Pick 12 discussion.

[mad_tiggy911]

He won't be a top 12 pick but what are peoples thoughts on Harrison Wigg?

I've seen him use his non preferred and is capable of using it with his right. Vision and decision making look impressive and I don't think I've seen a junior kick this well in play before.

What's the knock on him? Doesn't win enough ball and too outside? Too short or not quick enough?

Looks like a perfect creative back pocket to me.

Will he be on the board at around our 2nd pick?

 

[Scoop]

I like Wigg but not at our second pick, not a true mid. I'd take him third round. If he's gone Josh Glenn is a very similar type.

Wigg is like Matthew Suckling at Hawthorn, doesn't win his own ball but is a laser coming out of the back half. Can cut open zones very quickly. I do agree that he would be a very good small defender. But it we go Wright at 12, then you have to go mid with the second pick. The quality of mids will drop at the third round.

 

[TigerFlag2017]

Duggan has a very nice highlights package.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

I like Wigg but not at our second pick, not a true mid. I'd take him third round. If he's gone Josh Glenn is a very similar type.

Wigg is like Matthew Suckling at Hawthorn, doesn't win his own ball but is a laser coming out of the back half. Can cut open zones very quickly. I do agree that he would be a very good small defender. But it we go Wright at 12, then you have to go mid with the second pick. The quality of mids will drop at the third round.

Sounds very logical. It will be an interesting draft that's for sure.

 

[Tigertough1974]

One thing that's certain is talls like Peter Wright don't come around too often, we baulked at Grundy and that to me was a mistake, particularly given we were scrounging around for a ruckman last year and had to settled for our third preference. Peter Wright has the potential to be a major weapon, for starters he would be the tallest CHF in the league by quite some margin. At 203cm he could also be the perfect foil for Maric, at least until he builds up and assumes number one ruck duties himself.

Midway through the year he was being talked up as the number 1 pick, this was coming on the back of some monumental performances in the TAC. Against the Eastern Ranges he had 19 touches, 8 contested marks and kicked 10 goals, 1 behind. Two weeks later against NT he had 21 touches, kicked 7.5 and took 6 contested marks. The next week another 19 possessions, 7 contested marks and 7 goals.

Do I believe he can hold down CHF? I give him a 60/40 chance of succeeding, his one on one ability isn't as impressive as say McCartin but his style is also completely different. Much like Vickery he outstretches his opponents instead of out muscling them, as he gains strength he may even develop an extra string to his bow, this will make him a nightmare match-up. The beauty with Wright is he can also play in the ruck, I prefer him as a forward but then again I preferred Ottens as a forward too. Things can change pretty quickly in football and players can adapt to the circumstances.

Wright's stocks cannot dip below a top 20 pick IMO, if he struggles at CHF then he will be an able ruckman who will demand a first round pick in the event he gets traded. He would also provide some leverage if we decide to cut Vickery loose, I say it would be too good an opportunity to pass up.

Thanks Bully

 

[Smoking Aces]

One thing that's certain is talls like Peter Wright don't come around too often, we baulked at Grundy and that to me was a mistake, particularly given we were scrounging around for a ruckman last year and had to settled for our third preference. Peter Wright has the potential to be a major weapon, for starters he would be the tallest CHF in the league by quite some margin. At 203cm he could also be the perfect foil for Maric, at least until he builds up and assumes number one ruck duties himself.

Midway through the year he was being talked up as the number 1 pick, this was coming on the back of some monumental performances in the TAC. Against the Eastern Ranges he had 19 touches, 8 contested marks and kicked 10 goals, 1 behind. Two weeks later against NT he had 21 touches, kicked 7.5 and took 6 contested marks. The next week another 19 possessions, 7 contested marks and 7 goals.

Do I believe he can hold down CHF? I give him a 60/40 chance of succeeding, his one on one ability isn't as impressive as say McCartin but his style is also completely different. Much like Vickery he outstretches his opponents instead of out muscling them, as he gains strength he may even develop an extra string to his bow, this will make him a nightmare match-up. The beauty with Wright is he can also play in the ruck, I prefer him as a forward but then again I preferred Ottens as a forward too. Things can change pretty quickly in football and players can adapt to the circumstances.

Wright's stocks cannot dip below a top 20 pick IMO, if he struggles at CHF then he will be an able ruckman who will demand a first round pick in the event he gets traded. He would also provide some leverage if we decide to cut Vickery loose, I say it would be too good an opportunity to pass up.

I just can't see how Wright slips past the first 7 picks let alone until pick 12. Like you said players of Wrights capabilities are rare and considering the recent loss of big men from GWS they would be mad to pass on him. They are placing a lot of eggs in the Cameron and Patton basket. One having another knee reco and the other possibly heading out of there at the end of next year.

To add to that a team like Collingwood could shore up their key position stocks for the next ten years by choosing a Wright / Moore combination.

 

[tigerdave]

if Wright get's to 12 and we don't grab him i'll nude it down the main street! ;D

 

[WesternTiger]

From Brett Anderson on SEN last night:

12. Rich - Duggan ahead of Ellis and that we would take Wright if he slipped through.

 

[tigersnake]

They are placing a lot of eggs in the Cameron and Patton basket.

Not really, most clubs don't have 1, let alone 2 power forwards. We know Cameron is very good, and Patton probably will be too. They're sorted.

They can't keep stockpliling trade commodities because it can impact salary cap and team stability. The only way they'd take another is if they are a guaranteed, as much as can be, superstar. Which Boyd pretty much was.

 

[bullus_hit]

From Brett Anderson on SEN last night:

12. Rich - Duggan ahead of Ellis and that we would take Wright if he slipped through.

We obviously don't rate Weller or the need for pace, not sure I'm comfortable with this strategy.

 

[Scoop]

We obviously don't rate Weller or the need for pace, not sure I'm comfortable with this strategy.

Conca, Vlasutin, Duggan or Ellis. All very same same, one paced.

I'm with you Bullly, I'd have Weller ahead of both. I rate Duggan and he could play that halfback kicker role but for were we are, I think the need for pushed him down slightly. Duggan is Luke McDonald like. Very much the same player.

In that scenario I'd hope Wright falls.

 

[St Kevin]

We obviously don't rate Weller or the need for pace, not sure I'm comfortable with this strategy.

Pace is only part of the problem. I actually don't think Hawthorn or Port are chock full of speedsters (granted they are quicker than us) but both those sides have precise and fast ball movement. They also emphasise guys who can run all day as central to their game plans (Smith, Hill, Polec etc).

If we get players that are deadly kicks I'll be somewhat placated. Even though we need to improve our pace, it is more imperative that we improve our ball movement and kicking skills imo. Move the ball quickly and precisely and speed isn't that important.

I can't think how many of our blokes would be considered elite kicks. Wouldn't be more than 4. Pace is an issue, but it can be mitigated if we improve our ball movement and footskills.

 

[K3]

From Brett Anderson on SEN last night:

12. Rich - Duggan ahead of Ellis and that we would take Wright if he slipped through.

Does this guy 'know' this or is he just take a stab at who we may pick? Also, if you can remember mate, was Weller and Cockatoo off the board by 12?

 

[bullus_hit]

Conca, Vlasutin, Duggan or Ellis. All very same same, one paced.

I'm with you Bullly, I'd have Weller ahead of both. I rate Duggan and he could play that halfback kicker role but for were we are, I think the need for pushed him down slightly. Duggan is Luke McDonald like. Very much the same player.

In that scenario I'd hope Wright falls.

Duggan is bottom 18% for pace, bottom 5% for agility, almost identical to Lennon last year. People get carried away by one TAC season playing in the midfield, then all of a sudden they are locks to join the rotations in season 1. Duggan will almost certainly be a 150 gamer but I can't see him providing the zippiness that we require to compete with the top 4. Same old, same old.

Pace is only part of the problem. I actually don't think Hawthorn or Port are chock full of speedsters (granted they are quicker than us) but both those sides have precise and fast ball movement. They also emphasise guys who can run all day as central to their game plans (Smith, Hill, Polec etc).

If we get players that are deadly kicks I'll be somewhat placated. Even though we need to improve our pace, it is more imperative that we improve our ball movement and kicking skills imo. Move the ball quickly and precisely and speed isn't that important.

I can't think how many of our blokes would be considered elite kicks. Wouldn't be more than 4. Pace is an issue, but it can be mitigated if we improve our ball movement and footskills.

Have a look at who Port & Hawthorn have recently targeted, pace, pace & more pace. We are constantly behind the eightball, it's time to mix it up a bit. We are developing a team of clones who give us an air of predictability. If we reach for someone like Drummond at 33 I will be bitterly disappointed, we have 2 good pace options staring us in the face at 12, no need to get cute.

 

[St Kevin]

Duggan is bottom 18% for pace, bottom 5% for agility, almost identical to Lennon last year. People get carried away by one TAC season playing in the midfield, then all of a sudden they are locks to join the rotations in season 1. Duggan will almost certainly be a 150 gamer but I can't see him providing the zippiness that we require to compete with the top 4. Same old, same old.

Have a look at who Port & Hawthorn have recently targeted, pace, pace & more pace. We are constantly behind the eightball, it's time to mix it up a bit. We are developing a team of clones who give us an air of predictability. If we reach for someone like Drummond at 33 I will be bitterly disappointed, we have 2 good pace options staring us in the face at 12, no need to get cute.

Who have Hawthorn targeted? Hartung, Anderson and Hill are more endurance athletes than overly pacy imo. Burgess is someone who has built his reputation around having his team able to outlast others. Speed is a part of their gameplans but it is behind endurance and precise ball movement in importance, both areas we are poor at.

I agree we need pace and that our list is rather predictable, but I think we need more damaging kicks as well as pace. Lennon was a nice start, but we need more damaging kicks. Plain and simple. As I said, how many truly elite kicks do we have? Hawthorn, Port have around 8 or 9 in their best 22s imo.

What annoys me even more is that you can add players with pace and a bag of tricks like Neade or Charlie Cameron with cheap picks or rookie selections, yet we pick a plodder like Lloyd.

 

[bullus_hit]

Who have Hawthorn targeted? Hartung, Anderson and Hill are more endurance athletes than overly pacy imo. Burgess is someone who has built his reputation around having his team able to outlast others. Speed is a part of their gameplans but it is behind endurance and precise ball movement in importance, both areas we are poor at.

I agree we need pace and that our list is rather predictable, but I think we need more damaging kicks as well as pace. Lennon was a nice start, but we need more damaging kicks. Plain and simple. As I said, how many truly elite kicks do we have? Hawthorn, Port have around 8 or 9 in their best 22s imo.

What annoys me even more is that you can add players with pace and a bag of tricks like Neade or Charlie Cameron with cheap picks or rookie selections, yet we pick a plodder like Lloyd.

Port targeted White & Polec, both acquired dirt cheap too. They also picked up Darcy Byrne-Jones last year, that's 3 guys who can run a sub 2.9sec/20 metre. Jake Neade & Kane Mitchell were picked up the previous season, both can run a sub 2.9 sprint - that's 5 speedsters in 2 years. Hawthorn have targeted Hill, Smith, Garlett & Hartung in the last few drafts, Hartung is an endurance runner but he's also quick. James Sicily can run a 2.84 he was picked up with a third rounder. See a trend emerging?

 

[Scoop]

Bully how did Luaks Webb test? I reckon he has a bit of Sicily about him.

 

[St Kevin]

Port targeted White & Polec, both acquired dirt cheap too. They also picked up Darcy Byrne-Jones last year, that's 3 guys who can run a sub 2.9sec/20 metre. Jake Neade & Kane Mitchell were picked up the previous season, both can run a sub 2.9 sprint - that's 5 speedsters in 2 years. Hawthorn have targeted Hill, Smith, Garlett & Hartung in the last few drafts, Hartung is an endurance runner but he's also quick. James Sicily can run a 2.84 he was picked up with a third rounder. See a trend emerging?

Did I say they weren't quick? Just that they weren't blazingly quick. I said that endurance and kicking skills are of as much if not more importance than pace. I also highlighted that we are deficient in the pace stocks, and we need to address that flaw.

But I also believe we are lacking in endurance athletes and guys with great footskills. And that I believe is something we need as much if not more than speed. We haven't got a player aside from Ellis and Gordon that has the tank of a Smith, Hill, Hartung, Polec etc. We haven't got players who can kick like Suckling, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Hartlett, Polec, Wingard etc aside from Martin, Lids and maybe Lennon. And that is something we need to address and should prioritised as much as speed.

I don't claim to know as much about the draft as you Bully, but Cockatoo seems to tick all the boxes regarding pace, endurance and skills. If he's there I hope we take him, if anything to see Turk-D-Tiger's head explode with joy. :hihi

Edit: Also as an aside, the thing Byrne-Jones, White, Polec, Neade, Hill, Hartung, Smith, Anderson etc all have in common is very good skills. Mitchell is the only one of those who is a butcher with the pill. We need more guys who are damaging by foot.

 

[bullus_hit]

Did I say they weren't quick? Just that they weren't blazingly quick. I said that endurance and kicking skills are of as much if not more importance than pace. I also highlighted that we are deficient in the pace stocks, and we need to address that flaw.

But I also believe we are lacking in endurance athletes and guys with great footskills. And that I believe is something we need as much if not more than speed. We haven't got a player aside from Ellis and Gordon that has the tank of a Smith, Hill, Hartung, Polec etc. We haven't got players who can kick like Suckling, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Hartlett, Polec, Wingard etc aside from Martin, Lids and maybe Lennon. And that is something we need to address and should prioritised as much as speed.

I don't claim to know as much about the draft as you Bully, but Cockatoo seems to tick all the boxes regarding pace, endurance and skills. If he's there I hope we take him, if anything to see Turk-D-Tiger's head explode with joy. :hihi

Edit: Also as an aside, the thing Byrne-Jones, White, Polec, Neade, Hill, Hartung, Smith, Anderson etc all have in common is very good skills. Mitchell is the only one of those who is a butcher with the pill. We need more guys who are damaging by foot.

Don't disagree with any of that, it's just the strategy I'm questioning. If we grab Duggan & then land one of Menadue, Garlett or McKenzie then we have met our objectives. If we grab say Drummond who is quick but a very unreliable kick, then we are jogging on the spot. My guess is that all the talented speedsters will be off the board by 33, that's my fear and that's why I feel we have to lock in pace with 12.

 

[Giardiasis]

With pick 12 and 33 we simply pick the best available. It's great when early picks align with needs, but drafting for needs ahead of quality is asking for trouble.