Pick 12 discussion.

[bullus_hit]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

And Grigg looks like making that look foolish. Ran third in the Margery and played the last five with the Crows and averaged 16 touches, 3.5 tackles and a goal. Will be a player. And Crouch is better. Much better.

Bit of both. Salem is a better finisher, I concede that. But we are desperate for inside help and toughness. Crouch has that. I think he is a carbon copy of Toby Greene. I think long term Crouch has the better career.

Grigg has taken his time though, and he's also faster than Crouch (albeit by only 0.05 sec over 20metres). I was also a fan of Grigg, but after his testing downgraded him to a second round pick. I think this is the point many are making, Crouch will probably have a good career but his skill set can usually be found in the second & third rounds. Salem's polish, dual-sideness, athletic abilities and versatility scream first-rounder, possibly top ten pick. You rarely find these attributes beyond pick 20, whereas Crouch's contested ball winning is consistently available with picks around the 20-45 mark.

I realise this may buck general consensus but I have Tsitas only marginally behind Crouch and I expect him to be available with a pick between 20-35. Next year there will be other bargains to be found, your Dane Swans, Luke Parkers, Daniel Hanneburys , Dane Beams, Andrew Swallows and Jack Stevens crop up year in, year out. Some even slip further down the order like Tuck & Barlow.

Judging by Franks recent selections, I think we can safely say that Matt Crouch won't be in Richmond colours next season. Melbourne or St Kilda seem the most likely destinations.

 

[Stylo]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Cambell Combe from SA is another great contested ball winner.

I'd much prefer we got a Salem/Combe combo than Crouch and a speculative runner at 50

 

[Scoop]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

I realise this may buck general consensus but I have Tsitas only marginally behind Crouch and I expect him to be available with a pick between 20-35. Next year there will be other bargains to be found, your Dane Swans, Luke Parkers, Daniel Hanneburys , Dane Beams, Andrew Swallows and Jack Stevens crop up year in, year out. Some even slip further down the order like Tuck & Barlow.

So if the second rounds is so easy to pluck A graders, best and fairest winners, All Australians and club captains from, why haven't we? If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. And if the second rounders can produce that type of footballer why pick Salem early? Your examples of Tuck & Barlow are so outside the norm that they can't be compared to Crouch.

 

[Harry]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Crouch averaged 37 possessions in the TAC cup. knows how to find the pill.

cotch needs some help with the clearance work.

 

[Gus]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Crouch averaged 37 possessions in the TAC cup. knows how to find the pill.

cotch needs some help with the clearance work.

If it's a needs based selection rather than the best available then he might fit the bill nicely.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

If it's a needs based selection rather than the best available then he might fit the bill nicely.

Angus Beef. On your list is Crouch top 15?

 

[evo]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Crouch averaged 37 possessions in the TAC cup. knows how to find the pill.

cotch needs some help with the clearance work.

that's always a really big plus for me. I'm usually willing to tolerate a weakness or two if the know how to consistently get the pill.

 

[zippadeee]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Is that McCarthy another darling??
As much as we need another midfielder, I would take a big forward over a mid in this draft.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

that's always a really big plus for me. I'm usually willing to tolerate a weakness or two if the know how to consistently get the pill.

If your looking for a template with Crouch it's Luke Ball, Andrew Swallow or Brad Sewell.

Salems is Daniel Hanerberry, Daniel Rich, Josh Caddy (better kick).

Not anti Salem but just think Crouch is getting sold short.

 

[bullus_hit]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

So if the second rounds is so easy to pluck A graders, best and fairest winners, All Australians and club captains from, why haven't we? If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. And if the second rounders can produce that type of footballer why pick Salem early? Your examples of Tuck & Barlow are so outside the norm that they can't be compared to Crouch.

We've had our chances Scoop, I don't see the point in dredging every single botched selection but the more notable ones have been Sanchez over Selwood, Batchelor over Parker, Casserly over Swallow, Schulz (potential pick 28) over Beams, Hannebury, Griffiths over Bastinac, Morton over Jack Steven. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to come up with any true contested ball winning mids with the exception of Matthew Arnot. We wasted a swag of picks on retreads and paid a hefty price for doing so.

But back on the topic of Salem versus Crouch, the former ticks just about every box you'd expect from a first rounder - first class decision-making, good on both sides of the body, a strong defensive game, versatility, an AIS graduate with strong leadership credentials, a sub 3 sec 20m sprint time, an AFL ready tank, strong overhead & a proven match-winner.

Crouch on the other hand is a bit patchy with his kicking, slow, not particularly versatile, doesn't have a big tank and from all reports isn't particularly good on the track. Now all this may change once in an AFL environment but it's those question marks which seperate him from the top dozen prospects. He may well go on to have a strong career but his type are one of the more common commodities when it comes to the draft pool.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

How much improvement does Salem have? Has always been one of the bigger kids? Man child perhaps? Luke Tapscott?

 

[bullus_hit]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

How much improvement does Salem have? Has always been one of the bigger kids? Man child perhaps? Luke Tapscott?

I think he's got loads of improvement left, his carnival was disappointing but if you caught the NSW game, you would have gotten a glimpse of what he's capable of in the role of goal kicking midfielder. I certainly wouldn't put him in the category of manchild, he's 183cm and 82 kg, not too dissimilar to Crouch who's 181cm & 80kg.

 

[Harry]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Does he get enough of it

 

[Scoop]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Crouch on the other hand is a bit patchy with his kicking, slow, not particularly versatile, doesn't have a big tank and from all reports isn't particularly good on the track. Now all this may change once in an AFL environment but it's those question marks which seperate him from the top dozen prospects. He may well go on to have a strong career but his type are one of the more common commodities when it comes to the draft pool.

Crouch's kicking is fine, it's as good as Reece Conca. If he is slow, so is Dom Sheed. He finds the ball and has time to get rid of it. Versatile? He averages 37 touches, five tackles, six clearances and is inside the top 10% at TAC Cup level for handball receives. Works inside out. Crouch went on the AIS trip and preformed well againsit the Collingwood VFL side. Runs on the board at both TAC and Championship. Isn't good on the track? Never heard it. His tank is fine. It's hard to win so much ball if you can't get around the ground. His numbers shadow Salem by a long way. Again, I am not anti Salem but for what we need, Crouch has too be in the mix.

If he ends up at Sydney with Tommy Mitchell, it's over. Sydney will win every clearance up to 2024.

 

[Stylo]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Salem only started playing footy when he was 14 so you'd think there's a fair bit of natural improvement left in him.

Not sold on Crouch personally. Seems a very messy footballer. Frenetic. Reminds me of Sam Lonergan. His kicking isn't quite that bad but it's not near as good as Conca's IMO Scoop

 

[wayne]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

We've had our chances Scoop, Griffiths over Bastinac,

Griffiths over Fyfe sounds worse for us ;D

 

[Brodders17]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

personally, without having seen any of the juniors play, i hope we steer clear of guys like Bontempelli and Acres. Some first round picks do fail, and history would suggest it is the guys who 'could be anything' the end up being not so much, especially those who could be KPs or mids. i would steer clear of any pure 'outside' mids for the same reason. at the moment i like our strategy of going for guys who will make it.

i agree with scoop of our need for a pure inside player so Crouch is worth considering, but the argument you can get them later rings a little true, and i guess it depends who is closer to the truth with their ratings of his kicking and running ability.

whilst i would totally avoid a short guy if they are the best at our pick, i would have a little reluctance to use a first round pick on a guy under about 178cm. reason being i think they can be a little limited in options if they dont make it as a mid. players that short are a risk to be used down back as they would get exposed in the air. up forward they can only play the roving role, not being able to provide a marking option, and as a winger they risk being exposed again in the air and cant provide a get out marking option. having said all that, again if they are good enough i would exclude a shorter player and Taylor sounds good as a goal kicking, running mid.

from what i have read, from those likely to be around at our pick, Salem is the one that fits our needs best. (nothing radical there i know.)

hope that makes sense.

 

[bullus_hit]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Does he get enough of it

He's not a possession junkie like Crouch but his hurt factor is in the elite category, he rarely wastes a disposal. He averaged 24 touches at TAC level but also hit the scoreboard and won a couple of matches off his own boot. He's the go to guy when the heat his on, he just has that extra polish that you know will translate well to AFL.

Crouch's kicking is fine, it's as good as Reece Conca. If he is slow, so is Dom Sheed. He finds the ball and has time to get rid of it. Versatile? He averages 37 touches, five tackles, six clearances and is inside the top 10% at TAC Cup level for handball receives. Works inside out. Crouch went on the AIS trip and preformed well againsit the Collingwood VFL side. Runs on the board at both TAC and Championship. Isn't good on the track? Never heard it. His tank is fine. It's hard to win so much ball if you can't get around the ground. His numbers shadow Salem by a long way. Again, I am not anti Salem but for what we need, Crouch has too be in the mix.

If he ends up at Sydney with Tommy Mitchell, it's over. Sydney will win every clearance up to 2024.

Crouch tested in the bottom 25% for all the running tests which places him at the bottom of the tree as far as midfielders are concerned. Sheed incidentally ran a 3 sec flat 20metres, there's a big difference between 3 seconds & 3.25. Crouch's stats at TAC level are mighty impressive but there are others such as Taylor who have averaged 30 touches or more but have more tricks up the sleeve. Taylor was actually nominated as the TAC player of the year, and has been ranked 6th by Champion Data. Crouch doesn't even feature in the top 10. Like I said, Crouch will probably have a good career but there are others who are more befitting of a first rounder IMO.

 

[Gus]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

Angus Beef. On your list is Crouch top 15?

Just misses.

 

[Gus]

Re: Looks like Pick 10

How much improvement does Salem have? Has always been one of the bigger kids? Man child perhaps? Luke Tapscott?

He can get a lot stronger and more explosive. He's a natural footballer with good instincts.