After re-reading some of Goodes' remarks in a fuller context I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's just a bit awkward in the way he makes a point. Clean slate, no boos.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Re: Adam Goodes
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
YinnarTiger said:
Yep do as I say not as I do. After all that girl went through the previous day Adam still chose to single her out as the face of racism. He could have said the above without labeling her in such a way. Regardless of how bad her actions were and how she needed to have the connotations explained to her I still think she was treated in a very ordinary way. My opinion only.
Whether we agree with the methods used by Adam Goodes or not I am struggling with the concept of not seeing the difference between calling a black person an ape and calling a white person an ape.
For all the reasons stated here and the history of the term being used to signify that blacks are somehow sub human and not as evolved as whites it is a term that never should be used.
I recall years ago getting into trouble at work when I made a joke about a lady who worked for me being short. It was meant with no harm at all and in fact it was lighthearted and friendly but it turned out that she was bullied as a child for her height. What I realised from that is that it wasn't about me it was about her and no matter how I meant the joke it was wrong and it caused hurt.
It's the same thing with the term ape to an indigenous person, it's not about us and how we mean it but it is about them and what it means to them. We need to stop telling people how they should feel.
I think political correctness has gone too far in some places and I know the argument that much of the history comes from generations before, but it is our country that created this issue with a long history of racial vilification. Its hardly more than 50 years since indigenous australians were recognised constitutionally as no more than flora and fauna.
I recently heard statistics on the incarceration rates in NT of indigenous people and they are truly shocking. NT has the 3rd highest incarceration rate in the world, high deaths in custody and a massive indigenous jailed population. This is shared responsibility with all australians , indigenous and non indigenous, but a good place to start is to stop doing things that make indigenous Australians feel vilified.
Adam Goodes is a voice for indigenous Australia, you may or may not like him and his methods but at least we are talking about it
For all the reasons stated here and the history of the term being used to signify that blacks are somehow sub human and not as evolved as whites it is a term that never should be used.
I recall years ago getting into trouble at work when I made a joke about a lady who worked for me being short. It was meant with no harm at all and in fact it was lighthearted and friendly but it turned out that she was bullied as a child for her height. What I realised from that is that it wasn't about me it was about her and no matter how I meant the joke it was wrong and it caused hurt.
It's the same thing with the term ape to an indigenous person, it's not about us and how we mean it but it is about them and what it means to them. We need to stop telling people how they should feel.
I think political correctness has gone too far in some places and I know the argument that much of the history comes from generations before, but it is our country that created this issue with a long history of racial vilification. Its hardly more than 50 years since indigenous australians were recognised constitutionally as no more than flora and fauna.
I recently heard statistics on the incarceration rates in NT of indigenous people and they are truly shocking. NT has the 3rd highest incarceration rate in the world, high deaths in custody and a massive indigenous jailed population. This is shared responsibility with all australians , indigenous and non indigenous, but a good place to start is to stop doing things that make indigenous Australians feel vilified.
Adam Goodes is a voice for indigenous Australia, you may or may not like him and his methods but at least we are talking about it
Sintiger said:
Unfortunately, any black or white person with a Neanderthal facial structure still seems to bother certain people. I still see and hear it in public, and one of my uncles looks like this. I've always wondered that if an ape / gorilla was as cute as a cat or dog or koala or bird etc.. would these people be offended?
TigerForce said:
If the inference was that as a result of their appearence they were "sub-human" and thus naturally less intelligent than people with whiter skin and a less aggressive jaw and brow structure and more suited to manual labour? Yes, my guess is they would be still be offended.
Sintiger said:
great post Sin. I'll just add to your stats, Aboriginal people didn't have equal pay in QLD until 1986.
Are these the questions I didn't answer? I didn't think the discussion was getting anywhere but here goes:
Not sure why Rosy, Goodes hasn't forced anyone to do anything (as another poster pointed out) and he certainly wasn't responsible for how the girl was treated.
Strange question Rosy. It is us and them. That is not ambiguous. Why should Goodes want to feel part of the society that first displaced his ancestors then culled them then treated them like agricultral livestock and now treats them dependant children? I know it wasn't us specifically, but Australian society is fractured down many lines and one of the biggest is the one Goodes highlights.
Do you think Aboriginal Australians should just blend in to the cultural norms of their oppressors? Should they become lawyers and doctors and want to "get on the property ladder"? Is that the measure of success. That we are all the same? I think the measure is that we are all treated the same. By the law. That we all have the same opportunities to follow whatever path we choose. At the moment that just isn't true for the vast majority of Aboriginal Australians and it needs to find a way to get into our consiousness.
I don't Rosy but then why all the talk about guilt and how you aren't "personally" responsible for the atrocities of European settlers if the issue isn't "personal"?
Oh come on Rosy. Adam highlights Aboriginal issues and puts them front and centre. These are the biggest issues and it is through people like Goodes having a public profile that we can get to have a discussion about it in prime time and maybe get a better outcome for people. My point is that there are massive issues for Aboriginal Australian that are specific and that wouldn't be tolerated in "white" society. Goodes points out that the differences in how people are treated are still relevant today, they are not part of history, they are curent. My point is that if some of these attitudes persist in a "modern" footy crowd do they also persist in Government? Do they explain the NT intervention? Do they explain why when Goodes speaks up we talk about him and not the issues that are far more important.
rosy23 said:
Not sure why Rosy, Goodes hasn't forced anyone to do anything (as another poster pointed out) and he certainly wasn't responsible for how the girl was treated.
Strange question Rosy. It is us and them. That is not ambiguous. Why should Goodes want to feel part of the society that first displaced his ancestors then culled them then treated them like agricultral livestock and now treats them dependant children? I know it wasn't us specifically, but Australian society is fractured down many lines and one of the biggest is the one Goodes highlights.
Do you think Aboriginal Australians should just blend in to the cultural norms of their oppressors? Should they become lawyers and doctors and want to "get on the property ladder"? Is that the measure of success. That we are all the same? I think the measure is that we are all treated the same. By the law. That we all have the same opportunities to follow whatever path we choose. At the moment that just isn't true for the vast majority of Aboriginal Australians and it needs to find a way to get into our consiousness.
I don't Rosy but then why all the talk about guilt and how you aren't "personally" responsible for the atrocities of European settlers if the issue isn't "personal"?
Oh come on Rosy. Adam highlights Aboriginal issues and puts them front and centre. These are the biggest issues and it is through people like Goodes having a public profile that we can get to have a discussion about it in prime time and maybe get a better outcome for people. My point is that there are massive issues for Aboriginal Australian that are specific and that wouldn't be tolerated in "white" society. Goodes points out that the differences in how people are treated are still relevant today, they are not part of history, they are curent. My point is that if some of these attitudes persist in a "modern" footy crowd do they also persist in Government? Do they explain the NT intervention? Do they explain why when Goodes speaks up we talk about him and not the issues that are far more important.
KnightersRevenge said:
Which way do you want it? On one hand, you're saying that they shouldn't blend in with the cultural norms of their oppressors but then on the other you say they should be treated the same by the law. Whose law are we talking about exactly?
Opportunities - what opportunities are you referring to? The aboriginal people are hunters and gatherers. They've done this for thousands of years.
This is the issue for me. The aboriginal people have to adapt to the modern world. I'm not just talking about white Australia. And I'm not saying they have to abandon their culture either. They just need to find their place. But they're not going to do it by bringing up past injustices. Yes, we need to be aware of history but don't let it get in the way of progress either.
He drooped in my eyes last night. Some champs stay on a year or 2 too long and start cheating and playing dirty. Showing all the signs of that.
