Re: Adam Goodes

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Who is the real Adam Goodes? He's not the guy feigning naivety in the post-match interview, as is his wont.

Underneath the disguise I suspect he harbours his own fair share of hatred.

 

[Al Bundy]

Massive chip on his shoulder. My most disliked person who has been involved in the game.

Agree, have read so much of people responses in social media comment and it's no doubt evident.

Intriging was this latest act by him "war cry dance" didn't exist in the indigenous/aboriginal ( I'm confused which word is allowed to be used) cultures. It's fabricated. Directed at opposition supporters. Inciting a response, antagonise people, blues supporters weren't boing, as per his opinion that's it's a racial attack on him. So he was not targeted as he puts it. So why do it? Awareness of his culture? Ummm that act wasn' t part of his culture. Checked his Scotish/Irish/.English background (reported 75%) nope, that war dance not part of any his backgrounds. Ohhhh,hold it that's right a young kids made it up in recent years.

sorry Goodes I just don't get what the msg is here that you are promoting. I'm all for awareness. Even my own culture suffered hundreds of years of oppression. Many cultures have suffered in history. But find your latest "message" confusing especially in a football round that tries to celebrate, appreciate and recognise the ingenious culture to Australia. Try to send a positive message into the community that I believe is working. Embracing each other's background in a "positive" inviting manner.. Nope didn't see that in your merry dance.

 

[Scoop]

I struggle to understand the fuss from both sides.

It's hard to believe the Goodes boos are racially motivated when Franklin, on the same team, doesn't get them.

It's hard to believe anyone can take offense at his war dance.

But the most difficult to swallow is that in this day and age, in Australia, we still have such large issues regarding race, color, whatever.

Ralph and Sam on the same page. Can't believe the fuss. I'm pro Goodes, been a champion of the game and will be in the hall of fame. But I'm excited to see what he does after the game.

Greg Ingles has done the same thing for years in the NRL. Seem right to do it as part of the Indigenous round. If people take offence to what happened last night, we are further back than I thought.

 

[fastin bulbous]

Just a little reminder for those who wonder why an aboriginal person may have a 'chip on their shoulder' (be angry and upset with white culture) - there has never been a proper acknowledgement of the systematic rape, murder and genocide of aboriginal people in this country. Not to mention the continued theft and exploitation of traditional lands and erosion of cultural imperatives via the 'education' system. We continue to refer to disfunctional behaviour we see on the street as somehow associated with traditional cultural values but what we see is a response to several generations of abuse, racism and trauma by people who are always portrayed as the problem.
My great uncle, a pilbera pastoralist and pearler used to write home showing off about the torture he inflicted on aboriginal people who were slaves on their own country. I suggest you educate yourself a bit if you don't know about this revolting history we all share. A video called how the west was lost will give you a good insight into the pilbera if you wish to watch. I was personally really surprised to watch and learn about a peice of wa history never talked about.
I have a chip in n my shoulder about our history. I continue to live and work with aboriginal people and daily see the response to institutionalised racism and cultural trauma. I also see the narrow and somewhat disgusting, ignorant template that Us White people place on aboriginal people that lacks so much understanding. No excuse anymore.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Who is the real Adam Goodes? He's not the guy feigning naivety in the post-match interview, as is his wont.

Underneath the disguise I suspect he harbours his own fair share of hatred.

If he does I wouldn't begrudge him after some of the *smile* I have seen peddled around this week.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Just a little reminder for those who wonder why an aboriginal person may have a 'chip on their shoulder' (be angry and upset with white culture) - there has never been a proper acknowledgement of the systematic rape, murder and genocide of aboriginal people in this country. Not to mention the continued theft and exploitation of traditional lands and erosion of cultural imperatives via the 'education' system. We continue to refer to disfunctional behaviour we see on the street as somehow associated with traditional cultural values but what we see is a response to several generations of abuse, racism and trauma by people who are always portrayed as the problem.
My great uncle, a pilbera pastoralist and pearler used to write home showing off about the torture he inflicted on aboriginal people who were slaves on their own country. I suggest you educate yourself a bit if you don't know about this revolting history we all share. A video called how the west was lost will give you a good insight into the pilbera if you wish to watch. I was personally really surprised to watch and learn about a peice of wa history never talked about.
I have a chip in n my shoulder about our history. I continue to live and work with aboriginal people and daily see the response to institutionalised racism and cultural trauma. I also see the narrow and somewhat disgusting, ignorant template that Us White people place on aboriginal people that lacks so much understanding. No excuse anymore.

Do you believe the Mabo decision, Rudd's apology, acknowledging Aboriginals in the constitution have made/will make much practical difference to the lives of Aboriginals generally? Have they eased the cultural trauma you speak of?

 

[joegarra]

I agree totally that the treatment of indigenous people was and still is poor. Their health outcomes still lag way below the rest of Australia and that is a national shame. But, doing a war dance towards opposition supporters is not helping that.

 

[tigerdave]

Goodes is a flog!

 

[AngryAnt]

It is a fallacy that slavery results in higher economic growth. It is the productivity of labour that matters, and labour is far more productive when people are free to choose their employment arrangements.

I'm sure the millions of slaves who were tortured, imprisoned raped, murdered and never paid a penny for the whole lives would feel much better about it given a fatuous libertarian argument applied retrospectively to their situation.

 

[fastin bulbous]

Do you believe the Mabo decision, Rudd's apology, acknowledging Aboriginals in the constitution have made/will make much practical difference to the lives of Aboriginals generally? Have they eased the cultural trauma you speak of?

I know the traditional owner in Arnhem land who was granted sea rights over the tidal areas of his country and acknowledgement by the courts has been a great symbolic source of power....but he and his family have owned that country for thousands of years and they were never in doubt of their right to manage it as they saw fit.

I think rudds apology may have been greatly healing for many people, but it was only for the stolen generation and nothing more. He never switched off the intervention (Howard's nt 'emergengy' response) which was implemented by suspending the racial discrimination act. And it is still going under a different guise.

A mention in the constitution will recognise aboriginal people but not heal the ongoing damage without real national intent and buy in. Unfortunately, it's all too hard for most of us to show the kind of understanding that goes beyond economic rationalist or lefty or ultra conservative rhetoric. To understand, we need to invest time and energy in understanding living aboriginal language, country, culture and its extraordinary vitality.

We also must pay respect to what has been lost and/or taken. Remember, aboriginal people were classed as flora and fauna until 1966. That's not so long ago.

 

[IanG]

Those who are bothered by this, why?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I know the traditional owner in Arnhem land who was granted sea rights over the tidal areas of his country and acknowledgement by the courts has been a great symbolic source of power....but he and his family have owned that country for thousands of years and they were never in doubt of their right to manage it as they saw fit.

I think rudds apology may have been greatly healing for many people, but it was only for the stolen generation and nothing more. He never switched off the intervention (Howard's nt 'emergengy' response) which was implemented by suspending the racial discrimination act. And it is still going under a different guise.

A mention in the constitution will recognise aboriginal people but not heal the ongoing damage without real national intent and buy in. Unfortunately, it's all too hard for most of us to show the kind of understanding that goes beyond economic rationalist or lefty or ultra conservative rhetoric. To understand, we need to invest time and energy in understanding living aboriginal language, country, culture and its extraordinary vitality.

We also must pay respect to what has been lost and/or taken. Remember, aboriginal people were classed as flora and fauna until 1966. That's not so long ago.

Thanks for your answer. What I was getting at is a seeming preoccupation with the symbolic rather than the practical. What do you think is the one thing that Australia can do that would benefit Aboriginals the most? Or did you answer that question above?

 

[AMPS]

Those who are bothered by this, why?

Good question. We have miles to go as a society if Goodes behaviour is seen as divisive. Some good comment going on at the moment from Nathan Thompson and Rohan Connolly.

 

[Giardiasis]

I'm sure the millions of slaves who were tortured, imprisoned raped, murdered and never paid a penny for the whole lives would feel much better about it given a fatuous libertarian argument applied retrospectively to their situation.

The end of slavery owes much to the arguments and policy recommendations of liberalism (now referred to as libertarianism). What point are you trying to make?

 

[Giardiasis]

What do you think is the one thing that Australia can do that would benefit Aboriginals the most?

Stop interfering in their lives, and treating them differently to everyone else.

 

[Rosy]

Stop interfering in their lives, and treating them differently to everyone else.

Interesting Gia. Can you give some examples please?

 

[Giardiasis]

Interesting Gia. Can you give some examples please?

Indigineous round, aboriginal or torres strait islander tick boxes on practically every form, corporate indigenous australian policies, welfare programs, NT intervention, affirmative action for indigenous employment, abstudy, welcoming ceremonies, the recognise campaign... to name a few.

 

[AngryAnt]

The end of slavery owes much to the arguments and policy recommendations of liberalism (now referred to as libertarianism). What point are you trying to make?

That's fine Gman, but what point were you trying to make initially? There is no doubt at all that great wealth was generated by slavery historically so to say that other modes of labour are more efficient in different economic contexts means nothing in the context of this discussion.

 

[Giardiasis]

That's fine Gman, but what point were you trying to make initially? There is no doubt at all that great wealth was generated by slavery historically so to say that other modes of labour are more efficient in different economic contexts means nothing in the context of this discussion.

I was countering the point that Australians today are wealthier by virtue of slavery. The context being that current day Australians owe their well being to it. This is false. Thinking otherwise can lead to fallacious reasoning that current day Australians should feel a sense of guilt.

 

[Rosy]

Thanks Gia. Some food for thought there. I'd love to see the day everyone is treated equally. Not sure about the welfare one. Non-indigenous Aussies are also subject to welfare rules. It can be abused but someone needs to protect the vulnerable, especially in regards to child abuse and domestic violence. A lot of babies are still taken from their mothers at birth. I find it really sad but even sadder would be seeing a starving, neglected, possibly drug addicted toddler regardless of whether they're black, white or brindle.

The issue I have with Adam Goodes is that he's confrontational, divisive and political. He hits out rather than embraces. Michael Long on the other hand is non-political and strives to be inclusive of everyone. Far less us and them. Far less blame and resentment and more working for a better future. Martin Flanagan discussed the differences in the two on the radio yesterday.

He also said

Earlier this year, Age sportswriter Jake Niall wrote an outstanding column in which he quoted black American conservative commentator Shelby Steele saying there are two sorts of black public figures in the US: bargainers and challengers. The bargainer, wrote Niall, "adopts a 'go along to get along' view". He quoted Noel Pearson's description of a bargainer: "I will not use America's history of racism against you, if you promise not to use my race against me." Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey fit this model.

Niall wrote: "The challenger, conversely, does not let racism slide. The challenger sees racism as endemic. He does not go along to get along, and often has an angry edge." .... Goodes, it seems, is a challenger.

In the past 2 years Goodes' actions have disappointingly caused conflict and division in a round that's designed for celebration and unity. I don't think he's done much good for the cause at all.