Palestine and Israel

[Willo]

How they got in !!

Inside the biggest Hamas tunnel ever found beneath war-torn Gaza

Thought to stretch some 300 miles beneath the embattled Strip, Israeli soldiers have painstakingly sought to locate every tunnel in the huge network and make them unusable.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Imagine if they spent all the millions and millions$ on Gaza inhabitants welfare and infrastructure, rather than on tunnels.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Willo]

Straight from the horses mouth !!

Freed Israeli hostage Mia Schem breaks silence in first interview

In her first interview since her release, she told Israeli outlet Channel 13 it was 'important to me to relay the truth about the nature of the people who live in Gaza'

www.dailymail.co.uk

No doubt there are many innocent Gazans paying the price of Hamas stupidity.
Just as there's no doubt many are complicit in turning a blind eye (and supporting) Hamas.

It’s the innocent I really feel for. Paying the price for Hamas barbarism. Indocrination plays a big part,but surely they know what Israel’s response would be.
Maybe good men should have acted to oust Hamas beforehand. Easier said than done as Hamas has no scruples and wouldn't be adverse to massacring its own people .
Meanwhile the $billionaire Hamas leaders live the highlife and are protected in the Gulf States.
I‘m betting (and hoping) they are living on borrowed time. Absolute pieces of *smile* sacrificing their own people. I‘m sure the Israeli kill squads have an abundance of high profile targets in their sights.

 

[K3]

Imagine if they spent all the millions and millions$ on Gaza inhabitants welfare and infrastructure, rather than on tunnels.

You reap what you sow.

You mean the tunnels that were (don't know %s or anything) used to get food, water and power to people in need?

 

[Willo]

You mean the tunnels that were (don't know %s or anything) used to get food, water and power to people in need?

I highly doubt that the tunnels were used for that.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/map-of-gazas-complex-tunnel-network-reveals-israels-mammoth-task/news-story/411dce8fbdf53f53bddfb4d89796a56e

 

[DavidSSS]

There has been a lot of talk about how Israel have a right to "self-defence".

Actually, under International Law, they don't.

A state cannot simultaneously exercise control over territory it occupies and militarily attack that territory on the claim that it is “foreign” and poses an exogenous national security threat. In doing precisely that, Israel is asserting rights that may be consistent with colonial domination but simply do not exist under international law.

This is from an article written in 2012, so well before the current situation.

If you occupy a territory, under International Law an occupying power does not have a right to self-defence against those who you occupy.

DS

 

[Nico]

No doubt there are many innocent Gazans paying the price of Hamas stupidity.
Just as there's no doubt many are complicit in turning a blind eye (and supporting) Hamas.

It’s the innocent I really feel for. Paying the price for Hamas barbarism. Indocrination plays a big part,but surely they know what Israel’s response would be.
Maybe good men should have acted to oust Hamas beforehand. Easier said than done as Hamas has no scruples and wouldn't be adverse to massacring its own people .
Meanwhile the $billionaire Hamas leaders live the highlife and are protected in the Gulf States.
I‘m betting (and hoping) they are living on borrowed time. Absolute pieces of *smile* sacrificing their own people. I‘m sure the Israeli kill squads have an abundance of high profile targets in their sights.

If you could advise a way that the innocent Gazan population of which 47% are 18 or younger can oust Hamas, many would love to hear.

My friend and colleague Khaled hates Hamas, and he has said to me many times "...but what can I do? Me and my family would be slaughtered if I went against them".

Khaled messaged me 2 days ago that his 80 yo grandmother, aunt, uncle, and 2 cousins (ages 8 and 14) have been killed by bombs.

 

[K3]

If you could advise a way that the innocent Gazan population of which 47% are 18 or younger can oust Hamas, many would love to hear.

My friend and colleague Khaled hates Hamas, and he has said to me many times "...but what can I do? Me and my family would be slaughtered if I went against them".

Khaled messaged me 2 days ago that his 80 yo grandmother, aunt, uncle, and 2 cousins (ages 8 and 14) have been killed by bombs.

When you add that Hamas was "voted" (big air quotes on that one) over 20 years ago, ppl spouting on about voting them in/ out are really just throwing up *smile* strawmen to try and take away from the wholesale slaughter and genocide that the Israeli govt is perpetrating against the Palestinian people.

What is it now... over 20,000 civilians killed through largely indiscriminate bombing of a populace.

Disgusting and shameful stuff!

 

[Tigaman]

There has been a lot of talk about how Israel have a right to "self-defence".

Actually, under International Law, they don't.



This is from an article written in 2012, so well before the current situation.

If you occupy a territory, under International Law an occupying power does not have a right to self-defence against those who you occupy.

DS

Not worth the paper written on when you have to wipe out scum like this who hide under the umbrella of their silent ilk.

https://www.dailymail.co/news/article-12909695/Women-raped-Hamas-nails-driven-thighs-groin-passed-terrorists-slaughtered-gang-rape-horrifying-new-witness-accounts-October7-reveal.html

 

[DavidSSS]

Not worth the paper written on when you have to wipe out scum like this who hide under the umbrella of their silent ilk.

https://www.dailymail.co/news/article-12909695/Women-raped-Hamas-nails-driven-thighs-groin-passed-terrorists-slaughtered-gang-rape-horrifying-new-witness-accounts-October7-reveal.html

Apart from the fact I won't read anything from that pack of liars, you are not addressing the post (how unusual) - the fact is that as an occupying power Israel does not have the right to defend itself against the residents of the occupied territories (there's a hint in the name, you must have missed that, too subtle for some).

DS

 

[Willo]

Apart from the fact I won't read anything from that pack of liars, you are not addressing the post (how unusual) - the fact is that as an occupying power Israel does not have the right to defend itself against the residents of the occupied territories (there's a hint in the name, you must have missed that, too subtle for some).

DS

Since 2005, I wasn’t aware that Israel occupied Gaza.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/a-decade-later-israelis-see-gaza-pullout-as-big-mistake/2015/08/14/21c06518-3480-11e5-b835-61ddaa99c73e_story.html

 

[Willo]

Apart from the fact I won't read anything from that pack of liars, you are not addressing the post (how unusual) - the fact is that as an occupying power Israel does not have the right to defend itself against the residents of the occupied territories (there's a hint in the name, you must have missed that, too subtle for some).

DS

Which rag do you trust?
Maybe they share the same stories. But I suppose that doesn’t suit your narrative

 

[Willo]

When you add that Hamas was "voted" (big air quotes on that one) over 20 years ago, ppl spouting on about voting them in/ out are really just throwing up *smile* strawmen to try and take away from the wholesale slaughter and genocide that the Israeli govt is perpetrating against the Palestinian people.

What is it now... over 20,000 civilians killed through largely indiscriminate bombing of a populace.

Disgusting and shameful stuff!

No “straw man” at all. The fact is, Hamas is the ruling power. Hamas planned and orchestrated mass murder and other atrocities.
”Taking away from the wholesale slaughter and genocide”? I think everyone agrees that it is abhorrent. Innocents always suffer the consequences of others actions. Always. No one condones that.

 

[Willo]

‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7

A Times investigation uncovered new details showing a pattern of rape, mutilation and extreme brutality against women in the attacks on Israel.

www.nytimes.com

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

www.bbc.com

New signs emerge of 'widespread' sexual crimes by Hamas, as Netanyahu alleges global indifference

New testimony and evidence gathered by a rights groups indicate that Hamas militants carried out widespread sexual and gender-based crimes during their Oct. 7 attack in southern Israel.

apnews.com

Evidence suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped or mutilated by Hamas

NBC News has reviewed evidence that suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped, sexually abused or mutilated during the Oct. 7 Hamas terror attacks.

www.nbcnews.com

Focus - Evidence mounts of sexual crimes perpetrated by Hamas during Oct. 7 attack on Israel

Two months after the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, evidence is mounting of the sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas that day. Prosecutors have little doubt that women were raped, tortured and some…

www.france24.com

Is rape and sexual assault part of the Hamas tactic of war?

In the Israel-Hamas war, the horror of the act of rape grips us and shocks the consciousness.

thehill.com

Biden calls reports of Hamas' sexual violence against Israeli women 'appalling'

He said they needed to be condemned "without equivocation, without exception."

abcnews.go.com

Hamas used horrific sexual violence, raping and mutilating Israeli women and girls on October 7: NYT

The NYT reported that it had found at least seven locations where women and girls appeared to have been the victims of sexual assaults or mutilations.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/25/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence/

There Was No Cover-Up of Hamas’s Sexual Violence on October 7

The right manufactured it, the media and feminists bought in — and Israel is exploiting the outcry.

theintercept.com

Opinion | The Rape of the Israeli Women

Hamas’s crimes on Oct. 7 were deliberate and systematic. Why has the left been disbelieving, silent or equivocal?

www.wsj.com

How about some of these sources?

 

[Nico]

‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7

A Times investigation uncovered new details showing a pattern of rape, mutilation and extreme brutality against women in the attacks on Israel.

www.nytimes.com

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

www.bbc.com

New signs emerge of 'widespread' sexual crimes by Hamas, as Netanyahu alleges global indifference

New testimony and evidence gathered by a rights groups indicate that Hamas militants carried out widespread sexual and gender-based crimes during their Oct. 7 attack in southern Israel.

apnews.com

Evidence suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped or mutilated by Hamas

NBC News has reviewed evidence that suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped, sexually abused or mutilated during the Oct. 7 Hamas terror attacks.

www.nbcnews.com

Focus - Evidence mounts of sexual crimes perpetrated by Hamas during Oct. 7 attack on Israel

Two months after the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, evidence is mounting of the sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas that day. Prosecutors have little doubt that women were raped, tortured and some…

www.france24.com

Is rape and sexual assault part of the Hamas tactic of war?

In the Israel-Hamas war, the horror of the act of rape grips us and shocks the consciousness.

thehill.com

Biden calls reports of Hamas' sexual violence against Israeli women 'appalling'

He said they needed to be condemned "without equivocation, without exception."

abcnews.go.com

Hamas used horrific sexual violence, raping and mutilating Israeli women and girls on October 7: NYT

The NYT reported that it had found at least seven locations where women and girls appeared to have been the victims of sexual assaults or mutilations.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/25/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence/

There Was No Cover-Up of Hamas’s Sexual Violence on October 7

The right manufactured it, the media and feminists bought in — and Israel is exploiting the outcry.

theintercept.com

Opinion | The Rape of the Israeli Women

Hamas’s crimes on Oct. 7 were deliberate and systematic. Why has the left been disbelieving, silent or equivocal?

www.wsj.com

How about some of these sources?

Can you quote one poster here who has supported Hamas, or hasn't completely been outraged by the October 7th attack?

The attack was sickening.

Having said that, was the attack purely dur Hamas' hatred of Israel, or was there other reasons that may have caused the attack?

 

[Nico]

Since 2005, I wasn’t aware that Israel occupied Gaza.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/a-decade-later-israelis-see-gaza-pullout-as-big-mistake/2015/08/14/21c06518-3480-11e5-b835-61ddaa99c73e_story.html

This is from the Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law - 2010

"Israel claims it no longer occupies the Gaza Strip, maintaining that it is neither a Stale nor a territory occupied or controlled by Israel, but rather it has 'sui generis' status. Pursuant to the Disengagement Plan, Israel dismantled all military institutions and settlements in Gaza and there is no longer a permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in the territory. However, the Plan also provided that Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip as well as maintaining an Israeli military presence on the Egyptian-Gaza border. and reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will.

Israel continues to control six of Gaza's seven land crossings, its maritime borders and airspace and the movement of goods and persons in and out of the territory. Egypt controls one of Gaza's land crossings. Troops from the Israeli Defence Force regularly enter pans of the territory and/or deploy missile attacks, drones and sonic bombs into Gaza. Israel has declared a no-go buffer zone that stretches deep into Gaza: if Gazans enter this zone they are shot on sight. Gaza is also dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications and other utilities, currency, issuing IDs, and permits to enter and leave the territory. Israel also has sole control of the Palestinian Population Registry through which the Israeli Army regulates who is classified as a Palestinian and who is a Gazan or West Banker. Since 2000 aside from a limited number of exceptions Israel has refused to add people to the Palestinian Population Registry.

It is this direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza that has led the United Nations, the UN General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, International human rights organisations, US Government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and a significant number of legal commentators, to reject the argument that Gaza is no longer occupied"

Still think that Israel doesn't occupy Gaza?

 

[Tigaman]

This is from the Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law - 2010

"Israel claims it no longer occupies the Gaza Strip, maintaining that it is neither a Stale nor a territory occupied or controlled by Israel, but rather it has 'sui generis' status. Pursuant to the Disengagement Plan, Israel dismantled all military institutions and settlements in Gaza and there is no longer a permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in the territory. However, the Plan also provided that Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip as well as maintaining an Israeli military presence on the Egyptian-Gaza border. and reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will.

Israel continues to control six of Gaza's seven land crossings, its maritime borders and airspace and the movement of goods and persons in and out of the territory. Egypt controls one of Gaza's land crossings. Troops from the Israeli Defence Force regularly enter pans of the territory and/or deploy missile attacks, drones and sonic bombs into Gaza. Israel has declared a no-go buffer zone that stretches deep into Gaza: if Gazans enter this zone they are shot on sight. Gaza is also dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications and other utilities, currency, issuing IDs, and permits to enter and leave the territory. Israel also has sole control of the Palestinian Population Registry through which the Israeli Army regulates who is classified as a Palestinian and who is a Gazan or West Banker. Since 2000 aside from a limited number of exceptions Israel has refused to add people to the Palestinian Population Registry.

It is this direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza that has led the United Nations, the UN General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, International human rights organisations, US Government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and a significant number of legal commentators, to reject the argument that Gaza is no longer occupied"

Still think that Israel doesn't control Gaza?

Gaza should become a No Mans Land. As for the Palestinian/Hamas lot mass migration to Iran who will welcome them with open arms.

 

[Harry]

 

[DavidSSS]

Since 2005, I wasn’t aware that Israel occupied Gaza.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/a-decade-later-israelis-see-gaza-pullout-as-big-mistake/2015/08/14/21c06518-3480-11e5-b835-61ddaa99c73e_story.html

Everybody else is aware of it.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

I am tired of hearing about how bad Hamas is as if it is some sort of justification of a genocide. There is not one person on this site who has offered any sort of support for Hamas and for what they did on October 7. There are people who are offering justification for what Israel is doing and to me there is none, it is genocide.

I am not arguing with people who try to justify it any more, it is pointless.

I am not a Christian but this Lutheran Minister in Bethlehem (which is in the occupied West Bank) has got it right.

"If you fail to call this a genocide, that is on you"

 

[Willo]

Everybody else is aware of it.

DS

“Everybody“ must be living in the past