Re: Adam Goodes

[Chelsea]

I'm sure we can. If tho booing only happened when he staged (11 free kicks all year, can't be that good a stager), or sniped, or dived, or chicken winged then there would be no issus because it's ditrected at his actions on the field.

the constant booing whenever he gets the ball means there is more to it then his on field actions. It's Jab Watson like when jab admitted to the drug taking. Jab was booed all day, suffered from it (teared up at the end I think), but was targeted for more than just jab, it was for all the sins of the EFC.

It's crossed over. People need to understand that and accept it. Whether they like it or not, it's crossed. Now that the situation is different you need to re-evalute whether some god given "right" you feel you have to boo is still having the same effect you want it to have or whether is being interreptted as something you don't want it to be.

Or if you don't care what others think and just like to boo, then do so but don't get upset if people point out that your booing now means something to others.

I think Baloo that just because he received only 11 free kicks doesn't mean he doesn't continually stage and dive and throw the arms about in despair.
It is the trying to be a pain in the bum on the field that has caused this booing, not the actual free kicks awarded.

 

[Chimptastic]

Not talking about that, I'm talking about how he says it makes him feel.

A number of people have said Adam's feelings should be taken as truth. They're wrong. His feelings should be respected, definitely - but his feelings are not the truth.

Here's a universal truth about human beings: their feelings are often irrational. Human beings often twist things in their head to make themselves feel better. Adam Goodes has twisted this into a racial thing because he refuses to accept he's disliked for more legitimate reasons. It's self-preservation at its finest.

If a women interviews poorly and doesn't get the job, and she then accuses you of being a sexist... Are her feelings the truth? The right thing to do in this situation is respect her feelings and calmly explain to her why she wasn't considered the best fit. Nobody in the AFL has had the guts to tell Adam that he simply isn't liked, and it's not because of the colour of his skin.

 

[Baloo]

I think Baloo that just because he received only 11 free kicks doesn't mean he doesn't continually stage and dive and throw the arms about in despair.
It is the trying to be a pain in the bum on the field that has caused this booing, not the actual free kicks awarded.

You need to read what I typed, not what you think I typed. That's been an issue all through this thread. I said he's not a good stager, not that he doesn't continually do it.

So why do people boo when he isn't staging ? All he needs to do is have the ball ? he's not the worst stager in the AFL by a mile but he gets a constant angry boo every time he has the ball ?

But it's time to drop out of this thread because all that's been said has been said. It's fairly clear where people stand and why. It's all an emotive subject which makes it hard for people to understand the other side.

 

[Chimptastic]

You need to read what I typed, not what you think I typed. That's been an issue all through this thread. I said he's not a good stager, not that he doesn't continually do it.

So why do people boo when he isn't staging ?

Have enjoyed reading your views on this subject.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly here, but staging doesn't always result in free kicks.

Against us, he threw his was back like he'd been shot (I like Rancey'a arm hit his chest). Didn't get a free kick for it off memory, but the crowd remembered it for the resr of the day.

 

[Chelsea]

have a look at the mortality, incarceration, employment rates of the indigenous population and then tell me if you think it's a narrow divide.

That has nothing to do with football or what Adam Goodes does on the football field.
I don't think Fiji has a great mortality rate and there are some racial issues between Indian-Fijians and the like and the native population but I do not see Nic Natanui booed because of it.
It is this type of discussion that makes the discussion about race which started when Goodes said the booing was racially motivated even though the vast majority of people who boo has said it is not, it is because we do not like you!
I do not understand why people cannot comprehend this.
Booing is simply a way for fans to show disapproval. There is not much else one can do when seated in a stadium. Swear with kids around? Jump the fence and land one on his chin?
Maybe options in the future.
I think it would be less painful than some of the debating and listening to some of the outlandish comments and opinions on TV.
Adam Goodes ran at opposition fans for the first time in his career with a war dance.
If he thought that was going to endear him to the footballing populous then that was a big error in judgement.
And if he cannot handle the responsibility of such an action then it is time for him to retire and enjoy his life.
He's been a champion. Time to hang up the boots before things go further down the drain but I fear it will be too late.
I fear violence in the stands in the next couple of weeks if alcohol and stubborness prevail.
That will be Adam's legacy

 

[AngryAnt]

You're basing this on what exactly?

Your inability to explain how the state oppresses you.

Which indigenous Australians are you talking about?

Which indigenous Australians do you think I'm talking about? I'll give you a clue - read this thread to work it out.

Ironically another non-sequitur.

If you ignore history and reality, perhaps.

 

[AngryAnt]

I am a rebel.

I'm the Dalai Lama

 

[Rosy]

Just note Sam Newman once did an impersonation in blackface .....

I have no respect for Sam Newman's antics same as I have none for Adam Goodes' either. I can understand both copping flak for their behavior. They certainly handle the heat differently though. What was specifically wrong with Sam pretending to be Winmar? Nicky said he was black and proud of it. Your comment sounds to me it's something to be ashamed of.

 

[IanG]

A number of people have said Adam's feelings should be taken as truth. They're wrong. His feelings should be respected, definitely - but his feelings are not the truth.

So the AFL racial villification policy which is based in part on a similar principle is wrong then? A policy which has been lauded by most.

 

[IanG]

That has nothing to do with football or what Adam Goodes does on the football field.

You're shifting the goalposts, Baloo's reply had everything to do with what you specifically wrote.

 

[Chelsea]

I have no respect for Sam Newman's antics same as I have none for Adam Goodes' either. I can understand both copping flak for their behavior. They certainly handle the heat differently though. What was specifically wrong with Sam pretending to be Winmar? Nicky said he was black and proud of it. Your comment sounds to me it's something to be ashamed of.

I have always asked that question as well.
I think if you are trying to impersonate somebody and the person you are impersonating has dark skin and you have white skin, then to give an accurate portrayal then you will have to paint your face a dark colour.
I don't think Sam Newman in this instant was trying to defame the indigenous race. He was simply trying to look like Nicky Winmar.
Similar to this Adam Goodes issue, it was the PC brigade making a mountain out of a molehill.
I feel sorry for people who look at these issues in such a complex manner when the majority of the time, there is an innocent reason behind it.
Why can't people relax, take a chill pill, and have a laugh.

 

[Chimptastic]

So the AFL racial villification policy which is based in part on a similar principle is wrong then? A policy which has been lauded by most.

Wrong premise. The vilification policy is related to racial slurs, like 'ape', which is supposed to prevent players from saying "well I didn't think it was racist so it's not!"... the vilification policy has never meant if an Indigenous player interprets boos as racism, then it's racism.

 

[Chelsea]

You're shifting the goalposts, Baloo's reply had everything to do with what you specifically wrote.

I do not understand what you mean? ???
I do not see what a race with problems regarding mortality have to do with Adam Goodes being booed because he plays for free kicks and incites opposition fans with a war dance aimed at them?
I think some people may be grasping at straws and looking too deep into a simple issue.

 

[Baloo]

I think some people may be grasping at straws and looking too deep into a simple issue.

Finally we agree. The issue here is ignorance. Plain and simple.

 

[year of the tiger]

Well this thread has progressed since last night - and I have just read the comments.

I am not out to change those who have a different view to me on here, and I am certainly not saying if you have a different view then you must be racist, but I still believe that in the Goodes case, the booing DOES represent a racist overtone that I haven't seen in sport in Australia for a long time:

why - its a bit hard to explain

1) people used to boo Goodes occasionally when he did some stupid stuff on the ground (pretty common with other players to) and a bit to do with tall poppy syndrome, but since he came out and used his Australia of the Year speech to raise publically what he thought were still some strong racial issues that still exist in Australian society today, then a lot of people took offence at this. We saw a lot of the media, people like Bolt, I think Jones and plenty of others went really hard at him and attacked Goodes the person rather than tackle the issue that he was raising. Since that point, the "mob" mentality took over and booing of Goodes became ingrained in AFL crowds. (to answer the question that Rosy posed last night)

2) that is why booing Goodes is different to Judd or Watson for example - it is because he raised issues of oppression, inequality, disadvantage etc - all issues associated about his race and he has clearly put the debate of race back into the public arena - I applaud him for that, as I do Rosie Batty for putting domestic violence into the public arena. Yet as a messenger, he is now being vilified, which started in the broad media and has moved into sport (where he operates).

3) People also attack Goodes for singling out a young girl (was she 12 or 14) for calling him an ape. I am glad he did and I don't care of her age. She was old enough to know that what she said was racist and old enough to take responsibility for her actions or words. His press conference afterwards is often overlooked, and he expressed no anger at her, but again he was raising serious issues that still exist in our society.

4) so does booing Goodes mean you are racist - to me not necessarily, but by booing Goodes now (for whatever reason), you will be adding your voice (or boo) to a situation that has clearly moved beyond - a slightly unpopular person - to a comment about race relations in Australia, whether you like it or not. Your boos are seen as bullying a person who raised issues of race inequality and the boos are now affecting other aboriginal players - how do we know this - because these players have come out and told us.

5) you still have a right to boo - but it is very naive to think that your voice will be seen differently to those who boo a person who raised serious race related issues. In my view, continued booing against Goodes will now be seen and carry a clear message about race - that is - we will tolerate minority or disadvantage groups as long as they don't rock the boat and start to raise uncomfortable truths about their situations.

5) So I therefore applaud the tigers for their stand tonight.

 

[tigersnake]

What was specifically wrong with Sam pretending to be Winmar?

Google 'why is blackface offensive?' and you'll get plenty of info

 

[uhuh uhuh]

Shane Edwards would earn more money in a year than I do in 5 years.
Nathan Drummond has an opportunity to play for a club I could only ever dream of playing for.
Adam Goodes was Australian of the Year. Not black Australian of the year. Australian of the Year. Representing all of us.
I think the gap is a lot narrower than the doomsdayers are leading you to believe.

Just waiting on Chelsea, (not Clinton) to get stuck into Rose Batty for only representing victims of domestic violence..

 

[Rosy]

Finally we agree. The issue here is ignorance. Plain and simple.

It's not plain and simple imo.

In my mind the AFL have encouraged racism and segregation. They've handled this situation poorly by having rules for some and different rules for others. If other players have been fined and/or disclipined for acts symbolising aggression towards the crowd it should also apply to indigenous Australians, and vice versa if the situation applies. They're a massive divide in not only condoning, but also encouraging, Aboriginals to pretend to spear the crowd in an intimidating cry of war. It's no different from symbolic shotguns or rude gesture.

You said (paraphrasing) it was understandable ferals booed Matty White for being a mercenary chasing the money. Would it be as easily understood if he was an Aboriginal player being booed for a similar thing?

It's not that simple when different rules apply to different races. It's disgraceful anyone differentiates due to skin colour. The AFL, Adam Goodes and those agreeing with it included.

 

[Rosy]

Google 'why is blackface offensive?' and you'll get plenty of info

Sam was pretending to be a specific person. Someone who was black and proud of it. Was that really a racist and offensive sterotypical action?

If he pretended to be Bronwyn Bishop and wore a beehive hairdo or pretended to be Joan Kirner and wore a polka dot dress would it be sexist?

I can't stand Sam Newman and his attention seeking at the expense of others. Anyway Ian raised it and I'm interested to know what he thought was offensive about it in the context of this discussion.

I hope Indigenous Australians can be and are proud, as Nicky Winmar showed the world, instead of dwelling on how people were treated centuries ago in America. I don't think Sam was being racist. He was being his idiotic self.

 

[Rosy]

Just waiting on Chelsea, (not Clinton) to get stuck into Rose Batty for only representing victims of domestic violence..

I can't follow the logic behind that comment. Can you clarify a bit please uhuh uhuh?