Palestine and Israel

[TigerMasochist]

Bit like the Europeans eh TM? To say that periodically every region has conflict is a fatuous truism. Conflicts happen but they rarely happen continuously in one geographic region for all of history, and to claim they do is just ahistorical dumbassery.

When I look at history I see that there are often choices made that make things either better or worse. We have peace in Northern Ireland, we've largely had peace in Europe until Vlad went nutso recently. Peace and stability takes effort and people actually trying rather than just shrugging your shoulders and whining "things have always been this way, so why bother"?

The Irish are off on extended smoko for the moment, but don't worry there's still a heap of distrust between the antagonists around the U.K.

Old mate Putinontheritz simply rolls from one punch on to the next he simply wants to steal back everything that the Russian empire gave back after they originally stole it all in the first place. Georgia, Chechnya, Belarus?? Ukraine, wherever else he can move his troops n puppet regimes into.

Wasn't all that long ago that there was some punch ons between Bosnians n Serbs n there's also long historical angst with Croatia in that region as well.

Then we have the ongoing argy, distrust n threats between North and South Korea.

Grandpa Xi has also decided he wants Honkers n Taiwan back under communist China's total control n he's gunna squeeze until he gets them.

Sri Lanka was going off a few years back and now that's settled down Myanmar has decided to arc up n do some cleansing of it's own.

Russia n America's recent involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq. Egypt, Israel. Lets not forget that there's also been a couple of insane rumbles pretty much involving the whole world in just over the last hundred years, hell why not chuck in the Korean and Vietnam wars n the old Cuban missiles Mexican stand off.

There's way to many ongoing conflicts within the various Arabic / African nations to even contemplate who's punching on with who or even why.

These rumbles might not individually run non stop for the entirety of history, they're simply on a high rotation of rinse and repeat.

 

[TigerMasochist]

At best, welding yourself into a ball and rolling onto The G and holding up the footy with

'Youse are all *smile* so go and get *smile*'

Sign?

Cost me ten grand to pull that stunt. That's simply way to much sippin money to waste.

 

[DavidSSS]

So 48 is simply a year where some legal beagles signed some paper work to set some parameters for who owned what regardless of a couple of thousand years of prior history.
So called anti semitism is nothing more than a pretty way of saying anti Jewish, dunno by who or why the term semitic was somehow warped to be pertaining only to Jews but that whole area was originally defined as being semitic.

Two state solution where everyone suddenly draws up new boundaries, shifts house and become bestie neighbours is never gunna happen. They been learning distrust, hatred, righteous revenge n martyrdom for thousands of years.

Not much the Palestinians can do except cop the serious beating they're getting at the moment. They can't run away n hide because none of the neighbours wants them and their Hamas mob has way overstepped the traditional boundary of niggling and sniping, enraging the Israelis who've rolled out into full scale brawl mode.
Got me a feeling that Hamas might have been expecting far more support n interference from some of the other Arabic nations rather than just a minor upscaling by Hezbollah n the Houthis.

1948 was not simply some legal mumbo jumbo - real people were kicked off their land and the state of Israel continues to kick people off their land, bulldoze their houses and move in their mates.

Not much the Palestinians can do? Ok, so if someone came and kicked you out of your house and your whole community were herded into a small area which is basically a ghetto, given you abhorrence of any sort of activism, you would just accept this? I wouldn't. The Palestinians are unwilling to just accept being thrown out and treated like they are sub-human and their reaction is thoroughly predictable.

2 state solution appears to be the only way forward. It doesn't matter if the Israel government does not accept it if the USA stops supplying them with weapons and says this is the way it is, then that is the way it will be.

As Ant said - Ireland has calmed down and TM, you would be old enough to remember the troubles, they looked intractable, yet we now have peace. The EU is a confederation of countries who caused 2 world wars last century - it is unthinkable that countries like Germany, Belgium and France could all be in one regional group as allies when you look from the perspective of the first half of the 20th century, yet, here we are.

Things change, sometimes they even change for the better. Sometimes even the oppressors get sick of the backlash to their actions and the insecurity it causes.

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

The Irish are off on extended smoko for the moment, but don't worry there's still a heap of distrust between the antagonists around the U.K.

Old mate Putinontheritz simply rolls from one punch on to the next he simply wants to steal back everything that the Russian empire gave back after they originally stole it all in the first place. Georgia, Chechnya, Belarus?? Ukraine, wherever else he can move his troops n puppet regimes into.

Wasn't all that long ago that there was some punch ons between Bosnians n Serbs n there's also long historical angst with Croatia in that region as well.

Then we have the ongoing argy, distrust n threats between North and South Korea.

Grandpa Xi has also decided he wants Honkers n Taiwan back under communist China's total control n he's gunna squeeze until he gets them.

Sri Lanka was going off a few years back and now that's settled down Myanmar has decided to arc up n do some cleansing of it's own.

Russia n America's recent involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq. Egypt, Israel. Lets not forget that there's also been a couple of insane rumbles pretty much involving the whole world in just over the last hundred years, hell why not chuck in the Korean and Vietnam wars n the old Cuban missiles Mexican stand off.

There's way to many ongoing conflicts within the various Arabic / African nations to even contemplate who's punching on with who or even why.

These rumbles might not individually run non stop for the entirety of history, they're simply on a high rotation of rinse and repeat.

So it's all too difficult, let's just shrug our shoulders and give up.

Got it.

 

[DavidSSS]

There's way to many ongoing conflicts within the various Arabic / African nations to even contemplate who's punching on with who or even why.

I'll pull you up on this one - why are you singling out Africa and the Middle East? In terms of Africa - 2 wars between states since independence of most of the countries, hardly a hotbed of conflict.

The Middle East problems are a lot to do with colonisation and meddling by the west, not least allowing Israel to be established on a land with people.

Geez, the USA would have been involved in more wars than all the Middle East and African countries put together over the last 50-70 years.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

The Irish are off on extended smoko for the moment, but don't worry there's still a heap of distrust between the antagonists around the U.K.

Old mate Putinontheritz simply rolls from one punch on to the next he simply wants to steal back everything that the Russian empire gave back after they originally stole it all in the first place. Georgia, Chechnya, Belarus?? Ukraine, wherever else he can move his troops n puppet regimes into.

Wasn't all that long ago that there was some punch ons between Bosnians n Serbs n there's also long historical angst with Croatia in that region as well.

Then we have the ongoing argy, distrust n threats between North and South Korea.

Grandpa Xi has also decided he wants Honkers n Taiwan back under communist China's total control n he's gunna squeeze until he gets them.

Sri Lanka was going off a few years back and now that's settled down Myanmar has decided to arc up n do some cleansing of it's own.

Russia n America's recent involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq. Egypt, Israel. Lets not forget that there's also been a couple of insane rumbles pretty much involving the whole world in just over the last hundred years, hell why not chuck in the Korean and Vietnam wars n the old Cuban missiles Mexican stand off.

There's way to many ongoing conflicts within the various Arabic / African nations to even contemplate who's punching on with who or even why.

These rumbles might not individually run non stop for the entirety of history, they're simply on a high rotation of rinse and repeat.

I thought I might block your driveway as a protest against all these wars, I am an activist after all.
Can you send me your address ?

 

[DavidSSS]

I thought I might block your driveway as a protest against all these wars, I am an activist after all.
Can you send me your address ?

If you get his address I reckon we just bulldoze the house and claim it for ourselves, seems to be ok for Israel to do this and the original occupants are expected to just cop it.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

If you get his address I reckon we just bulldoze the house and claim it for ourselves, seems to be ok for Israel to do this and the original occupants are expected to just cop it.

DS

*smile* happens

 

[AngryAnt]

Exactly - if he complains just say it's been going on for thousands of years and there's no point lifting a finger to stop it.

 

[K3]

Holy cow... Even Piers Morgan is now holding a position that is, at the least, critical of Netanyahu and the Israeli government, if not going a bit further.

It would appear that some people can be shown facts and, as such, have a change of heart and position.

Huh........

 

[Sintiger]

Holy cow... Even Piers Morgan is now holding a position that is, at the least, critical of Netanyahu and the Israeli government, if not going a bit further.

It would appear that some people can be shown facts and, as such, have a change of heart and position.

Huh........

Don't know when it happened but Piers Morgan has been speaking this way for at least the last few months

The argument that is given there about Israel "defeating Hamas" is exactly what many have been saying here, including myself. If Israel wants to defeat Hamas they are going about it the wrong way

 

[Willo]

Don't know when it happened but Piers Morgan has been speaking this way for at least the last few months

The argument that is given there about Israel "defeating Hamas" is exactly what many have been saying here, including myself. If Israel wants to defeat Hamas they are going about it the wrong way

How do they do it then? On a permanent a basis?

 

[Sintiger]

How do they do it then? On a permanent a basis?

I have said many times that the only way to destroy groups like that is by taking away the reason they exist. It's like what was said in the clip, treat Hamas as the reason and you won't succeed, you have to treat them as the symptom

Peace is the only way. ( btw I am not saying it is easy)

The provisional IRA is the perfect example

 

[mrposhman]

I have said many times that the only way to destroy groups like that is by taking away the reason they exist. It's like what was said in the clip, treat Hamas as the reason and you won't succeed, you have to treat them as the symptom

Peace is the only way. ( btw I am not saying it is easy)

The provisional IRA is the perfect example

I agree and Israel have pissed away the perfect way to get rid of Hamas and that was the West Bank. If they proved that they could work with the PLO and develop the lives of Palestinians in the West Bank, then their focus is on showing Palestinians in Gaza that there is a different way, ie. not the Hamas path.

BUT Israel don't see that opportunity, just the opportunity for army sanctioned removal of Palestinians from their homes, and replacement with Israelis.

 

[Sintiger]

I agree and Israel have pissed away the perfect way to get rid of Hamas and that was the West Bank. If they proved that they could work with the PLO and develop the lives of Palestinians in the West Bank, then their focus is on showing Palestinians in Gaza that there is a different way, ie. not the Hamas path.

BUT Israel don't see that opportunity, just the opportunity for army sanctioned removal of Palestinians from their homes, and replacement with Israelis.

I absolutely agree with all that but unfortunately the PLO has also hurt themselves by not dealing with the corruption within their midst and in the public sector in the west bank. One of the reasons why the Palestinian authority is unpopular is because of that corruption.

It has also given the Israelis an excuse to not deal with them. (The irony of course is that Netanyahu has been strongly implicated in corruption himself)

 

[MD Jazz]

How do they do it then? On a permanent a basis?

Did you listen to the clip?

I agreeMehdi Hasan's stance that Hamas is just a symptom. You don't solve the problem by trying to destroy Hamas. You can't. There will simply be another group to replace it. And the Israeli actions are creating more potential new members of ................... (insert whatever name you want to give this oppsition) with their actions.

Or you could agree with the Sam Harris line, that you are fighting an enemy that believes so strongly in their ideology that they will not negotiate, they do not sumbit to rules of engagement, that has no empathy and has the single goal to obliterate all Israeli's. So you need to do everything possible to destroy them. That civilian casualties are justifiable in those circumstances.

It's bloody sad.

 

[K3]

Did you listen to the clip?

I agreeMehdi Hasan's stance that Hamas is just a symptom. You don't solve the problem by trying to destroy Hamas. You can't. There will simply be another group to replace it. And the Israeli actions are creating more potential new members of ................... (insert whatever name you want to give this oppsition) with their actions.

Or you could agree with the Sam Harris line, that you are fighting an enemy that believes so strongly in their ideology that they will not negotiate, they do not sumbit to rules of engagement, that has no empathy and has the single goal to obliterate all Israeli's. So you need to do everything possible to destroy them. That civilian casualties are justifiable in those circumstances.

It's bloody sad.

And yet we still have so many people who just don't give a stuff! Over 10,000 ***children*** murdered. Children having to have limbs cut off ***without anaesthetic*** almost daily, but people still wonk on about how it is fine for Israel to "defend themselves". This, also, while they initiate murders in other sovereign countries ***not being attacked***.

Just unreal.

 

[Willo]

Did you listen to the clip?

I agreeMehdi Hasan's stance that Hamas is just a symptom. You don't solve the problem by trying to destroy Hamas. You can't. There will simply be another group to replace it. And the Israeli actions are creating more potential new members of ................... (insert whatever name you want to give this oppsition) with their actions.

Or you could agree with the Sam Harris line, that you are fighting an enemy that believes so strongly in their ideology that they will not negotiate, they do not sumbit to rules of engagement, that has no empathy and has the single goal to obliterate all Israeli's. So you need to do everything possible to destroy them. That civilian casualties are justifiable in those circumstances.

It's bloody sad.

Er yes.
What was his solution? I didn’t hear it. Did you?
Not his speech. The solution.

 

[Willo]

And yet we still have so many people who just don't give a stuff! Over 10,000 ***children*** murdered. Children having to have limbs cut off ***without anaesthetic*** almost daily, but people still wonk on about how it is fine for Israel to "defend themselves". This, also, while they initiate murders in other sovereign countries ***not being attacked***.

Just unreal.

Name one person who has said they don’t give a stuff about the children. Name one…
No one on here has, every post I’ve read and seen has said it’s abhorrent, it’s a tragedy what has and is happening to the innocent civilians. Civilians ! That includes children, women and men.

 

[K3]

Name one person who has said they don’t give a stuff about the children. Name one…
No one on here has, every post I’ve read and seen has said it’s abhorrent, it’s a tragedy what has and is happening to the innocent civilians. Civilians ! That includes children, women and men.

If people are for what Israel is doing, (Bombing hospitals. Bombing schools. Bombing mosques. Bombing refugee camps) then they do not care about the children.

It's not that hard to work out.

Not engaging with you resumed, so please don't address me, I have no interest in what you have to say. And before anyone says it... I wasn't specifically addressing you with my post, see the sentence "so many people...".