Palestine and Israel

[DavidSSS]

Pretty simple TM, 1948 was when a state was established which excluded the Palestinians and gave Jewish people a right to return to a land many had never been anywhere near.

We all know about the anti-semitism but most of that was in Europe where the Nazis took it to the point of trying to exterminate a whole people.

The biggest problem really is that in 1948 a country was established where people were already living (and had been there for at the very least 100s of years). The people there were chucked out - this is not a recipe for peace. What should have happened if they were going to create a safe space for Jewish people where Palestine was and Israel currently is, would have been to create a country where both could live, possibly with UN supervision.

What was created instead was an exclusionary state, a very large refugee problem and a hell of a lot of animosity on both sides.

As I posted quite a while ago, the proposal for 2 states existing as a confederation with the hope that one day they could become 1 state is a solution with some merit. The first step, in an article I think I linked earlier, would be to declare a Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders and bring in an international force to enforce the borders. The Israelis who decide to stay on the Palestinian side of the border would become subject to the Palestinian state, or they could move back within Israel's borders.

The current situation where Israel occupies Gaza and the West Bank, controls what happens in both territories, with the longer term goal of slowly taking over bits of land and expanding Israel until it matches Netanyahu's map at the UN; it just isn't working. Israel's strategy has been to kick the can down the road for as long as it can while it takes land a bit at a time and tries to make life as hard as possible for the Palestinians in the hope they will leave.

Again I will ask: what should the Palestinians do?

DS

 

[TigerMasochist]

Pretty simple TM, 1948 was when a state was established which excluded the Palestinians and gave Jewish people a right to return to a land many had never been anywhere near.

We all know about the anti-semitism but most of that was in Europe where the Nazis took it to the point of trying to exterminate a whole people.

The biggest problem really is that in 1948 a country was established where people were already living (and had been there for at the very least 100s of years). The people there were chucked out - this is not a recipe for peace. What should have happened if they were going to create a safe space for Jewish people where Palestine was and Israel currently is, would have been to create a country where both could live, possibly with UN supervision.

What was created instead was an exclusionary state, a very large refugee problem and a hell of a lot of animosity on both sides.

As I posted quite a while ago, the proposal for 2 states existing as a confederation with the hope that one day they could become 1 state is a solution with some merit. The first step, in an article I think I linked earlier, would be to declare a Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders and bring in an international force to enforce the borders. The Israelis who decide to stay on the Palestinian side of the border would become subject to the Palestinian state, or they could move back within Israel's borders.

The current situation where Israel occupies Gaza and the West Bank, controls what happens in both territories, with the longer term goal of slowly taking over bits of land and expanding Israel until it matches Netanyahu's map at the UN; it just isn't working. Israel's strategy has been to kick the can down the road for as long as it can while it takes land a bit at a time and tries to make life as hard as possible for the Palestinians in the hope they will leave.

Again I will ask: what should the Palestinians do?

DS

So 48 is simply a year where some legal beagles signed some paper work to set some parameters for who owned what regardless of a couple of thousand years of prior history.
So called anti semitism is nothing more than a pretty way of saying anti Jewish, dunno by who or why the term semitic was somehow warped to be pertaining only to Jews but that whole area was originally defined as being semitic.

Two state solution where everyone suddenly draws up new boundaries, shifts house and become bestie neighbours is never gunna happen. They been learning distrust, hatred, righteous revenge n martyrdom for thousands of years.

Not much the Palestinians can do except cop the serious beating they're getting at the moment. They can't run away n hide because none of the neighbours wants them and their Hamas mob has way overstepped the traditional boundary of niggling and sniping, enraging the Israelis who've rolled out into full scale brawl mode.
Got me a feeling that Hamas might have been expecting far more support n interference from some of the other Arabic nations rather than just a minor upscaling by Hezbollah n the Houthis.

 

[AngryAnt]

Always good to get TM's historical takes. These follow the same format as his analysis of politics and science, as follows: "things are *smile* and have always been *smile* so there's no point doing anything whatsoever about anything".

TM finds that any issue, no matter how complex, can always be reduced to this simple and practical formula.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Always good to get TM's historical takes. These follow the same format as his analysis of politics and science, as follows: "things are *smile* and have always been *smile* so there's no point doing anything whatsoever about anything".

TM finds that any issue, no matter how complex, can always be reduced to this simple and practical formula.

So far been proven to be 100% right every time n sure the *smile* beats constant hand wringing, bleating n pretending you're saving the world from itself.

 

[AngryAnt]

The most amusing one I can remember was when you claimed that Muslims and Jews had been warring for thousands of years even though Islam has only existed for 1400 or so.

Of course this just a minor historical detail, unimportant to those who have the entire course of human history already mapped out in their heads.

 

[Sintiger]

So 48 is simply a year where some legal beagles signed some paper work to set some parameters for who owned what regardless of a couple of thousand years of prior history.

Bit like the federation of Australia

 

[Sintiger]

So far been proven to be 100% right every time n sure the *smile* beats constant hand wringing, bleating n pretending you're saving the world from itself.

Haven't seen anyone pretending they're saving the world TM, seen plenty of people offering opinions and views however.

Things can change in this world through public opinion and activism, they certainly don't change by shrugging the shoulders.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Haven't seen anyone pretending they're saving the world TM, seen plenty of people offering opinions and views however.

Things can change in this world through public opinion and activism, they certainly don't change by shrugging the shoulders.

So were you one of the ones that parked the truck on the west gate, perhaps you had a nap in the bourke st mall the other day, or been blockading large sections of society that simply want to get on with their existence as best they can. But you feel some desperate need to *smile* up somebody else's day howling about how badly humans are behaving somewhere else.

 

[Sintiger]

So were you one of the ones that parked the truck on the west gate, perhaps you had a nap in the bourke st mall the other day, or been blockading large sections of society that simply want to get on with their existence as best they can. But you feel some desperate need to *smile* up somebody else's day howling about how badly humans are behaving somewhere else.

What a ridiculous post.

You think that is activism?

 

[TigerMasochist]

The most amusing one I can remember was when you claimed that Muslims and Jews had been warring for thousands of years even though Islam has only existed for 1400 or so.

Of course this just a minor historical detail, unimportant to those who have the entire course of human history already mapped out in their heads.

Oooh did I get that technical glitch happening there Antsy one? How about if I'd used the term semitic people instead. Regardless of their faith, whether that be Judaism, Islam, Idolatry they've been hating n beating on one another for a couple of thousand years.

 

[TigerMasochist]

What a ridiculous post.

You think that is activism?

Pretty sure that's what all them prancing, chanting annoying pricks claim themselves to be. Meedjia n plods n govt also constantly attributes that term to all those mobs as well. They nearly all look pretty active marching here there n everywhere shouting and yelling n waving there little home made placards, guess at least there's a few people getting some exercise while they're buggering up people's days and wasting tax payer money on crap.

 

[AngryAnt]

Oooh did I get that technical glitch happening there Antsy one? How about if I'd used the term semitic people instead. Regardless of their faith, whether that be Judaism, Islam, Idolatry they've been hating n beating on one another for a couple of thousand years.

Bit like the Europeans eh TM? To say that periodically every region has conflict is a fatuous truism. Conflicts happen but they rarely happen continuously in one geographic region for all of history, and to claim they do is just ahistorical dumbassery.

When I look at history I see that there are often choices made that make things either better or worse. We have peace in Northern Ireland, we've largely had peace in Europe until Vlad went nutso recently. Peace and stability takes effort and people actually trying rather than just shrugging your shoulders and whining "things have always been this way, so why bother"?

 

[tigersnake]

So were you one of the ones that parked the truck on the west gate, perhaps you had a nap in the bourke st mall the other day, or been blockading large sections of society that simply want to get on with their existence as best they can. But you feel some desperate need to *smile* up somebody else's day howling about how badly humans are behaving somewhere else.

What a sook. Without activism, nothing changes. 8 hour day, equal rights for women, environmental protection, you name it.

You want no activism? Or only activism that you agree with? Or only nice activism that never disturbs anyone or attracts any attention?

 

[eZyT]

So were you one of the ones that parked the truck on the west gate, perhaps you had a nap in the bourke st mall the other day, or been blockading large sections of society that simply want to get on with their existence as best they can. But you feel some desperate need to *smile* up somebody else's day howling about how badly humans are behaving somewhere else.

my brain hurts,

when I think how people who lose their *smile* when someone protests against avoidable ammegedon on a bridge and they are 30 mins late for a pedicure,

are gonna cope when cyclones and droughts and fires and famines and plagues and resource wars and civil breakdown hit?

are they gonna go on Facebook and go

'hey!, woke trans commy fentynol zombie just hacked my arms off with a shovel and moved into my house! why wont they just let me get on with living?'

 

[K3]

What a sook. Without activism, nothing changes. 8 hour day, equal rights for women, environmental protection, you name it.

You want no activism? Or only activism that you agree with? Or only nice activism that never disturbs anyone or attracts any attention?

BOOM!

 

[Sintiger]

Pretty sure that's what all them prancing, chanting annoying pricks claim themselves to be. Meedjia n plods n govt also constantly attributes that term to all those mobs as well. They nearly all look pretty active marching here there n everywhere shouting and yelling n waving there little home made placards, guess at least there's a few people getting some exercise while they're buggering up people's days and wasting tax payer money on crap.

you can’t possibly be serious with this post.

 

[Willo]

What I said in a previous post was that we needed statesmen ( I apologise for the masculine but they were all men).

When there are disputes such as this what it needs is at least one side and probably both to say “whatever happens we will do a deal”. That’s what happened in the end with the troubles in Northern Ireland. The provisional IRA laid down their weapons, the loyalists who said they would never negotiate with terrorists sat down with Sinn Fein. There were cracks because taking a stance like that is not always popular. Statesmen

This was probably possible in the 1980s and 1990s with people like Perez and Rabin in Israel. Arafat compromised enormously just to be at the table, the PLOs acceptance of Israel’s right to exist was no small step. It was essentially forgoing the premise of its existence.

Not possible now, or at least not for many years, and even then only after a sustained period of peace which seems a million miles away.

I certainly agree

 

[TigerMasochist]

my brain hurts,

when I think how people who lose their *smile* when someone protests against avoidable ammegedon on a bridge and they are 30 mins late for a pedicure,

are gonna cope when cyclones and droughts and fires and famines and plagues and resource wars and civil breakdown hit?

are they gonna go on Facebook and go

'hey!, woke trans commy fentynol zombie just hacked my arms off with a shovel and moved into my house! why wont they just let me get on with living?'

The sooner the better as far as humanity is concerned. Been *smile* up the planet ever since we was invented n as proven over the entirety of history every time some smart arse rocket scientist inventor or creator comes up with a magnificent fancy new way to make the whole world a you beaut much better place to be. There's the inevitable shock horror kick in the nuts unforeseen world destroying nightmare some 30 to 50 years further down the track.
We're just slowly rotating in ever decreasing circles n one day the inevitable will occur.

 

[eZyT]

The sooner the better as far as humanity is concerned. Been *smile* up the planet ever since we was invented n as proven over the entirety of history every time some smart arse rocket scientist inventor or creator comes up with a magnificent fancy new way to make the whole world a you beaut much better place to be. There's the inevitable shock horror kick in the nuts unforeseen world destroying nightmare some 30 to 50 years further down the track.
We're just slowly rotating in ever decreasing circles n one day the inevitable will occur.

So why get hot under the collar about a bit of civil disobedience,

With your nihilistic belief system,

Shouldnt you be tooting and giving protesters a thumbs up at worst?

At best, welding yourself into a ball and rolling onto The G and holding up the footy with

'Youse are all *smile* so go and get *smile*'

Sign?

 

[tigersnake]

So why get hot under the collar about a bit of civil disobedience,

With your nihilistic belief system,

Shouldnt you be tooting and giving protesters a thumbs up at worst?

At best, welding yourself into a ball and rolling onto The G and holding up the footy with

'Youse are all *smile* so go and get *smile*'

Sign?

I'd like to see that. I'd support it. As long as it wasn't a Richmond game that we were winning.