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Pick 12 discussion.
- Thread starter Tigerfan
- Start date
Yep agree totally. We have enough of these types. Time to let go of the safe pick and really start adding some dynasm to our team. X factor, leg speed, line breakers is what we should be looking for now.bullus_hit said:
from the limited highlights available on the net of weller, cockatoo, duggan and ellis, I would be disappointed if we went duggan or ellis over weller or cockatoo. My first choice would be weller just ahead of cockatoo. Weller will be a genuine well rounded mid once he fills out. both weller and cockatoo provide exactly what we need, that is zip in and around packs. duggan and ellis appear to be newman clones where their comfort zones are a kick behind the play where they can gather and drive forward. like newman, it'll be a massive task to transition them into genuine mids. however they appear to be FJ types and won't be surprised if we picked one of the 2.
Watching the AIS vs Collingwood match it's clear that Duggan will be groomed for Newman's role, that's essentially what he is, to attempt to turn him into a midfielder will be a long term mission. In his 6 games at the top level he's been used for his long kicking game, that's what he's good at so it's hard for me to see a coach trying to invent the wheel. Maybe his learning curve will be steep, who knows, but for now he's a long way off playing senior football as a rotational midfielder.
bullus_hit said:
Watch the TAC cup final regular season game against Gippsland Power to get a better sense of what he's capable of.
30 disposals 12 tackles and 2 goals
12 tackles is important because the TAC is renowned for not teaching kids a strong defensive game. 30 disposals in a game with 20 minute quarters and 2 goals while playing exclusively midfield. I don't have his clearance numbers but he would have had easily 5+
The AIS game is from ealry in the year (April) and was before he was moved into the midfield full time, which happened after the Champs.
You can't just look at the one game and make such a definitive judgement on a player.
Just playing Devils advocate, but would you prefer Chris yarran or Brandon Ellis? One has speed, x-factor and can kick a flashy goal. The Other is one paced, well skilled and has a strong character.
My point being we must be very careful in pigeon holing players, and better off sticking with the old mantra of best available. I firmly believe we need more speed across the ground, but must be careful not to be blindsided into choosing the wrong player with an invaluable first pick.
I Have no doubt Carlton made a big error with Yarran. Overrated their list and thought they were on the verge of a premiership. Thought all they needed was a bit of razzed dazzle.
My point being we must be very careful in pigeon holing players, and better off sticking with the old mantra of best available. I firmly believe we need more speed across the ground, but must be careful not to be blindsided into choosing the wrong player with an invaluable first pick.
I Have no doubt Carlton made a big error with Yarran. Overrated their list and thought they were on the verge of a premiership. Thought all they needed was a bit of razzed dazzle.
Tigerflag2008 said:
It does come down to needs also though. We have a team of, somewhat similar, Brandon Ellis types . Not saying it's a bad thing, but sometimes you need to overlook the best available to fill a need. If offered to choose between those kind of players I'd take the Yarran type right now.
Tigertool said:
Never ever with your first round pick. First round pick should be simple. Rate players in the draft from 1 to 12. Pick the highest rated player available at 12. If wright is there....it should be him.
Yarran one of the silkiest players you will see, however the last bloke I'd want playin for us in a big game, mentally and physically soft, misses big goals when it matters an when it gets real hard looks like a scared kid playinTigerflag2008 said:
FistFullOfDollars said:
I'm judging Duggan on his carnival as well, this is a much better barometer of how these lads will cope with the step up. Both Lennon & Vlastuin played some ripping TAC games in the midfield, that doesn't necessarily make them walk up starts at AFL level. The two factors conspiring against Duggan are his acceleration & agility, his first few steps are not particularly powerful, he recorded a 1.18 5m sprint & an 8.98 in the agility, bottom 18% & 5% respectively. He has also been successfully tagged out of matches at TAC level, this concerns me and has me questioning whether he has the tools to cope with the extra attention.
For all his impressive deeds at the tail end of the season he still represents a work in progress, no-one can deny this fact. He also has a lethal kick on him, something which leads me to believe he will thrive in Newman's role. In time he may step up to the plate, but trawling through the archives I see players like Suban, Hurn & Shaw mainly making a name for themselves in defence. These guys share very similar athletic traits to Duggan, they also play a similar game in terms of cutting up teams when given ample time & space.
I'm not anti Duggan but if a more accomplished midfielder is available then we should jump at that opportunity. If people want a more immediate impact then guys like Weller & Cockatoo have a more compelling case.
I think the combine is chronically overrated by fans.
The difference between the absolute elite and the very good is so small, yet it results in a large boost in a player's ranking.
I often think about how current star players would be perceived if their combine times were brought up after every AFL match to justify how well they had (or hadn't) performed. Jack Riewoldt vs Ben Griffiths for example would raise a legitimate debate on these measures, when it shouldn't even be a contest. I think it's unusual how much emphasis we place on one footballer being 0.3s faster than another footballer at draft time, yet during an AFL season we never, ever talk about such measures. All we care about is their impact on match day. Slow, fast, tall, short, fit, fat, whatever - if they perform we're happy, if they don't we rip into them.
Footskills, ball-winning, and hardness/pressure are probably the 3 most talked about factors on here after each game.
Why don't we talk about these same factors more often when discussing draft picks?
I was watching some highlights the other day of a few top picks and the same thought crossed my mind. It immediately changed my priorities and how I saw each player.
Whoever we pick, let's judge them with the basic question of "With a couple of preseasons, how would this guy have performed against Carlton and Port for us in finals? How would they perform against a Hawthorn/Sydney in a final?"
The difference between the absolute elite and the very good is so small, yet it results in a large boost in a player's ranking.
I often think about how current star players would be perceived if their combine times were brought up after every AFL match to justify how well they had (or hadn't) performed. Jack Riewoldt vs Ben Griffiths for example would raise a legitimate debate on these measures, when it shouldn't even be a contest. I think it's unusual how much emphasis we place on one footballer being 0.3s faster than another footballer at draft time, yet during an AFL season we never, ever talk about such measures. All we care about is their impact on match day. Slow, fast, tall, short, fit, fat, whatever - if they perform we're happy, if they don't we rip into them.
Footskills, ball-winning, and hardness/pressure are probably the 3 most talked about factors on here after each game.
Why don't we talk about these same factors more often when discussing draft picks?
CC TIGER said:
I was watching some highlights the other day of a few top picks and the same thought crossed my mind. It immediately changed my priorities and how I saw each player.
Whoever we pick, let's judge them with the basic question of "With a couple of preseasons, how would this guy have performed against Carlton and Port for us in finals? How would they perform against a Hawthorn/Sydney in a final?"
Yep, I sometimes find it amusing that a kid is downgraded because he ran the 20m in 3.01 seconds as though it's "slow" compared to the kid who ran it in 2.84. It's a big difference in the Olympics but surely it's negligible in AFL?Chimptastic said:
And as I've often said, how many past players wouldn't make it today because of beep tests, sprints, height, speed etc.
David Cloke: too fat, poor kick. Dale Weightman: too slow and short, Jack Dyer: too short, Kevin Bartlett: too small, not fast enough. Dermott Brereton: too short for CHF, Greg Williams: wrong body shape,
bullus_hit said:
I don't see the Eagles passing up pace. They are in the same boat we are, I think they will go for pace. But definitely a midfielder.
The closer we get to this draft, the more the order changes. It's the most wide open draft in years.
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