Re: Adam Goodes

[KnightersRevenge]

Good avoidance of my question that was in response to you singling me out. At least you didn't play the living overseas card and didn't notice it this time. :hihi

Huh? Overseas what? Yes I live in a different timezone. Sometimes my posts can be disjointed as a result. Sometimes they get deleted without explanation, I can't really do much about that. You claimed I was asking you to think for others. Nope I asked specifically what your attempts to deal with racism would be seeing as you have stated that you would behave differently than Goodes does and that confrontation is not the way.

This is the Goodes thread and it's his particular behaviour, actions, attitude and playing style that is in question. It's not a general thread about endemic racism. He is one person putting himself in the spot light and I am commenting about his situation.

You may want to focus solely on Goodes but this thread is about the whole of the issues surrounding Goodes not just the person or the footballer as anyone reading it can see. You are as adept at avoiding the sticky issues here by laser focussing on Goodes alone. That is fine but don't try to pretend the issues are not relevant to this discussion. You don't want to discuss them that's fine.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

It's not very high on my priority list, sorry. I'm aware of it but I'm not passionate about it.

The Liberals have committed $220M towards Aboriginal education in 2015. Tick.

That's fine, you asked what you could do. The Libs have cut plenty too.

 

[Rosy]

If Adam Goodes feels you're being racist towards him when you boo him and then you keep doing it despite his objections then theres no doubt it's racist. Whatever people's reasons for it are/were t's time to stop unless you actually are a racist.

So if I think someone's behaviour towards me on here is sexist and they continue after my objections it means there's no doubt they are sexist? Right. What about uninformed assumptions, persecution complexes, misunderstandings, reactions to certain actions etc.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Re: Re: Round 17 - other games

There is nothing imaginary about it.

If Goodes was not indigenous and had not been an outspoken australian-of-the-year, this would not be happening.

So everyone's booing Cyril or Eddie or Buddy, or any of the other seventy or eighty indigenous players that runs out each week? Or any of the other ethnic or minority races / cultures that front up each game?

There's certainly a fair bunch in the crowd who are simply stupid enough to carry on like pork chops for no more valid reason than the fact that they can. From my point of view, I wouldn't bother wasting energy during this period booing Goodes n copping the racist stereotype but, the blokes done a few things in recent years that for me put him in the self centered prat category n now he n a few mates in the media n H.Q. want to get all pretentiously sensitive n anti racist about it. Stirring up way more *smile* than it's worth.

Rarely if ever booed at players from over fifty years watching all levels of footy ( usually prefer to reserve my energy for the maggots ;D ). Essendrugs have copped it a couple of times n deservedly, there's been a couple of dirty mongrel thugs have copped a spray over the years n one or two most hated F wits.
Far as I'm concerned Goodes has been a champion player over his career n gets cut a little slack but I reckon he's managed to tip a bit of the *smile* bucket onto his own head over the last few seasons n I'm not surprised there's a few who've hopped into him n the sheep have simply followed, so now we have a circus.

 

[Tigers of Old]

So if I think someone's behaviour towards me on here is sexist and they continue after my objections it means there's no doubt they are sexist?

Yes.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

That's fine, you asked what you could do. The Libs have cut plenty too.

No doubt, it's what governments do.

I'd take notice of and support an organised campaign to improve the chances of Aboriginal people to build a better life, but "Invasion Day" rallies leave me cold.

 

[Rosy]

Yes.

We have a few definitely sexist blokes on here then.

 

[Rosy]

Huh? Overseas what? Yes I live in a different timezone. Sometimes my posts can be disjointed as a result. Sometimes they get deleted without explanation, I can't really do much about that. ......

At least twice before you've said you didn't notice my question because you live in a different time zone. I asked you a question tonight in response to you quoting my post. It's not deleted. I even linked back to it in case you missed it. I gather you're choosing not to answer it. Your choice.

.......That is fine but don't try to pretend the issues are not relevant to this discussion. You don't want to discuss them that's fine.

Haha at suggesting I don't want to discuss them when it's you avoiding my question about them.

I repeat......

On "his own actions" I support whole heartedly his passion for his culture and for making Aussies look full frontal at the true history of our great country.

Fair enough. I don't think the football field is the place to do it myself. What exactly is the "true history" he's making us look at? He hasn't altered my opinions in the slightest way. Some of what he says doesn't quite fit right with me. Happy to be enlightened though.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

No doubt, it's what governments do.

I'd take notice of and support an organised campaign to improve the chances of Aboriginal people to build a better life, but "Invasion Day" rallies leave me cold.

I get it. But if you were one of the oppressed minority (it's a lot better now granted but their ancestors were hunted down and killed) I reckon a celebration of the beginning of the decimation of your culture would leave you worse than cold, it'd boil your blood. I'd support a move to a different day and a different type of celebration/recognition.

 

[Baloo]

We have a few definitely sexist blokes on here then.

No doubt. And a few racists too. Might be a couple of misandrists too. Who knows what people are like AFK.

While I defended the Boos early, it's obvious that it has now become a racial issue. To continue booing when you know it's received as being racist is being deliberately racist. Pretty clear cut now.

 

[Rosy]

No doubt there is some element of that but also no doubt Adam has also brought it on himself too. It's a pack mentality. Follow the mob. The bigger the fuss the more the reaction.

Are people saying it's ok to boo any player or umpire other than Adam Goodes? Should booing be banned completely? I don't like booing. I don't think it can be banned.

Do people find it acceptable for players to pretend to aggressively thrust spears at the supporters? Would it be acceptable to do a similar thing to those who've done it? I say a definite no to both.

Expectations should be the same for everyone.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Midsy]

No doubt. And a few racists too. Might be a couple of misandrists too. Who knows what people are like A.

While I defended the Boos early, it's obvious that it has now become a racial issue. To continue booing when you know it's received as being racist is being deliberately racist. Pretty clear cut now.

I disagree completely. Start telling people not to do it, and they will. It's pantomime. It's collective naughtiness. It started cos he was a flog, and he reacted. Call it teasing, call it bullying, but I don't agree it's racist.

 

[Baloo]

I disagree completely. Start telling people not to do it, and they will. It's pantomime. It's collective naughtiness. It started cos he was a flog, and he reacted. Call it teasing, call it bullying, but I don't agree it's racist.

Disagree all you want but that doesn't change the facts as they are now.

and you've made some assumptions there which while they might reflect your understanding of what transpired, it's certainly not everyone's interpretation.

 

[Midsy]

Disagree all you want but that doesn't change the facts as they are now.

and you've made some assumptions there which while they might reflect your understanding of what transpired, it's certainly not everyone's interpretation.

And that's fundamentally where the issue lies - people's interpretations of events. And what individuals consider racist. There will never be black and white racism, because it is subjective, and highly personal.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

At least twice before you've said you didn't notice my question because you live in a different time zone. I asked you a question tonight in response to you quoting my post. It's not deleted. I even linked back to it in case you missed it. I gather you're choosing not to answer it. Your choice.


Haha at suggesting I don't want to discuss them when it's you avoiding my question about them.

Pretty petty Rosy. I do live in an awkward timezone so I don't always go back and read through old posts to see if anyone responded. I don't consider it obligatory that I respond to all posts. I am only here today because I am on a late starting shift. And I have had posts deleted on this subject but you would know more than me about that because no-one has told me why.

I repeat......


Fair enough. I don't think the football field is the place to do it myself. What exactly is the "true history" he's making us look at? He hasn't altered my opinions in the slightest way. Some of what he says doesn't quite fit right with me. Happy to be enlightened though.

Sure Rosy lets all answer each others every question. You have chosen to avoid answering some of mine. You have left out the end of your question which identified it as rhetorical. You want to focus on Goodes and think racism is a sideline but you think I should answer your question about Australian History? Hypocritical much?

There is a vast amount of suppressed Australlian history in relation to the salughter of Indigenous as well just a rose coloured glasses history taught in schools. At least there was when I was in school.

 

[Baloo]

And that's fundamentally where the issue lies - people's interpretations of events. And what individuals consider racist. There will never be black and white racism, because it is subjective, and highly personal.

Correct, so if the recipient feels it's racist then it's racist to continue.

 

[Rosy]

.........
Sure Rosy lets all answer each others every question. You have chosen to avoid answering some of mine. You have left out the end of your question which identified it as rhetorical. ....

Good one. There you go again. The rhetorical comment wasn't at the end of that question. I didn't leave it out at all. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story. :rofl

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I get it. But if you were one of the oppressed minority (it's a lot better now granted but their ancestors were hunted down and killed) I reckon a celebration of the beginning of the decimation of your culture would leave you worse than cold, it'd boil your blood. I'd support a move to a different day and a different type of celebration/recognition.

Massacres went both ways, e.g. the survivors of the Maria shipwreck. Mostly the white man's way, granted. But it would've been interesting if they hadn't turned up with guns.

Fair enough, I've never really supported that argument but when you put it that way it makes sense. Happy to make the national day more inclusive if it'll have a positive effect. But not happy for it to be hijacked.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

And that's fundamentally where the issue lies - people's interpretations of events. And what individuals consider racist. There will never be black and white racism, because it is subjective, and highly personal.

At the start you could argue this, that time has passed. You are now aware, not ambigously, it is now a simple fact, that some of those booing are doing it for pig-headed racist reasons. So NOW the ambiguity is gone. Now it IS black and white. If you join in now you are part of the herd. And you know that the result is one of oestentatious bigotry.

Remember when you were a kid and your dad said "one more time!". This is that moment. Do it once more and you belong with the racists. It is now your choice.

 

[Midsy]

Correct, so if the recipient feels it's racist then it's racist to continue.

I disagree on that premise as well. If I call him a prick over, and over, and over, and he keeps telling me I'm being racist, am I? No, he's just a prick. It has nothing to do with his colour, or race, or religion, or anything else.

It may just be that he's a crap bloke.