. The past can't be changed and nobody around now is responsible for it. We can embrace and support each other for a far better future though.