Palestine and Israel | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Palestine and Israel

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Saw on tonight's news where the Israelis stuck a rocket fair up the clacker of some senior Hamas leader smack bang in the middle of Hezbollah's enclave in Beirut.
Might be a fair chance that it's going to seriously *smile* off a lot of already grumpy people. Top that up with Iran sending one of their war ships into the gulf area to annoy the Yanks n there's a good chance that *smile*'s gunna get even messier around there.
 
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Sintiger I have quoted a source so how have I rewriten history? it seems you are expressing your opinion as you discribe the conditions as 'not great'

were as the source I have quoted paints at far bleaker picture "living in extreme poverty in squalid camps. "

If Nasser was so benevolent why did he prevent the resettlment of Palestinians to other Arab countries?
 
yandb said:
Sintiger I have quoted a source so how have I rewriten history? it seems you are expressing your opinion as you discribe the conditions as 'not great'

were as the source I have quoted paints at far bleaker picture "living in extreme poverty in squalid camps. "

If Nasser was so benevolent why did he prevent the resettlment of Palestinians to other Arab countries?
Click to expand...
It’s a source and list facts but misses context.

1. Somewhere between 600,000 and a million Palestinians were displaced by the Naqba and about 20% of them did go to other Arab countries including Egypt. There is a massive Palestinian population in what is now Jordon ( was trans Jordon)
2. I never said Nasser was benevolent so I don’t need to answer that. What I said was that he was seen as an Arab hero by many. He threw out the foreigners from Egypt and was a champion of Arab nationalism. Egypt fought for Palestinian rights against Israel in the 1950s alongside other Arab nations. I’m not saying he was a good bloke, just that he was seen as an Arab nationalist hero by many Arabs
3. Like now part of the reason Arab countries didn’t allow massive number of Palestinians to settle is because that is exactly what Israel wanted (wants now as well). They want to de-arabise Palestine because it is the Jewish promised land. That’s the aim of Zionism.
4. Of course they were living in extreme poverty, they had been thrown out of their homes and were displaced. At that time the difference was that they expected that it would be temporary and they would get their property back because they had the support of the wider Arab world. A false hope of course.
I am not even sure what the point is you are trying to make? The context of those times is totally different to what it is now. The Arab world was coming out of colonisation and whilst that was happening the “west” partitioned an Arab land and allowed the creation of a Jewish state on that land (as they saw it).
Whatever happened then it wasn’t the Arabs who caused the Palestinians to be in Gaza or the West Bank nor is it the Arab world that is conducting the siege of Gaza, the land grab in the West Bank and creating the ghetto of East Jerusalem. All of that is Israel. If you are trying to somehow absolve Israel of that responsibility because of what happened in the 1950s it just doesn’t fly imo.
There is only one solution to this. If Israel wants peace it has to make peace and it has to accept they will live side by side with Palestinians. Of course Palestinians have to accept that as well but the first step has to be stop the settlements and stop the siege of Gaza. The only hope imo is the Israeli peace movement and they have to get rid of Netanyahu.
 
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Sintiger said:
It’s a source and list facts but misses context.

1. Somewhere between 600,000 and a million Palestinians were displaced by the Naqba and about 20% of them did go to other Arab countries including Egypt. There is a massive Palestinian population in what is now Jordon ( was trans Jordon)
2. I never said Nasser was benevolent so I don’t need to answer that. What I said was that he was seen as an Arab hero by many. He threw out the foreigners from Egypt and was a champion of Arab nationalism. Egypt fought for Palestinian rights against Israel in the 1950s alongside other Arab nations. I’m not saying he was a good bloke, just that he was seen as an Arab nationalist hero by many Arabs
3. Like now part of the reason Arab countries didn’t allow massive number of Palestinians to settle is because that is exactly what Israel wanted (wants now as well). They want to de-arabise Palestine because it is the Jewish promised land. That’s the aim of Zionism.
4. Of course they were living in extreme poverty, they had been thrown out of their homes and were displaced. At that time the difference was that they expected that it would be temporary and they would get their property back because they had the support of the wider Arab world. A false hope of course.
I am not even sure what the point is you are trying to make? The context of those times is totally different to what it is now. The Arab world was coming out of colonisation and whilst that was happening the “west” partitioned an Arab land and allowed the creation of a Jewish state on that land (as they saw it).
Whatever happened then it wasn’t the Arabs who caused the Palestinians to be in Gaza or the West Bank nor is it the Arab world that is conducting the siege of Gaza, the land grab in the West Bank and creating the ghetto of East Jerusalem. All of that is Israel. If you are trying to somehow absolve Israel of that responsibility because of what happened in the 1950s it just doesn’t fly imo.
There is only one solution to this. If Israel wants peace it has to make peace and it has to accept they will live side by side with Palestinians. Of course Palestinians have to accept that as well but the first step has to be stop the settlements and stop the siege of Gaza. The only hope imo is the Israeli peace movement and they have to get rid of Netanyahu.
Click to expand...
The solution is to wipe out Hamas & Hezabollah's hold over the Arab people & let them live in peace. This will not succeed until Iran is brought to heel.
 
Tigaman said:
Everyone must agree with me !!
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Just a crazy enough idea to start up WW3 so nobody else really wants to even think about it.




Would solve a hell of a lot of problems in a hurry though............................... well it might not actually solve any of the problems but at least there'd be no-one left to whinge about them.
 
The solution after The War !! Who would want to keep living in this shat hole Gaza after this. Surely you would think Gazans would have had enough migrate & when you get to the new country ditch the religion & be free of an obligation which is the cause of our worlds problems.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Israel outlines Gaza's future once war is over

Under the loosely defined plan, Israel would keep total security control of the Palestinian enclave while an as yet undefined, Israeli-guided Palestinian body would handle day-to-day administration
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Brodders17 said:
Maybe Israelies should move to the Congo?
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It’s not the promised land

The back story to all of this is Netanyahu. He was on his last legs, very unpopular, booted out and only got back in because he signed a pact with extreme right wing Zionist parties. These are the government ministers who are coming out with this stuff, who hold these views.

I still find it incongruous that the Jewish people who were the victims of what is probably the most brutal example of persecution and ethnic cleansing in history (certainly in terms of lives lost) can then do what they are doing. I simply cannot understand it and I probably never will.
 
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Sintiger said:
It’s not the promised land

The back story to all of this is Netanyahu. He was on his last legs, very unpopular, booted out and only got back in because he signed a pact with extreme right wing Zionist parties. These are the government ministers who are coming out with this stuff, who hold these views.

I still find it incongruous that the Jewish people who were the victims of what is probably the most brutal example of persecution and ethnic cleansing in history (certainly in terms of lives lost) can then do what they are doing. I simply cannot understand it and I probably never will.
Click to expand...
The drovers dog understands why this occurring. Hamas pushed the envelope once to often & the Israeli's had had a gutful of their regime thus Hamas has to be removed from this planet.
 
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Sintiger said:
It’s not the promised land

The back story to all of this is Netanyahu. He was on his last legs, very unpopular, booted out and only got back in because he signed a pact with extreme right wing Zionist parties. These are the government ministers who are coming out with this stuff, who hold these views.
Click to expand...
Johnny Howard did a similar thing, his government were way behind in the polls so they made a pact with Aust rednecks and came up with the big fat lie of children overboard.
 
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Sintiger said:
I still find it incongruous that the Jewish people who were the victims of what is probably the most brutal example of persecution and ethnic cleansing in history (certainly in terms of lives lost) can then do what they are doing. I simply cannot understand it and I probably never will.
Click to expand...
Probably it's simply because the core of their lives is based on a primitive and brutal religion, so when things get tough you dig down deeper n go harder.
The original rule of these religions, Christian or Muslim always has no room for acceptance or tolerance of non believers, regardless of how similar the versions of faith may be.
Many people now are more tolerant, indifferent, non believers and even many versions of faith have " modernised " their values attempting to remain relevant to society.
The hard line believers have no interest in moving forward, sharing or tolerating. They want to simply eradicate anything that won't fit their extremely narrow perspective.
 
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So the RWNJ solution appears to be, force the Palestinians out of the very small part of their country they have not yet been forced out of.

Yeah, that's fair.

DS
 
consortiumnews.com

The Spectacular Failure of the Zionist Project

The two-state solution is no longer possible and the only way forward is the struggle for a democratic secular state accommodating both Palestinians and Israelis, writes Stefan Moore. By Stefan Moore Special to Consortium News As a secular Jew raised in a fiercely anti-Zionist family,
consortiumnews.com consortiumnews.com
 
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Israel deliberately created a ghetto in Gaza many years ago, it bears more than a passing resemblance to other ghettos where people are walled in, restricted and only allowed out to work for low wages. They also control what goes in to the ghetto so there is never enough of anything.

This has to stop and a 1 state solution is the only viable option, the 2 state solution has been dead for a very long time. Trouble is, flogging an unviable solution gives Israel a fig leaf to continue to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.

DS
 
Well done South Africa

consortiumnews.com

Israel Worried Ahead of World Court Genocide Hearings

The Netanyahu regime and its chief patron, the United States, understand the magnitude of South Africa’s ICJ application, which will be heard this week, writes Marjorie Cohn. By Marjorie Cohn Truthout For nearly three months, Israel has enjoyed virtual impunity for its atrocious crimes
consortiumnews.com consortiumnews.com
 
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Harry said:
Well done South Africa

consortiumnews.com

Israel Worried Ahead of World Court Genocide Hearings

The Netanyahu regime and its chief patron, the United States, understand the magnitude of South Africa’s ICJ application, which will be heard this week, writes Marjorie Cohn. By Marjorie Cohn Truthout For nearly three months, Israel has enjoyed virtual impunity for its atrocious crimes
consortiumnews.com consortiumnews.com
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At the beckoning of Putin. .
 
If anyone was in any doubt about what Israel's long term agenda is, and especially Netanyahu, Likud and their right wing coalition partners, then all you have to do, apart from looking at the map he took to the UN in September, is to read what he says.

In December Netanyahu tweeted the following:

The Jewish people have an exclusive and unquestionable right to all areas of the Land of Israel
Click to expand...

And

The government will promote and develop settlement in all parts of the Land of Israel — in the Galilee, the Negev, the Golan, Judea and Samaria
Click to expand...

They have no intention of allowing Palestinians to get their own state, and Israel wants all of the occupied territories.

As for sharing the region, no way, we saw that in 2018 when they passed the Jewish Nation-State law, which stipulates:

Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people and they have an exclusive right to national self-determination in it
Click to expand...

This is clearly an aparthied law, it gives more rights to Jews in Israel over any others. Given that non-Jews are around 20% of the Israeli population any pretence that Israel is anything but a state only for the chosen tribe is simply wrong. It is as much a democracy as South Africa was, where only one group has the rights of full citizens.

DS
 
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