Palestine and Israel

[Sintiger]

Nico, I recently watched a podcast hosted by Ali Rizvi (a well known ex muslim but strong practicing cultural muslim ) and a Palestinian woman who was desperately trying to get her family out at least into Egypt who have bumped up the border crossing price from pre-war $400 per person to $10,000. She started a 'go fund me' page. I'm sure a lot of pr-enders including myself would be only too willing to contribute what they can.

There are a number of these. I have supported a page for a family of 6 to get to Canada about 3 weeks ago at a cost of C$60,000 ( total cost not what I put in).
This family is desperate because Israel considers them Hamas which is ridiculous, they are a family of humanitarian aid workers who dealt with the Gazan government as all aid organisations had to because Hamas was the government.
They have had family killed and also have a family member in jail without trial in Israel.

As far as UNRWA is concerned there are 30,000 people who work for UNRWA. There are 12 people who are the subject of these allegations. If they are proved to be involved then deal with them which is what UNRWA has said. Draw your own conclusions but UNRWA was set up after the NAQBA in 1949 to deal with aid to the Palestinian refugees and has operated since not just in Gaza. They support the millions of Palestinians registered and recognised by the UN as refugees. Their existence is part of a statement that Palestinians are refugees. So as I said, draw your own conclusions as to why Israel wants it gone.

I will withdraw for discussion again but wanted to add this.

 

[Willo]

Jordan Is Palestinian

Thus far the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan has weathered the storm that has swept across the Middle East since the beginning of the year. But the relative calm in Amman is an illusion. The unspoken truth is that the Palestinians, the country's largest

www.meforum.org

Mudar Zahran is a Jordanian-Palestinian writer who resides in the United Kingdom as a political refugee. He served as an economic specialist and assistant to the policy coordinator at the U.S. Embassy in Amman before moving to the U.K. in 2010.

You do understand that the allegations (still not proved) made by Mark Regev, an adviser to Netanyahu were made hours after the ICJ announcement, which among other things, the ICJ said they would continue investigating genocide by Israel?

Classic diversion tactics. Look over there everyone, there's nothing to see here!

You do understand that the allegations (still not proved) made by Mark Regev, an adviser to Netanyahu were made hours after the ICJ announcement, which among other things, the ICJ said they would continue investigating genocide by Israel?

Classic diversion tactics. Look over there everyone, there's nothing to see here!

UNRWA and Hamas. Thats why it’s being investigated

I don’t know what the ICJ hearing has to do with my post that you quoted. Unless you just wanted to get it noticed again.

I disagree it a classic diversion tactic. Anyone can see what’s happening on tv, news outlets etc

If people cant see that with over 13,000 UNRWA Palestinian Aid workers in Gaza alone, there would be some bad people there, you must be naive at the very least. Or deliberately looking the other way.

An accusation or allegation that some UNRWA were members of Hamas aught to be investigated fully.
The US, EU. countries, Australia and many other countries that donate $millions in Aid have designated Hamas a terrorist group. Of course they want to ensure a terrorist group has no part . That’s just common sense.

But once again it’s the innocent who pay the price and suffer.Hamas doesn’t give a damn about their own people. If they did, they could free the hostages and do a deal to depart and slink off to Qatar with the rest of the Hamas leadership. But they won’t, the more casualties the better for their propaganda machine.

Hamas is in control of UNRWA aid group in Gaza, Palestinian man says: recording

A Palestinian man living in Gaza told the Israeli Defence Forces that Hamas has direct control over the Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian refugees in the Near East, known as UNRWA.

nypost.com

This allegation was made that a Hamas was appropriating AID meant for the Gazans. Article dated 25/12/2023.
But I’m sure it will be discredited because of which media outlet published it. Or as “hearsay”.
There are plenty of videos of Gazans claiming the same.

 

[Willo]

Yep, you've taken the side of a genocidal regime that commits multiple war crimes and breaks international humanitarian law without a second thought.

A regime which as of 2017, has illegally and often with violence, demolished over 50,000 homes owned by Palestinians in the West Bank.

Israel's Occupation: 50 Years of Dispossession

Mass human rights violations during the 50-year occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip have devastated the lives of millions of Palestinians.

www.amnesty.org

Your side has detained 6,420 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank since Oct. 7, including more than 400 children, 215 women and 51 journalists. Over 3290 are held without charge, cannot have legal representation, and can be held indefinitely. ie. kidnapped.

More than 6,400 Palestinians arrested by Israel in West Bank since Oct. 7

Detainees include 215 women, 400 children, 51 journalists, according to prisoners’ affairs groups - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Your side tortures, humiliates and degrades Palestinians. Have a read of this document which is a brief of Israeli torture up to 2008: https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde150402008en.pdf

Yep, you've taken a side alright.

Nice cut a paste effort. Yes, I’ve read all those articles, as well as many others that portray Israel in a poor light. I can admit that. Unlike others who can’t admit what kicked this off. To them Hamas atrocities never happened. It’s all Israel’s fault. Every bit of it. The past, present and future. It’s all their fault. Even when other countries invaded them multiple times over the past 70 plus years. It was Israel’s fault.

As well as others, that show that Hamas, Hezbollah, the IB, the PLO, Fatah, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, and Egypt have done quite a bit with regards to their own atrocities.
Violence begets violence.

As I've stated previously, the death toll of civilians and the innocent is abhorrent, but you’ve chosen to ignore it as usual,

But when I stated others have taken a side as have I, I was referring to the current happenings in Gaza. But you knew that already, seeing as you’ve harped on about it for whatever I post.

There are other people who have family, friends or acquaintances in the middle of all this. Not just the one side either.

 

[mrposhman]

Nice cut a paste effort. Yes, I’ve read all those articles, as well as many others that portray Israel in a poor light. I can admit that. Unlike others who can’t admit what kicked this off. To them Hamas atrocities never happened. It’s all Israel’s fault. Every bit of it. The past, present and future. It’s all their fault. Even when other countries invaded them multiple times over the past 70 plus years. It was Israel’s fault.

As well as others, that show that Hamas, Hezbollah, the IB, the PLO, Fatah, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, and Egypt have done quite a bit with regards to their own atrocities.
Violence begets violence.

As I've stated previously, the death toll of civilians and the innocent is abhorrent, but you’ve chosen to ignore it as usual,

But when I stated others have taken a side as have I, I was referring to the current happenings in Gaza. But you knew that already, seeing as you’ve harped on about it for whatever I post.

There are other people who have family, friends or acquaintances in the middle of all this. Not just the one side either.

No-one has claimed that what Hamas have done was faultless. Clearly they are at faulty for the latest trigger point, but what people disagree with is Israels response.

Are you happy that Israel have engaged with a proportional response?

Whilst most eyes have been on Gaza, take a look at whats happening in the West Bank, no Hamas there right?

Inside the most aggressive West Bank land grab in more than 50 years

Bel Trew visits villages in the occupied West Bank and hears harrowing tales of settler violence in which Palestinian families describe being forced from their homes – in what human rights groups say is the single biggest land grab since Israel captured the region in 1967

www.independent.co.uk

This is essentially state sponsored, as Israels response to the sanctions dished out by the Americans is that "they take all law breaking seriously", right, so they've arrested these individuals that have been sanctioned right? They've addressed the soldiers that have apparently been accompanying settlers in their land grab have they? They've given these lands back I assume?

US sanctions Israeli settlers over West Bank violence

The US president sanctions four Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians.

www.bbc.com

 

[Willo]

No-one has claimed that what Hamas have done was faultless. Clearly they are at faulty for the latest trigger point, but what people disagree with is Israels response.

Are you happy that Israel have engaged with a proportional response?

Already answered that. Many times.

Whilst most eyes have been on Gaza, take a look at whats happening in the West Bank, no Hamas there right?

Inside the most aggressive West Bank land grab in more than 50 years

Bel Trew visits villages in the occupied West Bank and hears harrowing tales of settler violence in which Palestinian families describe being forced from their homes – in what human rights groups say is the single biggest land grab since Israel captured the region in 1967

www.independent.co.uk

This is essentially state sponsored, as Israels response to the sanctions dished out by the Americans is that "they take all law breaking seriously", right, so they've arrested these individuals that have been sanctioned right? They've addressed the soldiers that have apparently been accompanying settlers in their land grab have they? They've given these lands back I assume?

US sanctions Israeli settlers over West Bank violence

The US president sanctions four Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians.

www.bbc.com

I haven’t mentioned Hamas in the West Bank have I?
I haven’t ever said people in Israel or the government has carte blanche to do whatever it likes have I?

There are many Israelis who are appalled at the death and instruction in Gaza. As there are many “hawks” who want revenge. There are people in all walks of life that don’t agree with their governing bodies decisions. That happens the world over.

So don’t assume too much, especially when you already know the answer and are trying to imply I agree with each and every policy, official and non official, that the Israeli government make.

If you want to bring up “state sanctioned”. As others have said, Hamas is the ruling body in Gaza.
(Not that there have been any elections there for nearly 20 years, they're no more that a despotic regime)
Or is it that Hamas (and other terrorise groups) do the bidding of Iran, is that “state sanctioned”?

It would have been far easier to ask me if I agreed with the West Bank evictions and beatings.
For the record…NO I don’t.


I‘m sure I’ll get asked that countless times. Some people’s “righteous indignation” obviously affects their reading or comprehension skills

 

[K3]

Pathetic of the Aust Govt to halt funding without a proper investigation.

Just doing what we're told by our masters...

 

[K3]

 

[Nico]

Nice cut a paste effort. Yes, I’ve read all those articles, as well as many others that portray Israel in a poor light. I can admit that. Unlike others who can’t admit what kicked this off. To them Hamas atrocities never happened. It’s all Israel’s fault. Every bit of it. The past, present and future. It’s all their fault. Even when other countries invaded them multiple times over the past 70 plus years. It was Israel’s fault.

As well as others, that show that Hamas, Hezbollah, the IB, the PLO, Fatah, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, and Egypt have done quite a bit with regards to their own atrocities.
Violence begets violence.

As I've stated previously, the death toll of civilians and the innocent is abhorrent, but you’ve chosen to ignore it as usual,

But when I stated others have taken a side as have I, I was referring to the current happenings in Gaza. But you knew that already, seeing as you’ve harped on about it for whatever I post.

There are other people who have family, friends or acquaintances in the middle of all this. Not just the one side either.

Your a champion of whataboutism. As you know, I'm talking about Israeli atrocities, nothing to do with Jordan, Egypt etc.

You can't stick to the topic? FFS, Sintiger was discussing the dispossession of Palestinians with you and you go but what about the Sursock Purchases?? Completely irrelevant to the dispossession of the Palestinians over the last 5 decades or so. No wonder he pulled the plug on you.

Israel is an extreme, right-wing state. Netanyahu makes Peter Dutton look like a pot-smoking, hippy, greenie. Any state which drops 2000 lb bombs on a refugee camp is extremist. This is undeniable. Your views are extremist, and I'm not going to engage with you anymore.

By the way, I'm part Jewish, I do business with companies in Israel, have many Jewish friends and neighbours, and I also have a friend stuck in the largest outdoor prison in the world called Gaza. So I can certainly see both sides. How about you? Want to come to the Pro-Palestine protest next Sunday with me and have a chat to some Palestinians there about their experiences?

Wishing you the best and Go Tiges!

 

[Nico]

This is what you've been banging on about @DavidSSS

 

[Nico]

Great article, and I totally agree.

As Jews, we don’t accept that criticism of Israel’s government is antisemitic

The word “antisemitism” is being exploited by the pro-Israel lobby to silence criticism of the Israeli government’s bombing of civilians in Gaza.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Willo]

Your a champion of whataboutism. As you know, I'm talking about Israeli atrocities, nothing to do with Jordan, Egypt etc.

You can't stick to the topic? FFS, Sintiger was discussing the dispossession of Palestinians with you and go but what about the Sursock Purchases?? Completely irrelevant to the dispossession of the Palestinians over the last 5 decades or so. No wonder he pulled the plug on you.

Israel is an extreme, right-wing state. Netanyahu makes Peter Dutton look like a pot-smoking, hippy, greenie. Any state which drops 2000 lb bombs on a refugee camp is extremist. This is undeniable. Your views are extremist, and I'm not going to engage with you anymore.

By the way, I'm part Jewish, I do business with companies in Israel, have many Jewish friends and neighbours, and I also have a friend stuck in the largest outdoor prison in the world called Gaza. So I can certainly see both sides. How about you? Want to come to the Pro-Palestine protest next Sunday with me and have a chat to some Palestinians there about their experiences?

Wishing you the best and Go Tiges!

Whataboutism, really? I never mentioned it in the post you quoted.
Yes you mentioned Israeli atrocities, I mentioned Jordan and Egypt because those atrocities because they get pushed “under the rug” .
It seems other, countries and/or groups can commit atrocities they aren’t worth mentioning. It seems only Israeli atrocities get any airplay .

And before you head off on another tangent, I have stated that atrocities anywhere ARE atrocities. Whether by Muslim, Christian, Jew or whoever.
But as usual you ignore that and cherry pick bits and pieces that suit your narrative

I can’t stick with the topic? Well when someone suggests all the land was “stolen” by l, which is in fact false. It’s why I brought up Land Purchases, including the Sursok Purchase to prove it was incorrect.

Another thing, when the League of Nations handed control of the Palestine Mandate to Britain. Jordan/Trans Jordan didn’t exist. Not until Winston Churchill handed over 80% of the Mandate to Abdullah? the he made himself the King of Trans/Jordan .
80% of “Palestinain” land. Where’s the outcry over that….*crickets.

Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When Egypt actually occupied Gaza for nearly 20 years in the ‘50’s and 60’s where was the hullabaloo about”Occupation” and “stolen land”

Occupation of the Gaza Strip by the United Arab Republic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Until they lost Gaza when they invaded Israel. Probably happy to hand it over.

When Jordan annexed the West Bank, where was the outcry ?

Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

King Hussein departed because he didn’t want to deal with more Palestinians than he already had in Jordan. Made them 2nd class citizens, taxed the *smile* out of them, refused representation etc etc.


My views are “exremist and you’re not going to engage anymore”? Really, so you type your response and take off.
I do feel sorry not only for your friend, but to all the other innocent people that have suffered death and injuries to loved ones -dispossession of homes. et Al
But not for for Hamas.
No doubt the current Israeli government is right wing. Ultra right wing actually. I wonder why that is?
Do I agree with all their policies and actions. No, this I have already answered.
Do I believe Israel has a right to exist. Definitely yes.
Do I believe Palestinians have a right to exist? Definitey. The West Bank and Jordan.


Why would I want to go to a Pro- Palestinian protest? Unless it’s to protest that they haven’t t been allowed to have a democratic election in near 20 years
It would be like a die hard Richmond supporter going to a Collingwood membership day..

I wish you all the best.The same to your family and friends. In whatever location they are.
And “go tigers” to you too Nico

 

[Willo]

 

[Willo]

This clip is over 2 years old, but this perceptive Palestinian calls it correctly

 

[DavidSSS]

This is what you've been banging on about @DavidSSS

I'll have a look later, thanks for posting.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

135,000 buildings in Gaza either damaged or destroyed. 61% of all structures in the whole of Gaza

 

[K3]

 

[Willo]

Posted 2 years prior to October 7

 

[Willo]

Easily fixed. disband UNRWA and put all aid under the jurisdiction of the UNHCR and ensure it gets where it’s supposed to.

Several UN Agency Staff Fired for Alleged Ties to October 7 Attack on Israel

UNRWA says Israeli authorities provided them with information on the staffers’ participation

www.voanews.com

UNRWA cannot operate without Hamas – no wonder it has a neutrality problem

Analysis: The UN agency has been forced to work cheek by jowl with Hamas since it came to power in Gaza

www.telegraph.co.uk

So they were sacked for no reason?

 

[Willo]

Common sense would tell you that out of 13,000 UNRWA workers in Gaza, some international aid workers, but the majority being Gazan Palestinians there would be quite a few who have some affiliation with Hamas
Hamas controlled all of Gaza. Do you actually think they wouldn’t have any control over which of their population works at the UNRWA Which has a budget of over $1.2 billion.
No doubt there are plenty of gullible people in the world, but that just defies any logic.

 

[Willo]

135,000 buildings in Gaza either damaged or destroyed. 61% of all structures in the whole of Gaza

Bloody terrible.
To stop it, Hamas surrenders and hands over the hostages.

But obviously they don’t care what happens to their own people.
*edit*