Re: Adam Goodes

[mld]

Not really.

I'm not so jaded yet.

 

[IanG]

I think the majority of people agree with them from what I have read and seen.

You've done a survey then.....

Two steps back in reconciliation and the game and a champion's legacy ruined all because of his actions and the overhyped and rude insinuations towards the majority of the footballing loving public.
I hope the exercise was worthwhile

Actually what its done is bring the issues to the surface that were already there, Australians just tend to be quite passive aggressive. I've seen similar comments from Americans comparing US attitudes towards race and Australian attitudes.

 

[Chelsea]

To quote what Sintiger said:
"To me it is quite simple now.

When someone says don't do something it makes me feel like ... then to me I should stop it. When I rib someone about their red hair , or being short, or the mole on their nose and I am making fun in a light hearted way and they don't like it then it stops being about me and what I think and it becomes about them."

If you ignore this and continue booing then you are lacking in empathy.

I am a rebel.
If someone says I cannot do something then I see it as a challenge.
Especially something that is has been allowed for 100 years and will continue once Adam Goodes leaves the game.
But the precedent has been set and the PC brigade will win.
The atmosphere at games will die as fans say and do nothing for fear of being accused of something they aren't.
Second guessing what they do because the player they are about to boo might be indigenous or gay or muslim or have red hair.
Will that player get angry? will he cry? am I driving this player from the game?
A positive is that the quietness at games can be filled with more loud commercials and gambling advertisements.
We can listen to them during games instead of at the end of each quarter.
I think Adam is feeling that bad about things then he needs to retire and go and enjoy the rest of his life in a place that has no racism.

 

[Chimptastic]

It is amazing how deeply compassionate and caring the anti-booers are...

...until they're required to consider the feelings of people who disagree with their opinion.

 

[Chelsea]

You've done a survey then.....

Actually what its done is bring the issues to the surface that were already there, Australians just tend to be quite passive aggressive. I've seen similar comments from Americans comparing US attitudes towards race and Australian attitudes.

I have not done a survey but have read the comments on both the Herald Sun and The Age as well as hundreds of comments on social media.
I have no individually counted the for and againsts but after reading a lot of opinions, I have a sense of the majority swaying against this position of the crowd are racists.
The reasons of why Goodes has been booed varies though. He is a really polarising figure when he should be a figure bringing people together.
An issue has been brought to the surface but I am not so sure it is the issue you think it is or hope it is.

 

[Chimptastic]

And here is the 'utilitarianism suffering equation':

(Addition) Hurt 50 people by carelessly branding them one of the worst things you can label someone (racist) to support (subtract) the media-driven irrationally-derived feelings of 1 person. Multiply by the moral superiority it rewards the accuser in the process. It's an equation that probably causes more suffering than it reduces.

This supports the view that Adam has been more divisive than uniting. This could be a wonderful thing to divide in the short-term for the greater good in the long term. But I don't see any evidence for the racial assumptions this would require to unfold as foreseen by the anti-booers.

 

[Chelsea]

It is amazing how deeply compassionate and caring the anti-booers are...

...until they're required to consider the feelings of people who disagree with their opinion.

That is funny. I wish I had thought of that one
Yes. There seems to be some angry posters at times here. Maybe they will throw eggs at me when I boo Adam next?
Yet they seem to denounce violence and racism.
It is a funny world we live in Chimptastic!

 

[IanG]

I am a rebel.
If someone says I cannot do something then I see it as a challenge.

No matter the hurt you cause?

 

[IanG]

It is amazing how deeply compassionate and caring the anti-booers are...

...until they're required to consider the feelings of people who disagree with their opinion.

You reckon anti Goodes posters on are are emotionally scarred from people disagreeing with them? Wow! There's been no abuse just debate which gets somewhat heated at times.

 

[Chimptastic]

You've done a survey then.....

I saw somewhere that the Herald Sun survey found 80% disagreed it's racist.

 

[Chelsea]

No matter the hurt you cause?

I think booing in this instance is part of the game. It is part of being a professional footballer.
If Adam is hurt by this then I do feel sorry for him, as it just means that he hasn't got them mental strength to block this out any longer.
He then needs to retire and enjoy his life. He's had a good run and this was his last year anyway.
He has been a champion of the game and hopefully will be remembered by that however the longer this goes on and the more hysteria is caused by people who want to cast dispersions onto the broader footballing public, then I am afraid he is going to be remembered for the wrong reasons.
It was mentioned that is has gone on long enough and it probably has, but it will be up to each individual to stop when they are ready to stop or find a new villain to boo or disapprove of.
The AFL or anyone else for that matter should not be demanding people to stop and doing this by accusing everyone of being racist.
That is worse than the booing, IMHO.

 

[Chimptastic]

You reckon anti Goodes posters on are are emotionally scarred from people disagreeing with them? Wow! There's been no abuse just debate which gets somewhat heated at times.

See.

You completely lack compassion towards the 80% who feel it's not racist and are thus falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

You can brush it off as 'disagreing with your opinion' all you want, but when the opinion is 'you're a racist' it's a lot more serious than you give credit.

 

[waiting]

This has gone out of control.

I don't boo players. I do get upset with umpires though!

If supporters were for argument sake were booing Judd with some of the stuff he did( chicken wing/ elbow smashing into Pavs face and not getting suspended , winning his 2nd Brownlow, Vissy deal, etc so what we call that!

We /fans boo Goodes and we are ALL racists.! Take offence and so should the Hawks supporters who are being labelled "racists". When Buddy left some booed him, were they racists? Nothing was made of that! Hawks gave I think 3 Indigenous players in their side for goodness sakes.

Look part of me of has some sympathy / understanding as I went through racism most of my teenage life. It was bloody tough and racism I believe was worse then it is now. A lot of my teenage years I went through a very difficult time, so Goodes would be going through a form of this now, hence his time off.

This has escalated this year more so than last. We ask why? He should as why too?

A poll was conducted yesterday by one if the papers and 80% said they don't boo because of his race/colour I think it mentioned. The problem here is and I've slowly come around is it doesn't matter what WE think or believe it's how Goodes feels.

The whole thing could have been handled better by him firstly and others.

Yes there still would be a racist element in all this.but sometimes most if us are like little kids. You tell them don't do this but you turn your back and they are at it again.

As I mentioned on previous threads and occasions is I once was a Goides admire circa 2013 but since then I have changed my views and I don't like /admire him as I once did. Does this make me a racist?

This has the ability to cause more issues if we supporters question other supporters who boo Goodes from this day forth.

Hope I have made sense.

Very delicate issue at hand.

 

[tigersnake]

See.

You completely lack compassion towards the 80% who feel it's not racist and are thus falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

You can brush it off as 'disagreing with your opinion' all you want, but when the opinion is 'you're a racist' it's a lot more serious than you give credit.

A herald sun poll says 80% so you really think its 80%? Going by research, media and this thread, I'd bet money its 50-50. It might be 45-55 either way, but its thereabouts. And people didn't suddenly grow their views from nowhere, Goodes has exposed a very real division in our society, he hasn't caused it. It implies 'everything was fine until that pesky black footy player showed up'. Its ridiculous. As I've said earlier, bringing things out in the open is a good thing for the country, if not for Goodes himself.

Racism is about lack of understanding. As soon as people understand, the racism tends to disappear. But that is easier said than done. understanding is often not easy, and often people, for various reasons, don't want to understand.

 

[Baloo]

What most are saying now is if you join in the constant booing of Goodes then you are providing cover, if not encouraging those who boo with racist intent.

I had no issues with the booing he copped early for his staging and pseudo tough guy behaviour. But now it's become a racial issue so I don't want to be associated in anyway with those that for for racial issues. So I don't condone booing the constant booing of Goodes.

It's become bigger than Goodes. How or why is a different debate, but the situation has changed and I reckon people should adapt to the changing situation and re-evaluate whether the constant booing of Goodes is sending the message they want.

 

[Tigertool]

Very touchy subject. I have never/will ever boo a player or even an umpire. However I'm on the side that disagree it's racist booing. People don't like him because of he's a bit of an idiot. I think the race card is being played purely to get people to stop.

Stuart Broad is booed when England play out here but he doesn't get booed because he's British.

 

[Chimptastic]

A herald sun poll says 80% so you really think its 80%? Going by research, media and this thread, I'd bet money its 50-50. It might be 45-55 either way, but its thereabouts.

That poll included 60,000 people, meaning 48,000 agreed it's not racist, and only 12,000 think it is.

It implies 'everything was fine until that pesky black footy player showed up'. Its ridiculous.

Good job at making a false, sweeping generalising about the Australian public with no critical justification. Why don't we boo Michael Long for doing essentially the same thing, but in a better, more uniting manner?

Racism is about lack of understanding. As soon as people understand, the racism tends to disappear. But that is easier said than done. understanding is often not easy, and often people, for various reasons, don't want to understand.

You are spot on! This is an issue horribly misunderstood by the likes of the AFL media and those patronising the public. I suggest those people heed your advice.

 

[IanG]

See.

You completely lack compassion towards the 80% who feel it's not racist and are thus falsely accused of such a terrible thing.

You can brush it off as 'disagreing with your opinion' all you want, but when the opinion is 'you're a racist' it's a lot more serious than you give credit.

Where have I called anyone a racist? Its been said multiple times that not all the booing is being done for racist reasons.

 

[IanG]

I think booing in this instance is part of the game. It is part of being a professional footballer.

And I think you underestimate the affect this concerted 'campaign' has. You ignore what Goodes and others have said about it but no-one else can speak to how it feels.

 

[tigersnake]

That poll included 60,000 people, meaning 48,000 agreed it's not racist, and only 12,000 think it is.

So you think that its 80% because of a herald sun poll? If thats the case, we don't have much of a basis for discussion.