I wasn't going to post it mate, but I thought it encapsulated the situation in one, as you said, horrifying moment.
In 2024 we should be better than this!
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Palestine and Israel
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In 2024 we should be better than this!
Another RWNJ who thinks time started on October 7th. Anything happen before then that might have caused the Palestinians some angst?
Disremembering (is that even a word?) Hamas atrocities. I condemn Hamas atrocities absolutely, as does everyone on this thread.
Do you condemn Israeli atrocities?
Thanks for being so condescending, I did watch it to the end.
They feel like the leadership of Hamas abandoned them, they believe what they did precipitated the destruction of Gaza that is occurring, they believe that Islam forbids what they did.
I agree with them but why does Hamas exist in the first place? The answer to that is the systematic dispossession and persecution of the Palestinian people by the state of Israel. Why did they do it ? Because they were told they would get a flat, somewhere to live. That’s what a lack of hope does to people, it dehumanises them. That’s not justifying it, that’s trying to understand it.
Not one person on this thread has defended those actions and I have said on more than one occasion that the attack by Hamas was very bad for the Palestinian people.
I am very much of the view that if Israel truly wants peace then destroying Gaza is not the way to do it. Hamas can only be defeated by taking away their reason for existence. However at least the current government of Israel does not want peace, they want the land. This conflict did not start on October 7, 2023 it has been going for 75 years
I know a number of Jewish people and I have been surprised at the number of them who are very anti this government and the actions they are taking. Maybe that is the circles I mix with, people who have a humanitarian background, including some who are Israelis who won’t or can’t go back because of their views.
Are you referring to land purchased in secret a few years ago by the Jewish National Fund ?
You're a clever little boy Nico, aren't you? Labelling someone who has a different opinion to you a nut job and knowing how I think time started on Oct 7.
angst? Murdering Over 1200 people in one instance. Murdering women, children, burning them, beheading. Do you think that lends itself to some angst. To go along with suicide bombers, rockets, mortars fired on innocent civilians. Is that some angst. Only if it’s Israelis.
Disremember..yes it’s a word, look it up. Education is ongoing.
I‘I’ve already stated numerous times that I don’t condone any atrocities anywhere. But that doesn’t suit the pro Palestinian narrative on here
Is there some distinction between “privately“ owned land and “state” owned land?
A few years ago? No, starting over 140 years ago, purchased from absentee Egyptian and Syrian landlords.
Not too many Palestinians owned the land they worked. They worked it as fiefs to the upper class.
Most of the land purchased was uninhabited and not considered fertile. But surely you know this. If not, do some research.
Palestinians didn’t own all the land that you and the pro Palestinian brigade belive they “stole”. But that doesn’t suit the narrative does it.
Who cares who paid for it, the money was accepted willingly enough.
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Labelling? Like calling K3 Muhammad because he disagrees with Israeli Government policies?? (Removed by mods on Monday)
Once again, you're not looking at anything prior to October 7th. Why don't you concede Israel have done some terrible things leading up to Oct 7th? You are a nut job if you don't take into account Israeli atrocities prior (and after) Oct 7th.
I'll ask you again, do you condemn Israeli atrocities? Yes or No
Egyptian and Syrian landlords lol.
If you are talking about the purchase of land by Jews and Jewish companies during Ottoman Palestine and then British Palestine I am aware of it but my understanding is that it was only about 5% of Palestine and yes the new owners just evicted the tenants.
Jews lived in Palestine prior to the NAQBA, something that has been mentioned on this thread multiple times. They lived in relative peace side by side with the Arab Palestinians. Those Palestinians welcomed shiploads of Jewish refugees from Europe post war.
I am not sure what you are suggesting? That every Palestinian evicted from their homes by Jewish settlers was living on Jewish owned land?
You are getting more and more condescending.
If you are talking about the purchase of land by Jews and Jewish companies during Ottoman Palestine and then British Palestine I am aware of it but my understanding is that it was only about 5% of Palestine and yes the new owners just evicted the tenants.
Jews lived in Palestine prior to the NAQBA, something that has been mentioned on this thread multiple times. They lived in relative peace side by side with the Arab Palestinians. Those Palestinians welcomed shiploads of Jewish refugees from Europe post war.
I am not sure what you are suggesting? That every Palestinian evicted from their homes by Jewish settlers was living on Jewish owned land?
Yes, Egyptian and Syrian landlords. And Lebanese.
Excerpt*
By the end of the Ottoman State in 1918, the Jews had acquired about 420 thousand dunams (or 1.5%) of the land of Palestine, which they bought mainly from Lebanese feudal landlords, most notably the families of Sursock, Tayyan, Tueni and Medawar, or from the Ottoman administration through public auction in which the lands of Palestinian peasants who are unable to pay their taxes are sold, or from some Palestinian landlords who belong to feudal families like the Ruk and Kassar families. These purchases covered 93% of the land the Jews acquired. In any case, the Zionist threat was not considered serious by the people of Palestine at that time, due to the small size of the Jewish settlement and population, and that the establishment of a Zionist entity under a Muslim state (the Ottoman State) was practically impossible. [4]
Sursock Purchases - Wikipedia
( was editing the above post when your response was posted)
Apologies if I came across as condescending to you, but when you get some replies and questions to posts of such a condescending nature and some puerile name calling and responses (not you btw) I tend to answer in the same manner.
When it all becomes one sided and no one can give an opposing view it usually goes downhill. Some people have a tendency to go with the majority. I don’t. I will say what I believe and (usually) supply facts to back it up. Sometimes I couldn’t be bothered as it changes nothing.
You have your views and opinions as do quite a few others. As I do.
You won’t convince me otherwise, nor will I convince you. But I respect your pov and opinions even though I might not always agree with them. Sometimes one can learn things as well.
Some other posters just like to jump onboard and yip, yip, yip away. They’re like afl umpires, no idea and all noise
Yes the sursock purchases.
I am withdrawing Willo which I have done once before on this thread.
I am too close to this issue. Enough said
I am withdrawing Willo which I have done once before on this thread.
I am too close to this issue. Enough said
It’s a bit double Dutch for me to understand. Maybe you should reread your post and make it a bit simpler for me
Yes labelling. I did call K3 Muhummad and it was removed by the mods. Hmm I must have hurt his feelings. I don’t know why, seeing he has a close affinity with the cause. I didn’t know it was offensive. Or maybe some little snitch got offended on his behalf.
Reread post #1566. Bottom line. I answered it, but you’re too busy yelling at the clouds. Or maybe you need someone to explain what it means.
Ahh now you tell me what I’m looking at. As well as what I’m thinking. Go to the top of the class.
Really? You call someone a Muslim who is critical of Israeli policy, the mods remove it, and you don't think it's offensive? Wow.
You haven't answered my question, you're dodging it.
Yes or no, do you condemn Israeli atrocities?
The thing about discounting the importance of Oct 7 as it relates to the current state of affairs is that by doing so any real sense of agency is removed from Hamas and the Palestinian civilians who participated in that barbarism as if they are automatons completely powerless to make independent conscious decisions due to some mysterious force of past events.
Anyway, here's Sam Harris' latest and interesting take on events where he identifies 5 myths about Israel and the war in Gaza. He's released it as a public service announcement so no paywall. He believes the myths are:
1. Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
2. International humanitarian law requires that Israel's response to Palestinian aggression be 'proportional.'
3. The Jews are colonisers and the Palestinians are indigenous people
4. The atrocities committed by Hamas and over 1,000 Palestinian civilians on Oct 7 were a legitimate response to oppression
5. Th 2 sides in this conflict are equally civilised, equally entitled to respect and equally worth protecting.
www.samharris.org
Anyway, here's Sam Harris' latest and interesting take on events where he identifies 5 myths about Israel and the war in Gaza. He's released it as a public service announcement so no paywall. He believes the myths are:
1. Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
2. International humanitarian law requires that Israel's response to Palestinian aggression be 'proportional.'
3. The Jews are colonisers and the Palestinians are indigenous people
4. The atrocities committed by Hamas and over 1,000 Palestinian civilians on Oct 7 were a legitimate response to oppression
5. Th 2 sides in this conflict are equally civilised, equally entitled to respect and equally worth protecting.
Sam Harris | #351 - 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza
Join neuroscientist, philosopher, and best-selling author Sam Harris as he explores some of the most pressing and controversial questions of our time.
I'll give it a listen and keep an open mind, but it's only the opinion of one man.The thing about discounting the importance of Oct 7 as it relates to the current state of affairs is that by doing so any real sense of agency is removed from Hamas and the Palestinian civilians who participated in that barbarism as if they are automatons completely powerless to make independent conscious decisions due to some mysterious force of past events.
Anyway, here's Sam Harris' latest and interesting take on events where he identifies 5 myths about Israel and the war in Gaza. He's released it as a public service announcement so no paywall. He believes the myths are:
1. Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
2. International humanitarian law requires that Israel's response to Palestinian aggression be 'proportional.'
3. The Jews are colonisers and the Palestinians are indigenous people
4. The atrocities committed by Hamas and over 1,000 Palestinian civilians on Oct 7 were a legitimate response to oppression
5. Th 2 sides in this conflict are equally civilised, equally entitled to respect and equally worth protecting.
Sam Harris | #351 - 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza
Join neuroscientist, philosopher, and best-selling author Sam Harris as he explores some of the most pressing and controversial questions of our time.
Sam Harris’s Fairy-Tale Account of the Israel-Hamas Conflict
On the question of Palestinian terrorism, the atheist podcaster prefers dogma to rational inquiry.
nymag.com
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