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Palestine and Israel

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Nico said:
This is from the Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law - 2010

"Israel claims it no longer occupies the Gaza Strip, maintaining that it is neither a Stale nor a territory occupied or controlled by Israel, but rather it has 'sui generis' status. Pursuant to the Disengagement Plan, Israel dismantled all military institutions and settlements in Gaza and there is no longer a permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in the territory. However, the Plan also provided that Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip as well as maintaining an Israeli military presence on the Egyptian-Gaza border. and reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will.

Israel continues to control six of Gaza's seven land crossings, its maritime borders and airspace and the movement of goods and persons in and out of the territory. Egypt controls one of Gaza's land crossings. Troops from the Israeli Defence Force regularly enter pans of the territory and/or deploy missile attacks, drones and sonic bombs into Gaza. Israel has declared a no-go buffer zone that stretches deep into Gaza: if Gazans enter this zone they are shot on sight. Gaza is also dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications and other utilities, currency, issuing IDs, and permits to enter and leave the territory. Israel also has sole control of the Palestinian Population Registry through which the Israeli Army regulates who is classified as a Palestinian and who is a Gazan or West Banker. Since 2000 aside from a limited number of exceptions Israel has refused to add people to the Palestinian Population Registry.

It is this direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza that has led the United Nations, the UN General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, International human rights organisations, US Government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and a significant number of legal commentators, to reject the argument that Gaza is no longer occupied"

Still think that Israel doesn't occupy Gaza?
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A blockade isn’t occupying the land. Show me where one Israeli settler, one Israeli home or building is/was in Gaza after the 2005 withdrawal.
Anyway it’s all semantics, there were none.

Btw, imo The U.N. is the biggest waste of money and resources in the world. Joke of an organisation
 
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Willo said:
Btw, imo The U.N. is the biggest waste of money and resources in the world. Joke of an organisation
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My experience is that people who make statements like this generally have no idea what the UN actually does, as an example coordinating relief efforts when there is a humanitarian disaster.

Such comments show an enormous lack of respect for the 150 or so UN aid workers who have lost their lives in Gaza

What experience do you have to make such a judgement?
 
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Sintiger said:
My experience is that people who make statements like this generally have no idea what the UN actually does, as an example coordinating relief efforts when there is a humanitarian disaster.

Such comments show an enormous lack of respect for the 150 or so UN aid workers who have lost their lives in Gaza

What experience do you have to make such a judgement?
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On VIP International issues UN becomes a lame duck due to the Veto right. Get rid of that & the world would be a better place.
 
Willo said:
A blockade isn’t occupying the land. Show me where one Israeli settler, one Israeli home or building is/was in Gaza after the 2005 withdrawal.
Anyway it’s all semantics, there were none.

Btw, imo The U.N. is the biggest waste of money and resources in the world. Joke of an organisation
Click to expand...
Watched a video the other week where a taxi driver pointed out an Israeli "settlement" of 50,000 people in a place that by UN 'whatever', they shouldn't be living in.

Do you really think that there are no Israeli's living in Palestinian land, probably after the Palestinian homes were burnt down/ bulldozered/ etc ?
 
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K3 said:
Watched a video the other week where a taxi driver pointed out an Israeli "settlement" of 50,000 people in a place that by UN 'whatever', they shouldn't be living in.

Do you really think that there are no Israeli's living in Palestinian land, probably after the Palestinian homes were burnt down/ bulldozered/ etc ?
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I stated Israelis living in Gaza. Don’t twist my words to suit your agenda
 
Sintiger said:
My experience is that people who make statements like this generally have no idea what the UN actually does, as an example coordinating relief efforts when there is a humanitarian disaster.

Such comments show an enormous lack of respect for the 150 or so UN aid workers who have lost their lives in Gaza

What experience do you have to make such a judgement?
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Thats your opinion.
It’s a bloated, overpaid bureaucracy. How many conflicts have they stopped? How many millions have perished throughout the world?
Its a toothless tiger that costs $billions to administer.

No it doesn’t. I respect what Aid workers do, it’s their governing body that Im critical of.
The Red Cross, Red Crescent, Doctors Without Borders and other organisations do meaningful work, in my opinion, without the waste of $billions.

The experience of nearly 7 decades of living and observing to start with. What experience do you have to pass judgement on my thoughts? You’re entitled to your opinion, the same as I am.
 
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K3 said:
Watched a video the other week where a taxi driver pointed out an Israeli "settlement" of 50,000 people in a place that by UN 'whatever', they shouldn't be living in.

Do you really think that there are no Israeli's living in Palestinian land, probably after the Palestinian homes were burnt down/ bulldozered/ etc ?
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Was the taxi driver Palestinian by any chance? Which settlement was that? I bet it wasn’t in Gaza
 
After the rape of women, children beheaded, men tortured and killed all 1200 of them exactly what do you propose Israel should have done in response?

Maybe pass a motion of mild disaproval of Hamas in the UN?
 
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yandb said:
After the rape of women, children beheaded, men tortured and killed all 1200 of them exactly what do you propose Israel should have done in response?

Maybe pass a motion of mild disaproval of Hamas in the UN?
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Don't think anyone in this thread has shown anything other than disgust and horror at the actions of Hamas. Everything that can be done to wipe them off the face of the planet should. BUT, there is no way known that should involve killing around 20,000 innocent civilians, including 11,000 children (I think that was the last report).

To get rid of Hamas, you don't indiscriminately bomb a people.

IMO the UN 'overall' are seriously toothless and pointless tigers. What is the point of the place, is it just to give people high falootin' sounding jobs?
 
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Willo said:
Thats your opinion.
It’s a bloated, overpaid bureaucracy. How many conflicts have they stopped? How many millions have perished throughout the world?
Its a toothless tiger that costs $billions to administer.

No it doesn’t. I respect what Aid workers do, it’s their governing body that Im critical of.
The Red Cross, Red Crescent, Doctors Without Borders and other organisations do meaningful work, in my opinion, without the waste of $billions.

The experience of nearly 7 decades of living and observing to start with. What experience do you have to pass judgement on my thoughts? You’re entitled to your opinion, the same as I am.
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The aid organisations that you mention work under the auspice of the United Nations when there is a humanitarian crisis. How else to you think they would know what to do and what their responsibilities are? The UN aid agency is absolutely necessary in those circumstances as well when there is a refugee crisis.

One of my children has worked for the UN on secondment as well as working for an aid agency. I have had multiple aid workers in my house and am well aware of how it works. I have also been closely involved in projects in south east Asia working with the UN.

You are the one who made the blanket statement about a whole organisation, which is not without its problems for sure but is also an indispensable part of offering aid to million and millions of dispossessed people around the world. I have also been involved with work with the WHO and I have a friend and ex colleague working for them now in infectious disease management.

Yes it is my opinion but it is an opinion based on some actual experience
 
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yandb said:
After the rape of women, children beheaded, men tortured and killed all 1200 of them exactly what do you propose Israel should have done in response?

Maybe pass a motion of mild disaproval of Hamas in the UN?
Click to expand...
FFS, show me someone here who has said there shouldn't have been a response. Of course there should be a response against Hamas. Against Hamas. Get that?

The attack by Hamas was hideous, and is absolutely condemned by all.

Gazan citizens are trapped in Gaza, they can't escape unlike citizens of other conflicts past and present around the world. They are told by Israel to move from the north to the south of Gaza for safety. So the IDF bomb the road out of the north, and then bomb the south including refugee camps. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Israel are not fighting Hamas, they are committing genocide.
Willo said:
Thats your opinion.
It’s a bloated, overpaid bureaucracy. How many conflicts have they stopped? How many millions have perished throughout the world?
Its a toothless tiger that costs $billions to administer.

No it doesn’t. I respect what Aid workers do, it’s their governing body that Im critical of.
The Red Cross, Red Crescent, Doctors Without Borders and other organisations do meaningful work, in my opinion, without the waste of $billions.

The experience of nearly 7 decades of living and observing to start with. What experience do you have to pass judgement on my thoughts? You’re entitled to your opinion, the same as I am.
Click to expand...
7 decades? You and Tigaman should grab a beer together. I'm sure you'll get on famously.
 
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Nico said:
FFS, show me someone here who has said there shouldn't have been a response. Of course there should be a response against Hamas. Against Hamas. Get that?

The attack by Hamas was hideous, and is absolutely condemned by all.

Gazan citizens are trapped in Gaza, they can't escape unlike citizens of other conflicts past and present around the world. They are told by Israel to move from the north to the south of Gaza for safety. So the IDF bomb the road out of the north, and then bomb the south including refugee camps. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Israel are not fighting Hamas, they are committing genocide.

7 decades? You and Tigaman should grab a beer together. I'm sure you'll get on famously.
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It’s tiresome. This conflict did not start on October 7
Nearly 300 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF and the settlers in the West Bank this year alone. Thousands have been arrested and jailed without trial, many of them are young boys. These deaths and incarcerations are for resisting the illegal takeover of Palestinian land and homes. In the last 50 years more than 60,000 homes have been seized by Israelis representing a land mass greater than Singapore.
My question to those justifying Israel’s actions with the statement “what do you expect them to do?” is to ask the same question back
What do you expect Palestinians to do? Would it be acceptable for Palestinians to bomb the *smile* out of Tel Aviv in retaliation?

When we take this view of greater violence acting as retaliation for violence it is never ending.
 
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Sintiger said:
It’s tiresome. This conflict did not start on October 7
Nearly 300 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF and the settlers in the West Bank this year alone. Thousands have been arrested and jailed without trial, many of them are young boys. These deaths and incarcerations are for resisting the illegal takeover of Palestinian land and homes. In the last 50 years more than 60,000 homes have been seized by Israelis representing a land mass greater than Singapore.
My question to those justifying Israel’s actions with the statement “what do you expect them to do?” is to ask the same question back
What do you expect Palestinians to do? Would it be acceptable for Palestinians to bomb the *smile* out of Tel Aviv in retaliation?

When we take this view of greater violence acting as retaliation for violence it is never ending.
Click to expand...

Sin you keep chipping away with same old line Israel bombing the crap out of Gaza & civilians getting in the way as Israel is attempting to wipe out Hamas especially its leadership.
The other day Hamas leader in Cairo for talks for a temporary cease fire hostage/prisoner exchange so why was he not arrested ?.
 
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