Pick 12 discussion.

[bullus_hit]

Gary Rohan won the kicking test in its first year so it's hardly proof that a player is a reliable kick because Rohan is far from it.
Why is slack given to Cockatoo but not Ellis who also suffered from a stress fracture in his foot this year? In many ways Cockatoo has benefited from only playing one game this year.

I'm not judging the kicking test in isolation, I thought I made that pretty clear. What it demonstrates is a dual-sided ability when the pace is slowed down. From his Allies game I think he demonstrated an ability to kick at full pace and use his non-preferred.

In the end we can debate the handicaps until the cows come home, Ellis may even be considered the better kick of the two, but that doesn't make Cockatoo a bad kick and that doesn't make Ellis a better selection. I've articulated why I think Cockatoo will be better for Richmond, he brings flare & dash to our meat & potatoes line-up. He has enormous upside & he will get people through the turnstiles. If people are content with a good honest link player then Ellis is the man. If others like myself want a true line-breaker who will take the game on then Nakia is the one. One game or not, we can still make judgements on a players ability and I'm trusting my instincts when it comes to Cockatoo.

 

[Jonesracing82]

as a matter of interest Bully.
who do you rate in order of the Players likely to get to our pick?

 

[bullus_hit]

as a matter of interest Bully.
who do you rate in order of the Players likely to get to our pick?

Wright
Cockatoo
Weller
Ahern
Duggan
Ellis

 

[Jonesracing82]

Wright
Cockatoo
Weller
Ahern
Duggan
Ellis

cheers for that. am trying to get a picture from a few posters so i can follow the Draft and know if it's a good result or not.

 

[Smoking Aces]

I'm not judging the kicking test in isolation, I thought I made that pretty clear. What it demonstrates is a dual-sided ability when the pace is slowed down. From his Allies game I think he demonstrated an ability to kick at full pace and use his non-preferred.

In the end we can debate the handicaps until the cows come home, Ellis may even be considered the better kick of the two, but that doesn't make Cockatoo a bad kick and that doesn't make Ellis a better selection. I've articulated why I think Cockatoo will be better for Richmond, he brings flare & dash to our meat & potatoes line-up. He has enormous upside & he will get people through the turnstiles. If people are content with a good honest link player then Ellis is the man. If others like myself want a true line-breaker who will take the game on then Nakia is the one. One game or not, we can still make judgements on a players ability and I'm trusting my instincts when it comes to Cockatoo.

Cockatoo in the media said he would love to play for Port. What's to say he will see out his contract and then pack his bags. Can he handle the big smoke of Melbourne?

 

[bullus_hit]

Cockatoo in the media said he would love to play for Port. What's to say he will see out his contract and then pack his bags. Can he handle the big smoke of Melbourne?

He's a Port supporter, most kids want to play alongside their idols. I suspect once he gets into a professional environment he'll be fine, given that Port have pick 58 I think Nakia realises he will not be playing for the Power.

 

[Scoop]

Cockatoo in the media said he would love to play for Port. What's to say he will see out his contract and then pack his bags. Can he handle the big smoke of Melbourne?

This is another genuine concern. The kicking, the one game fact, the go home factor are all enough for me to lean towards Weller out of the two.

 

[Smoking Aces]

This is another genuine concern. The kicking, the one game fact, the go home factor are all enough for me to lean towards Weller out of the two.

Hence why I am asking these questions. At the end of the day no one knows but I am sure it's at the forefront of our recruiters.

We could argue until the cows come home on who will be better out of Weller / Duggan but you can almost guarantee they will be there for the long run.

 

[bullus_hit]

This is another genuine concern. The kicking, the one game fact, the go home factor are all enough for me to lean towards Weller out of the two.

Like you have alluded to previously I think that decision will be taken out of our hands, West Coast are likely to take pace, it will be either Weller or Cockatoo, we simply grab the player who is left.

 

[pahoffm]

Reckon pick 12 this season might end up a very unknown quantity until it is announced.
There seem to be so many combinations, with many saying that many of the top 10 could well slip to #12 on the day.

I've even heard that, like Grundy a couple of years ago, Peter Wright could even slip to pick #12, which could make it hard.

Also reckon that we are in a very similar position to what Hawthorn were in during the 2007 (Cotchin's) draft.
They had pick #12 then and could have gone with any number of good players.
They realised that they weren't going to get an early pick again for a good few years and were prepared to go with an X factor.
They chose Rioli, who had suffered injury during his 2007 draft year and had played the Nat U18 Champs as a target forward.

Maybe it's our turn to roll the dice on an X factor.
We're not going to get a top 5 draft pick for the next few years unless we trade one of our very good players for one.

In this draft, there doesn't appear to be that much difference in talent between a pick #10 and a pick #30.
I'm told this morning that this year's top 5 are the worst since 2005 or 2006.
Anyway, I'll leave it up to Francis and the boys.
They've done well enough over the last few years.

 

[mrposhman]

I haven't seen much of either of them, but if Wright and Durdin are both on the table, why would we take Wright over Durdin? I know best player and all that, but is Wright really a ruck (he doesn't seem to think that's his best position), with Durdin looking more like a CHB or a CHF wouldn't he be a better fit for us.

I'd think with the number of talls talked about at the top end (Wright, McCartin, Lever, Goddard, Durdin) at least 1 will slip through to pick 12, and then it will be interesting to see which way FJ goes.

On the midfield side, Cal Twomey (or whatever his name is) did a Q&A during the week and was asked who he thought the best kicks in the draft were and in his top 5 were all of Duggan, Weller and Ellis, what are their other main qualities other than speed (obviously weller wins on that one), ie ball winning ability, tackling strength etc. Is Weller a good tackler (I haven't heard too much of the defensive side of his game), Duggans defensive side looks good, so I guess for FJ it will depend on which sums up to be the more complete player.

I have no idea who fits in there, it seems a very open draft after the first 3 picks.

 

[Chimptastic]

Also reckon that we are in a very similar position to what Hawthorn were in during the 2007 (Cotchin's) draft.
They had pick #12 then and could have gone with any number of good players.
They realised that they weren't going to get an early pick again for a good few years and were prepared to go with an X factor.
They chose Rioli, who had suffered injury during his 2007 draft year and had played the Nat U18 Champs as a target forward.

Maybe it's our turn to roll the dice on an X factor.
We're not going to get a top 5 draft pick for the next few years unless we trade one of our very good players for one.

I've noticed that similarity with Hawthorn myself. Ideally I'd say we're a year away from needing to take a gamble, but then again there may not be a worthwhile gamble next year around our pick. I'd go Duggan myself, but I'd certainly be excited if we made a play for a player with Rioli-like potential. If it pays off, it's perfect for our team.

 

[pahoffm]

Yes, agree.

It does become a case of less so the best junior available, and more so the junior that will make the most impact on our list.

 

[billyb#40]

Reckon pick 12 this season might end up a very unknown quantity until it is announced.
There seem to be so many combinations, with many saying that many of the top 10 could well slip to #12 on the day.

I've even heard that, like Grundy a couple of years ago, Peter Wright could even slip to pick #12, which could make it hard.

Also reckon that we are in a very similar position to what Hawthorn were in during the 2007 (Cotchin's) draft.
They had pick #12 then and could have gone with any number of good players.
They realised that they weren't going to get an early pick again for a good few years and were prepared to go with an X factor.
They chose Rioli, who had suffered injury during his 2007 draft year and had played the Nat U18 Champs as a target forward.

Maybe it's our turn to roll the dice on an X factor.
We're not going to get a top 5 draft pick for the next few years unless we trade one of our very good players for one.

In this draft, there doesn't appear to be that much difference in talent between a pick #10 and a pick #30.
I'm told this morning that this year's top 5 are the worst since 2005 or 2006.
Anyway, I'll leave it up to Francis and the boys.
They've done well enough over the last few years.

We don't have the 25 blokes of sufficient talent to carry a Rioli when he's off, or injured, or whatever
One day we might need an erratic bloke that plays a cameo game or 10 each season but we need blokes who perform week in week out.
On that basis I'd skip Cockatoo, and take a more conservative selection this year.

 

[bullus_hit]

I haven't seen much of either of them, but if Wright and Durdin are both on the table, why would we take Wright over Durdin? I know best player and all that, but is Wright really a ruck (he doesn't seem to think that's his best position), with Durdin looking more like a CHB or a CHF wouldn't he be a better fit for us.

I'd think with the number of talls talked about at the top end (Wright, McCartin, Lever, Goddard, Durdin) at least 1 will slip through to pick 12, and then it will be interesting to see which way FJ goes.

On the midfield side, Cal Twomey (or whatever his name is) did a Q&A during the week and was asked who he thought the best kicks in the draft were and in his top 5 were all of Duggan, Weller and Ellis, what are their other main qualities other than speed (obviously weller wins on that one), ie ball winning ability, tackling strength etc. Is Weller a good tackler (I haven't heard too much of the defensive side of his game), Duggans defensive side looks good, so I guess for FJ it will depend on which sums up to be the more complete player.

I have no idea who fits in there, it seems a very open draft after the first 3 picks.

Weller has a reasonable defensive game, as does Ellis. Both Duggan & Cockatoo are a step up and represent the best defensive options, Cockatoo laid 29 tackles at last year's carnival, it's one of his key strengths.

As far as inside qualities are concerned, I'd rank them Cockatoo, Weller, Ellis & then Duggan. I recognise Duggan has improved his inside game since the carnival but is still untested at state & VFL level.

 

[Stylo]

Weller has a reasonable defensive game, as does Ellis. Both Duggan & Cockatoo are a step up and represent the best defensive options, Cockatoo laid 29 tackles at last year's carnival, it's one of his key strengths.

As far as inside qualities are concerned, I'd rank them Cockatoo, Weller, Ellis & then Duggan. I recognise Duggan has improved his inside game since the carnival but is still untested at state & VFL level.

IMO Ellis is far and away the best inside player of that lot.

 

[bullus_hit]

IMO Ellis is far and away the best inside player of that lot.

64% of Cockatoos possessions were contested, Ellis was running at about half of that. Cockatoo averaged 3 clearances, Ellis 2. I would have Ellis on par with Weller, hard to split those two.

 

[Stylo]

64% of Cockatoos possessions were contested, Ellis was running at about half of that. Cockatoo averaged 3 clearances, Ellis 2. I would have Ellis on par with Weller, hard to split those two.

I reckon you're getting hung up on numbers there BH. You could argue Cockatoo plays as contested a style as Ellis but Weller isn't even close in that sense, though he's obviously superior on the outside.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Sold Bully. Get Cockatoo.

It's a bit of a gamble but we need another bull.

Confident Choc will have a big influence on him also.

 

[bullus_hit]

I reckon you're getting hung up on numbers there BH. You could argue Cockatoo plays as contested a style as Ellis but Weller isn't even close in that sense, though he's obviously superior on the outside.

Weller's inside game is being undersold by just about everyone, he wins just as many clearances as Ellis and will become more rounded as he puts on weight. If you have doubts have a look at the Collingwood Reserves game where he's matched up against men, he is a very proactive midfielder.