Re: Adam Goodes | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Re: Adam Goodes

Giardiasis said:
I find the distinction people are making between "race" as part of the problem. We still seem so preoccupied with making superficial genetic differences seem important. We are all human beings; we all have the ability to reason.

Agree. I think Adam Goodes is a big culprit. We are all "people". He appears to almost denounce his own heritage in regards to him bagging our white history of the past. He's part of it too. In reality none of us had any say over happenings of the past. We can all try to improve the future.
 
rosy23 said:
Hmmmm...who are you referring to glantone? How does one get pages in their tiny little credibility books? Who judges them and what is the criteria? That comes across as a gratuitous personal insult towards those who disagree with your view.

I don't think it's a case of apparently. More a case of fact. I also doubt very much people are erasing everything else he is and has done on that one boo boo.

Every instinct I know tells me that white people have no right to refer to black people as apes, not ever. And that includes kids.

Given that 1eyed addressed that particular view of mine as racist and I would have thought it was crystal Rosy that I was addressing 1eyed, …. and hopefully by default anyone else who shares this view.
I find the entire tone and tact of 1eyed’s post to be masking racism. Rather than addressing how racist the ape comment was and still is, 1eyed, instead deflects to pondering the injustice of it all if blacks were to get away with calling each other ‘apes’ or if blacks were to get away with calling whites ‘apes’. Sounds like 1eyed is searching for an environment in which calling a black person an ape can somehow be justified. Just my opinion.

Rosy, 1eyed reckons Goodes has no cred in his book. Maybe you do too. Well, Goodes has played in 2 premierships, has multiple Brownlow bling, is all Australian god knows how many times, has probably won other medals, Australian of the year, Indigenous team of the century, god knows how much community work. Now if that cred can’t get into anyone’s book how expansive can such a book be?

I haven’t read the articles in which what he refers to the girl as the face of racism so I used the term ‘apparently’ to avoid being misquoted. Failed there in a sense but like I said, it was a terrible thing to say.

Now if my view on this comes across as a gratuitous insult to people who hold 1eyed’s view, as I read it, then there you have it.

So what are his other boo boos in your view Rosy?
 
Occurred to me today that Jarryd Roughead looks vaguely like an orang-utan.

01704f2e-b29e-49a4-a2dd-513b795b933e_500.jpg
orangutan_1_by_afira.jpg
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Occurred to me today that Jarryd Roughead looks vaguely like an orang-utan.
.......

When I heard Goodes called an ape I hadn't heard the term used in a derogatory fashion to black people before. Maybe it's the kind of people I mix with. Others on here refused to believe that. I got emails abusing me for being racist...as well as being overweight, sexually promiscuous and various kinds of porcine descriptions. :hihi

Now knowing the connotation of course I find it unacceptable. No need for it. I still don't think the girl was necessarily being racist. In fact I suspect she wasn't. Hopefully like me she's learned something. It's a shame it was done in such a humiliating and public fashion. I think the way she was treated was despicable.

Who is Adam Goodes to label someone the face of racism, especially when he admitted she didn't know what she was saying? Why has he been silent in the past and why didn't Eddie cop similar a few days later? Hindsight shows he likes to make a scene in the Indigenous round and he no doubt picks his targets. I don't know why anyone resorts to name calling and confronting behaviour to get a message across. Not just Adam Goodes but people in general.
 
rosy23 said:
When I heard Goodes called an ape I hadn't heard the term used in a derogatory fashion to black people before. Maybe it's the kind of people I mix with. Others on here refused to believe that. I got emails abusing me for being racist...as well as being overweight, sexually promiscuous and various kinds of porcine descriptions. :hihi

Now knowing the connotation of course I find it unacceptable. No need for it. I still don't think the girl was necessarily being racist. In fact I suspect she wasn't. Hopefully like me she's learned something. It's a shame it was done in such a humiliating and public fashion. I think the way she was treated was despicable.

Who is Adam Goodes to label someone the face of racism, especially when he admitted she didn't know what she was saying? Why has he been silent in the past and why didn't Eddie cop similar a few days later? Hindsight shows he likes to make a scene in the Indigenous round and he no doubt picks his targets. I don't know why anyone resorts to name calling and confronting behaviour to get a message across. Not just Adam Goodes but people in general.

In my view his stopping and pointing out that little girl was non negotiable. We aint living in the 60's anymore. Goodes aint some indigenous boxer in a 2 bit travelling country show that people can mock.

Agree with you the way she was treated was despicable but Goodes did not remove her from her seat, or publicly humiliate her by escorting her up the steps, or separate her from whoever she was with (and if she wasn't alone where were her mates?). That was the security. Nor does Goodes have editorial control over tabloid papers and tv stations.
Pointing her out simply meant 'No. You can get away with that anymore. I am not an ape'

His response to Eddie was 'he is no longer my friend' or something wasn't it. Well, Eddie is an all powerful and high profile media, football and business personality. Publicly stating that he no longer considers him a friend packs a lot of punch for such a high flyer I would have thought.

Suggesting that he picks his targets I take it to mean Goodes is more comfortable picking on little girls than high profile grown men. Wow, I find that an appalling suggestion. I best leave this thread I think.

The political view he articulates regards the discrimination indigenous Australians have experienced and are experiencing. The fact that you describe him as a culprit of division and a bully gives grounds to the possibility that a portion of the booing crowd agree with you, and in fact strongly enough to boo him (not suggesting you would boo him) for his political activities. It’s a distinct possibility is it not.

If we accept the possibility that a portion of the booing crowd feel strongly enough to boo him for his political activities, and if we accept the probability that most of the booing hordes are non indigenous people then the more the crowd boo and the deeper people dig in against any suggestion that there are racist connotations involved here then the uglier and sadder the whole thing gets in my gratuitously insulting view.

If you want change in this world Rosy, you got to put noses out of joint. It's the way of the world.

I best get back to the footy threads where I am always comfortably wrong. Hardwick who I would have sacked is coaching well, the laggards who I would cut are playing well, and the Tiges who I thought would fall are climbing the ladder. Go Tiges!
 
Will digest that later glantone. Still in the process of replying to your previous question. For the sake of accuracy I need to do a bit of research before pressing send. Maybe later today. :)
 
glantone said:
Every instinct I know tells me that white people have no right to refer to black people as apes, not ever. And that includes kids.

........
Rosy, 1eyed reckons Goodes has no cred in his book. Maybe you do too. Well, Goodes has played in 2 premierships, has multiple Brownlow bling, is all Australian god knows how many times, has probably won other medals, Australian of the year, Indigenous team of the century, god knows how much community work. Now if that cred can’t get into anyone’s book how expansive can such a book be?

.........

So what are his other boo boos in your view Rosy?

I will send you a pm glantone.

I agree about point 1. That doesn't mean I don't think Goodes was a bully and handled it very poorly, and in a potentially humiliating and distressing fashion.

No I don't think Goodes has no credibility and have never suggested that. I feel the same about him as other footballers who've had similar success. I don't really know about his community work, same as I don't know about the community work of other successful footballers. Many seem to have a cause close to their heart. Not all of them choose the football arena to get their message across or politicise it but they still do very important work. I do support Adam's comments about violence against women. I hope he accepts it's a big issue with Indigenous people as well as in society in general. I also agree with his wish to have Indigenous Australians mentioned in the constitution. I wouldn't have a clue what he's done towards achieving those goals, or what anybody else is doing either, but I hope it happens.

Will respond to your question about boo boos, not that that's a term I'd use, later today.
 
Never fully appreciated Goodes as a footballer until the "150 years" exhibition game, where he was matched with Richo for a time and probably shaded him athletically. Used to think he strutted/"ponced" around the field, but he's just that good an athlete. Goodes at his best effects an aesthetic appeal similar to great poetry; like the champion sprinter Michael Johnson, he's simply pleasurable to watch.

It's possible to both admire Goodes the footballer and damn the things he said as AOTY in the same breath without being "racist".
 
rosy23 said:
I got emails abusing me for being racist...as well as being overweight, sexually promiscuous and various kinds of porcine descriptions. :hihi

Accusations of Racism, abusive emails and personal insults are terrible things one should not have to endure Rosy, but hey if I can put a smile on your dial, I happen to like overweight, sexually promiscuous people very much ;D
 
Chiang Mai Tiger said:
Accusations of Racism, abusive emails and personal insults are terrible things one should not have to endure Rosy, but hey if I can put a smile on your dial, I happen to like overweight, sexually promiscuous people very much ;D

[youtube=560,315]UKlO0hM-zMw[/youtube]

I'll go now.
 
Funny boys.

I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or too much info CM but thanks for the laugh. Haven't heard that for ages L2. Thanks.
 
glantone said:
Every instinct I know tells me that white people have no right to refer to black people as apes, not ever. And that includes kids.

Given that 1eyed addressed that particular view of mine as racist and I would have thought it was crystal Rosy that I was addressing 1eyed, …. and hopefully by default anyone else who shares this view.
I find the entire tone and tact of 1eyed’s post to be masking racism. Rather than addressing how racist the ape comment was and still is, 1eyed, instead deflects to pondering the injustice of it all if blacks were to get away with calling each other ‘apes’ or if blacks were to get away with calling whites ‘apes’. Sounds like 1eyed is searching for an environment in which calling a black person an ape can somehow be justified. Just my opinion.

Rosy, 1eyed reckons Goodes has no cred in his book. Maybe you do too. Well, Goodes has played in 2 premierships, has multiple Brownlow bling, is all Australian god knows how many times, has probably won other medals, Australian of the year, Indigenous team of the century, god knows how much community work. Now if that cred can’t get into anyone’s book how expansive can such a book be?

I haven’t read the articles in which what he refers to the girl as the face of racism so I used the term ‘apparently’ to avoid being misquoted. Failed there in a sense but like I said, it was a terrible thing to say.

Now if my view on this comes across as a gratuitous insult to people who hold 1eyed’s view, as I read it, then there you have it.

So what are his other boo boos in your view Rosy?

Who the hell are you to accuse me of being racist? For your information, I don't think that anyone should be calling anyone else an ape, full stop.
And what Adam Goodes does on the footy field has nothing to do with his credibility. It's his character that I'm questioning. You want to know what, I think much the same of Gary Ablett Snr. Stupid prick supplies drugs to a young lady that kills her. The *smile* should have been jailed for a long time. But oh no, he was great at playing football and that made it alright.

Adam Goodes annoys me because he keeps lumping all white people alive today with those who committed atrocities against the aboriginal people in the past. Well, to hell with that. I wasn't there and I'm not going to let someone tell me I'm part of it. Also, if he did his little dance before the game in front of the Swans supporters, I have no problem with that either. By doing it in front of the opposition supporters, he was deliberately antagonizing them and he knew it so stop making excuses for it.

My message to the aboriginal community is that they have a choice. They can either keep going on as they are bringing up the past, or they can join the modern world. I couldn't care less if everyone packed up and left Australia, leaving it the way we found it. But if the aboriginal people think that will solve their problems, they've got another thing coming. It won't be their country for very long. It's a much smaller world these days. Get used to it.

And if you still think I'm racist. So be it because I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single person on the planet who isn't at least a little racist, yourself included.
 
1eyedtiger said:
...

My message to the aboriginal community is that they have a choice. They can either keep going on as they are bringing up the past, or they can join the modern world. I couldn't care less if everyone packed up and left Australia, leaving it the way we found it. But if the aboriginal people think that will solve their problems, they've got another thing coming. It won't be their country for very long. It's a much smaller world these days. Get used to it.

And if you still think I'm racist. So be it because I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single person on the planet who isn't at least a little racist, yourself included.

Tough talk 1eyed. Diseases that are unheard of in "white Australia" kill Indiginous. How is the "modern world" helping that situation? The NT Intervention just would not be tolerated if it applied to applied to any "white Australian" group. A questionable belief that kids were in danger caused a radical intervention and financial infantilisation of Aboriginal families. What radical action did the government take over the actual systemic child rape within the Catholic Church?

I agree with Gia that "race" is a social construct. But that doesn't really matter when 1 group within society are being treated as poorly as Indigenous Australians are, and if Goodes choses methods that make people uncomfortable then I understand why. And if you can't see that looking to play victim and pretend that when Goodes calls out actual racism by actual white people that your personal hurt feelings matter more than the good that might come from it? Well it's hard not to wonder whether your motivation is really just that another uppity black just got above his station. Harsh I know. But that is how it comes across.

People continue to look at Goodes in isolation and refuse to look at the issues he is trying to highlight. Yes he using his profile. He is using it to do some good. Rosy calls it bullying. That is to my mind completely ridiculous. When does an Aboriginal man in Australia get the chance to have the impact that Goodes does? He makes people uncomfortable. As uncomfortable as the massively skewed incarceration rates of Indigenous should make them but doesn't seem to?
 
bully1

verb
1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.

Yep I'm comfortable with that definition Knighters. Thrown in name-calling and personal insult. I respect your right to call it completely ridiculous but I don't agree.

Do you think Goodes includes himself in the white Australia, and our ancestors, that he is so bitter about? I don't get the impression he does. He certainly puts forward an us and them attitude, him on the Indigenous side and others on the white/European side. I don't feel the least bit guilty for being a white Australian. I wonder if Adam feels guilty about his own heritage. I had no say in past history. I'm sad and sorry it happened but harping on about it isn't the way to move forward and

I can assure you my personal feelings weren't hurt by Goodes. Not sure why you keep playing that card. How do you know personal feelings have been hurt rather than some just not liking the way he goes about it?

KnightersRevenge said:
... When does an Aboriginal man in Australia get the chance to have the impact that Goodes does? He makes people uncomfortable. As uncomfortable as the massively skewed incarceration rates of Indigenous should make them but doesn't seem to?

How do you know what people think about incarceration rates? I certainly haven't referred to that, or to the health and education problems you referred to in your quote of my post. I haven't heard Adam mention them, and they certainly aren't relevant to my comments on this thread. I'd be interested to read quotes where they have been mentioned, especially those that relate to actual comments on this thread.
 
YinnarTiger said:
Who did he intimidate and what did he force them to do?

To me labeling a 13 yo girl the face of racism, or anyone else for that matter, is extremely intimidating. He didn't exactly force her but he made a public call for her to contact him and apologise. I think Adam could also have apologised himself.
 
I doubt that the "face of racism" comment was directed at the girl so could hardly be seen as intimidating her. Reading the article that ToO linked to, it was more a comment directed to a society that finds that calling an indigenous person an ape is acceptable. I don't see anything in the article for which Goodes needs to apologise.

Goodes urged restraint in the backlash against the girl who vilified him and said he hoped she would contact him to apologise.
 
"People need to get around her. She's 13, she's uneducated. If she wants to pick up the phone and call me, I'll take the call."

"I've got no doubt in my mind she's got no idea what she was calling me last night."

"It's not a witch hunt. I don't want people to go after this girl."