Re: Adam Goodes

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

For non-indigenous australians this is about taking responsibility.

That's a personal choice.

It's up to you.

This is getting to the heart of it. Most people have a live and let live attitude toward Aboriginals; only genuine racists want to keep them down. But Goodesy and others say that's not enough, you need to feel guilt or shame.

As the Smithers article posted above concludes, *smile*in' get on with it!

 

[bruntonave.]

Most people who do boo Goodes agree with you as most of us are not racist and merely boo to show our disapproval at his actions on the field.

This is garbage.

So those of us who have got this so wrong are missing who the real victims are in all this ... all the people who have their feelings hurt because they're concerned that someone might characterise something that they might not endorse or do as racist.

 

[Rosy]

What do you mean by 'racism card'?

Our club has made it clear that Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond are personally affected by this.

I hadn't heard that brunton. Can you provide a link or more info please? How and why has it affected them?

 

[bruntonave.]

Quote from: bruntonave. on Today at 08:15:37 AM
For non-indigenous australians this is about taking responsibility.

That's a personal choice.

It's up to you.

This is getting to the heart of it. Most people have a live and let live attitude toward Aboriginals; only genuine racists want to keep them down. But Goodesy and others say that's not enough, you need to feel guilt or shame.

Close.

But you don't NEED to feel anything.

You've already said that you're indifferent to this, which is refreshingly candid compared to most.

If you can feel pride in australia's history, then you can feel shame as well.

But the choice is yours.

'Live and let live' glosses over the massive dispossession and injustice that is at the heart of this.

Indigenous australians have hugely disproportionate rates of morbidity, mortality and incarceration and the lowest rates of education and employment.

The reasons for this are complex and historical. We can choose to confront this.

 

[bruntonave.]

I hadn't heard that brunton. Can you provide a link or more info please? How and why has it affected them?

Damian Hardwick said on Monday that when people boo Adam Goodes, Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond feel that they are being booed as well.

 

[Rosy]

I wonder how Adam would cope if he goes on to a career in politics. If he can't cop the flak from using his footy career as a political pulpit he could struggle bigtime with real life political blow torch.

 

[Rosy]

Damian Hardwick said on Monday that when people boo Adam Goodes, Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond feel that they are being booed as well.

I wonder if he asked them that or if it's his opinion. Fact is they aren't being booed. 70 or so Aboriginal players aren't being booed. Adam Goodes the person is being booed due to his own behaviour and actions. He isn't being booed because he's Indigenous. He's being booed and is indigenous. I wonder if Jobe Watson could be booed to the extent he's copped if he happened to be aboriginal.

boo1
buː/Submit
exclamation
1.
said suddenly to surprise someone who is unaware of one's presence.
"‘Boo!’ she cried, jumping up to frighten him"
2.
said to show disapproval or contempt.
"‘There's only one bar.’ ‘Boo!’"
noun
1.
an utterance of ‘boo’ to show disapproval of a speaker or performer.
"the audience greeted this comment with boos and hisses"
verb
1.
say ‘boo’ to show disapproval of a speaker or performer.
"they booed and hissed when he stepped on stage"

Do people seriously think people disapprove of him being Aboriginal rather than of his behaviour regardless of his colour? I have not seen one iota of evidence of that. There have been a couple of individual examples of racist taunts but nothing I'm aware to show the booing is because he's aboriginal.

 

[Chelsea]

What do you mean by 'racism card'?

Our club has made it clear that Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond are personally affected by this.

Hi BruntonAve
Is Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond related to Adam Goodes?
They do not play for the same club and as far as I know Edwards and Drummond have not been booed by fans.
I do not see how they could be personally affected by this.
It would be the same as saying Richo was personally affected because Aker got booed.
The club I love is towing the party line like a good cog in the AFL machine.

 

[Giardiasis]

Not to me.

What, exactly, do you dissent from?

Read a previous post where I already answered this question from you.

 

[Chelsea]

dont forget Alan Jones and Aker.
fine company to be in.

Hi Brodders.
Yes. They are another two who have read the situation more accurately than many of the experts and football journos who seem to want to pander to a minority.
It is good to see some journos and ex-players understand the football culture and why people boo.
We have many indigenous players and once they put on their team's jumper then they are simply a football player.
Any race, religion, or sexual preference is left and from the many games I have been to, the crowd have been fantastic.
But the crowd has always booed their villains and people have their own personal opinions as to who the villains are.
I also boo Balantyne as I think he is a sniper.
I used to boo Lloyd because it took forever for him to have a shot at goal.
I used to boo Paul Salmon as he always took forever as well.
And also Karl Langdon from the Eagles.
A mate boos Sam Mitchell and would like to see a Tigers player plant one on his chin tonight. I want Sam to have a good game for my SuperCoach and will secretly cheer inside with every effective disposal he has.
Of course, I hope the mighty Tigers prevail.
And I will still boo any Hawks player who might have a shot at goal in the last quarter in a close game like I did to David Mundy last week.
Hopefully my booing pays off this week.

 

[Baloo]

Hi BruntonAve
Is Shane Edwards and Nathan Drummond related to Adam Goodes?
They do not play for the same club and as far as I know Edwards and Drummond have not been booed by fans.
I do not see how they could be personally affected by this.
It would be the same as saying Richo was personally affected because Aker got booed.
The club I love is towing the party line like a good cog in the AFL machine.

You refuse to see it because you refuse to accept this is an issue now bigger than Goodes. We're not wearing our Deamtime jumper because of Goodes, wer're wearing it because the whole issue has become one of racism.

It's really not that hard to understand. Whether you like the fact it's become about racism is a different debate, but the fact remains it's become a racism issue, no matter how it got there.

 

[mld]

This has been an eye-opening thread.

 

[AngryAnt]

Life's tough for Adam Goodes at the top, no?

I've had about as much direct experience as AG has,

I doubt that very much.

but my Opa knows a thing or two about it. He and his family were kicked off their farm by Communist partisans because they refused to cave into their demands for tribute. That's how they ended up in Aus.

Yep - they came here to give their children and grandchildren a better life and good on them. The indigenous Australians didn't have that as an option.

In any case, the point you were trying make was a complete non sequitur.

A white man complaining that Adam Goodes is using the coercive power of the state to oppress him is probably closer to a non-sequitur IMO, but hey, what do I know.

 

[Chelsea]

I wonder if he asked them that or if it's his opinion. Fact is they aren't being booed. 70 or so Aboriginal players aren't being booed. Adam Goodes the person is being booed due to his own behaviour and actions. He isn't being booed because he's Indigenous. He's being booed and is indigenous. I wonder if Jobe Watson could be booed to the extent he's copped if he happened to be aboriginal.

boo1
buː/Submit
exclamation
1.
said suddenly to surprise someone who is unaware of one's presence.
"‘Boo!’ she cried, jumping up to frighten him"
2.
said to show disapproval or contempt.
"‘There's only one bar.’ ‘Boo!’"
noun
1.
an utterance of ‘boo’ to show disapproval of a speaker or performer.
"the audience greeted this comment with boos and hisses"
verb
1.
say ‘boo’ to show disapproval of a speaker or performer.
"they booed and hissed when he stepped on stage"

Do people seriously think people disapprove of him being Aboriginal rather than of his behaviour regardless of his colour? I have not seen one iota of evidence of that. There have been a couple of individual examples of racist taunts but nothing I'm aware to show the booing is because he's aboriginal.

Hi Rosy.
I think you speak too much sense.
Underneath I think some people who are arguing really do believe that he is not being booed because the majority of the crowd are racist.
They cannot be so silly and prejudicial and rude.
I think these people just want to see Adam play and not get booed and the only way for this to happen is to try and embarrass everyone into not booing by labelling them racists.
It is sad to stoop to this level and quite demeaning to the majority of football fans like me who like to go to the game and cheer and boo when I want to who I want.
So please Rosy, do not get angry at these people. They are trying to be good people but I think are a little misaligned with their approach.

 

[IanG]

dont forget Alan Jones and Aker.
fine company to be in.

Just note Sam Newman once did an impersonation in blackface and referred to a malaysian man as a monkey. Hardly the type to listen to on these matters.

 

[Baloo]

This has been an eye-opening thread.

Not really.

 

[IanG]

Hi Brodders.
Yes. They are another two who have read the situation more accurately than many of the experts and football journos who seem to want to pander to a minority.

No they merely agree with you thats all.

 

[Chelsea]

You refuse to see it because you refuse to accept this is an issue now bigger than Goodes. We're not wearing our Deamtime jumper because of Goodes, wer're wearing it because the whole issue has become one of racism.

It's really not that hard to understand. Whether you like the fact it's become about racism is a different debate, but the fact remains it's become a racism issue, no matter how it got there.

Hi again Baloo.
Who made it bigger than Goodes?
I only boo players who I do not like and Goodes has happened to be one of them recently.
To me, it has nothing to do with racism no matter how many people telling me it is.
I really wonder who the racists are in this predicament :'(
I do not agree with the Tigers wearing the jumper for Goodes.
If all clubs wore a jumper for an Anti-Racism round then I would be happy for that to happen.
All players are the same once out on the field in my mind anyways. I cannot talk for others.

 

[IanG]

Do not say sorry.
Most people who do boo Goodes agree with you as most of us are not racist and merely boo to show our disapproval at his actions on the field.

To quote what Sintiger said:
"To me it is quite simple now.

When someone says don't do something it makes me feel like ... then to me I should stop it. When I rib someone about their red hair , or being short, or the mole on their nose and I am making fun in a light hearted way and they don't like it then it stops being about me and what I think and it becomes about them."

If you ignore this and continue booing then you are lacking in empathy.

 

[Chelsea]

No they merely agree with you thats all.

I think the majority of people agree with them from what I have read and seen.
But the booing will stop for Adam's next game so that should keep the more vocal commentators happy at least.
Two steps back in reconciliation and the game and a champion's legacy ruined all because of his actions and the overhyped and rude insinuations towards the majority of the footballing loving public.
I hope the exercise was worthwhile