Another point Sin this map has been shown to be terribly dishonest and manipulative.
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Palestine and Israel
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I get that view and that is the line we walk
My view is that the fight for Palestinian statehood is a just one. That view is shared by the majority of the countries in the world, it is backed by UN resolutions. By the way it is acknowledged by our own government as well, as noted in the joint communique from the 3 prime ministers last week. Israel has been flaunting that for years. They have taken more and more land in contravention to those resolutions. They have laid siege to Gaza.
What Hamas did was abhorrent, I don’t defend it in any way. But just because it happened doesn’t suddenly make what Israel has done in the past right and defendable.
When I hear the Israeli President say “ there are no innocent people in Gaza” I hear a response that shows no regard for human life. What they are doing now in response is wrong.
We have to remember that ultimately this will not be solved by killing from either side it can only be solved by Palestinian nationhood or shared land.
The difference between terrorism and war is a line which cannot really be defined. For example is the killing of Palestinians by Israeli settlers on land that is deemed Palestinian under UN resolutions an act of war or terrorism?
All I am saying is just because a terrible act has been perpetrated against Israelis, that doesn’t make what they have been doing right.
It has been disputed by one scholar in one you tube video that I have seen.
We can draw any maps we like but there is a map that no one can dispute and that is the 2 state solution map agreed to by Israel and the Palestinians in 1993 at the Oslo accords.
Especially in the West Bank, that Palestinian land has been whittled away by illegal Israeli settlements.
To me its valid that the 4 maps represent different measurements and together are misleading so its pertinent not to contniue the misinformation.
The premise that the area was Palestine before 1948 is interesting. Italy wasnt Italy before 1871 so no map would show Italy.
So it can be difficult to show local representation. The situation is my complex and nuanced than those 4 maps and the concept that the Palestinians were there first.
Agree that the Oslo accords had the best solution so far.
Is it fair to say that both sides havent respected it. Illegal Isreali settlements.
And Palestinian rocket attacks
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I get it.
And I get that my posts have been liked by a troll (why does anyone respond to that?)
So I have a fine line to walk, as I post.
I'm going to say too that much of your post I agree with.
but its whatabouterism.
Talking about settlers is a distraction imo.
For example is the killing of Palestinians by Israeli settlers on land that is deemed Palestinian under UN resolutions an act of war or terrorism?
I'd say neither. Its not a crime.
no doubt state sanctioned too. Similar crimes in Xuighur, Amazon etc.
Doesnt make it right and Israel need to follow UN resolutions.
Here's a thought - whether its Palestinian or any other human. Is statehood an inalienable right ?
What if that state continues to wage war and destruction on others?
In a general statement.
I am gobsmacked by this statement. In what universe is that not a crime? It is murder
For example is the killing of Palestinians by Israeli settlers on land that is deemed Palestinian under UN resolutions an act of war or terrorism?
I'd say neither. Its not a crime
The illegal settlements and the violence against the Palestinians that occurs in taking that land is not a distraction, it is fundamental to the dispute.
What would you suggest the Palestinians do? What is the solution for them?
Sorry thats a typo.
It should read - "its not (terrorism/war) its a crime"
100% a crime and they should be prosecuted inc the govt supporting it
My mistake, posting from my phone
Ok, makes sense
To me it is terrorism, no doubt. The only reason Israeli settlers are taking Palestinian property in the West Bank is that they can and they know their government not only won’t do anything to stop it, they actually encourage it
There has to be balance. If you condemn Hamas you must also condemn Israel
On Gaza. Israel is at war with the elected Palestinian authority of Gaza which has always been at war with Israel as stated in their charter.
The current Israeli government is the most racist and theocratic government Israel has ever experienced and is all but fascist. The current authority of Gaza is racist and theocratic and hell bent on ensuring the world becomes an Islamic theocracy. They were elected by the Palestinian people way back with the same racist genocidal charter. No problem with such ideas for the Palestinians back then.
Then on Oct 7 you get thousands of Palestinian males, mostly but not all under the banner of Hamas invading Israel and doing this.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/...nce-hamas-israel-what-we-know-intl/index.html
And this if you have the stomach to watch.
How does a state react appropriately or proportionately to this I wonder? Where is the blueprint?
One thing as Douglas Murray recently pointed out, what other oppressed people in the world when fighting their oppressors at first opportunity resorts to the level of sexual violence and torture and total barbarism against innocent women and children as Gazan Palestinian men? There’s something completely fcked up going on there.
The current Israeli government is the most racist and theocratic government Israel has ever experienced and is all but fascist. The current authority of Gaza is racist and theocratic and hell bent on ensuring the world becomes an Islamic theocracy. They were elected by the Palestinian people way back with the same racist genocidal charter. No problem with such ideas for the Palestinians back then.
Then on Oct 7 you get thousands of Palestinian males, mostly but not all under the banner of Hamas invading Israel and doing this.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/...nce-hamas-israel-what-we-know-intl/index.html
And this if you have the stomach to watch.
How does a state react appropriately or proportionately to this I wonder? Where is the blueprint?
One thing as Douglas Murray recently pointed out, what other oppressed people in the world when fighting their oppressors at first opportunity resorts to the level of sexual violence and torture and total barbarism against innocent women and children as Gazan Palestinian men? There’s something completely fcked up going on there.
The educational philosophy pushed by both the Palestinian authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza is something like this:
And this:
Is it possible for a governing authority to be more unimaginative ? More guilty of inspiring hate?
And then you have the fact that in Israel fascist theocratic jewish families are out populating secular jewish families - the most tolerant and peace loving jews on earth and the very same Hamas Palestinians celebrated in slaughtering on Oct 7- so dramatically that in the future these religious fascists are guaranteed by their numbers to ensure the never ending violence continues Hopeless. Depressing.
Peace and Love.
And this:
Is it possible for a governing authority to be more unimaginative ? More guilty of inspiring hate?
And then you have the fact that in Israel fascist theocratic jewish families are out populating secular jewish families - the most tolerant and peace loving jews on earth and the very same Hamas Palestinians celebrated in slaughtering on Oct 7- so dramatically that in the future these religious fascists are guaranteed by their numbers to ensure the never ending violence continues Hopeless. Depressing.
Peace and Love.
Good article in the guardian today about the settler violence.
Its not just because they can, it alludes to a financial decision by some, and a nihilistic decision by others.
Strong American influence to the violence, its very wild westian.
But in context too is that its territory gained from a war where Israel was invaded. So I'm sure some Smiles think its now justified spoils.
How American citizens are leading rise of ‘settler violence’ on Palestinian lands
The Biden administration instituted a travel ban on extremist Jewish settlers who attack Palestinians but there is a glaring loophole for US citizens
Its criminal and horrible. The level of violence and support from the Israeli govt is rotten
Harry there was a missed word in my post.
The settler violence is criminal and should be prosecuted by Israel.
Sorry for misleading you with that post
Good article in the The Age about how the conflict is creating schisms in our society here.
I know a Jewish woman who has been shunned by her family for her anti Israeli government views.
There are moderate views on both sides and somehow they need to be heard
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ing-melbourne-apart-20231212-p5er1s.html?btis
I know a Jewish woman who has been shunned by her family for her anti Israeli government views.
There are moderate views on both sides and somehow they need to be heard
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ing-melbourne-apart-20231212-p5er1s.html?btis
If you ever want to understand what life is like in East jerusalem I suggest you want this film. It was made in 2015 and is about a joint music project between Jews and Palestinians but has the backdrop of what it is like there
I remember a couple of quotes where one person said that when he grew up in East Jerusalem the only Jews he had ever met were soldiers and another said there are children in East Jerusalem who had never seen a tree. Yet in the end the film is about a message of hope.
How they got in !!
www.dailymail.co.uk
Inside the biggest Hamas tunnel ever found beneath war-torn Gaza
Thought to stretch some 300 miles beneath the embattled Strip, Israeli soldiers have painstakingly sought to locate every tunnel in the huge network and make them unusable.
Straight from the horses mouth !!
www.dailymail.co.uk
Freed Israeli hostage Mia Schem breaks silence in first interview
In her first interview since her release, she told Israeli outlet Channel 13 it was 'important to me to relay the truth about the nature of the people who live in Gaza'
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