Palestine and Israel

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hi Lids,

Found your photos interesting.
Found a couple of them on Google Images.

Seems to be a mixture of photos
http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&q=Beirut&start=0&sa=N

I'm not going to put up the ugly ones only because that isn't fair.
People can look and judge all the photos in context.

Of course, our opinions are also influenced by the 2005 Assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=2005+Assassination+of+former+Prime+Minister+Rafiq+Hariri&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

But matters may have changed to some extent since the Lebanese Civil War that ended in 1990.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

I was certainly glad to hear that Hezbollah distanced itself from the missiles launched into Israel from Lebanon yesterday.
http://mwcnews.net/content/view/27746/0/

Hopefully things have changed in Lebanon for the long term.

Just one question Lids,

I do plan to take my wife on a trip to the Greek Islands & Istanbul soon.
Am I safe making Beirut a part of our trip?

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

phantom, whats the relevance of hariri's assassination or the need for the wiki link to the civil war?

sure there are some 'ugly' images there but the relevance of the images i posted were relating to your comment

"the Christians have all been massacred or expelled and the country is now a ruin."

there are thriving christian communities within beirut and all over lebanon and as antman has said christians make up 40% of all lebanese in lebanon. also as you can see lebanon or beirut is far from a ruin so your comments appear way of the mark

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

:rofl

Hopefully they do it like in Paris and force them to fit in with the old world charm of the city and not the horrendous sites they have in the West.

unfortunately no, they plonk them in terrible places in all their shabby inglorious tackiness anywhere they can.

this one looks slightly better

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Just one question Lids,

I do plan to take my wife on a trip to the Greek Islands & Istanbul soon.
Am I safe making Beirut a part of our trip?

i cant see why not, travelling on australian passports will be a breeze.

 

[S.D.]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Amazing pictures given the bombing campaign of the IDF in 2006, although most of the damage was in Southern Lebanon.

The Lebanese Christian population is estimated at around 40%. One of the most common Zionist myths is that Arabs can't coexist with other religions, but this is clearly not the case in Lebanon.

Also true in Iran. They have a Jewish and christian communities, free to practice their religion, despite their leaders fundamentalist stance.
Even in Iraq, under Sadam Hussein, the deputy prime minister Tarik Aziz was christian

 

[IanG]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hussein's government wasn't Muslim, it was a secular government. Atrocities aren't only committed in the name of religion.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

phantom, whats the relevance of hariri's assassination or the need for the wiki link to the civil war?

sure there are some 'ugly' images there but the relevance of the images i posted were relating to your comment

"the Christians have all been massacred or expelled and the country is now a ruin."

there are thriving christian communities within beirut and all over lebanon and as antman has said christians make up 40% of all lebanese in lebanon. also as you can see lebanon or beirut is far from a ruin so your comments appear way of the mark

Fair enough.

I did go overboard but surely you in particular would appreciate the destabilising affect the Palestinians had on Lebanese politics in the 70s.
After all, the Lebanese Civil War began over the Palestinians, when the Phalange grew tired of them. Remember that it was the Christian section of Lebanon that appealed for Israeli involvement for protection. But that was the past and one of the saddest memories was the Israeli army bombing the central Beirut hospital. It was a Civil War that Israel should never have become involved in.
We remember the Civil War because it tells us of where Lebanon has advanced from.

Sincerely, it is great to see that Beirut has recovered so well since the Civil War. Many of us have sad memories of when the PLO turned it into a rubble stockade. But it's great to see it back again.

Thanks for the advice on travelling to Beirut. We will consider it.
My favourite place of travel was Egypt. I still have fond memories.

 

[S.D.]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hussein's government wasn't Muslim, it was a secular government. Atrocities aren't only committed in the name of religion.

Yes, but the point was about Arabs perceived to not be co-existing with other religions.

 

[glantone]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

What are the odds of ‘the chosen ones’ murdering their way to an enduring peace with the Palestinians or the Palestinians murdering their way to securing land lost?

Eh?.... does it make one iota of sense to anyone outside these territories?

After all these years I find it hard to believe that either side actually thinks for one moment that what they're doing serves any useful purpose other than to complete some ritual for ritual sake, .... kind of like sex in a failed marriage – just do it cause that’s what’s expected.

Anyone seen any prolonged general strikes in either state with the populace absolutely demanding peace, an end to the murder from their respective governments?
Maybe people just mirror their leadership, I don’t know.

Anyway, until both countries (and probably the region) miraculously have at the same time leaders who have the imagination and courage to make peace it seems to me the holy lands will remain forever godless.

“The only alternative to coexistence is codestruction” says Jawaharial Nehru.
Well said mate!

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Jimmy Carter's take on the situation.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Jimmy Carter's take on the situation.

Jimmy Carter is extremely well respected.

In the late 70s, he brokered the Camp David agreements between Egypt & Israel that still exist today.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

I did go overboard but surely you in particular would appreciate the destabilising affect the Palestinians had on Lebanese politics in the 70s.

You could also argue quite cogently that the Jews had quite a destabilising effect on Palestinian politics since the 1920s. Right through until the present day actually.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

You could also argue quite cogently that the Jews had quite a destabilising effect on Palestinian politics since the 1920s. Right through until the present day actually.

True.

Palestinians have had a tough time over the years.
The Jordanians expelled them in the 70s.
The Lebanese Civil War was begun when the Phalange attacked the these Palestinian refugees.
The PLO was expelled from Lebanon in the early 1980s.

Israel is the only one who has been prepared to give them their own territory.

Mind you, as I always said, Gaza has since ancient times been recognised as Philistine/Palestinian territory.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Fair enough.

I did go overboard but surely you in particular would appreciate the destabilising affect the Palestinians had on Lebanese politics in the 70s.
After all, the Lebanese Civil War began over the Palestinians, when the Phalange grew tired of them. Remember that it was the Christian section of Lebanon that appealed for Israeli involvement for protection. But that was the past and one of the saddest memories was the Israeli army bombing the central Beirut hospital. It was a Civil War that Israel should never have become involved in.
We remember the Civil War because it tells us of where Lebanon has advanced from.

Sincerely, it is great to see that Beirut has recovered so well since the Civil War. Many of us have sad memories of when the PLO turned it into a rubble stockade. But it's great to see it back again.

Thanks for the advice on travelling to Beirut. We will consider it.
My favourite place of travel was Egypt. I still have fond memories.

i hope you get the chance to squeeze beirut into your travel plans, as i said its a truly beautiful city

my dad has recently spent a week in egypt with his 2 brothers doing a nile cruise etc. i cant wait to catch up with him upon his return from travelling next week and hear his thoughts. it was his first trip there

 

[the claw]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

I would be extremely disappointed if you sent such a PM, L&B.
It was my hope to extend the hand of friendship to you.

I could never contemplate the extermination of any race of people on this earth.

as a history buff myself i can see no solution to the palestinian israli problem.
as a history buff ive come to realise when going to war you have to be prepared to commit to total war.

our history tells us that christians and muslims have never got along and never will.
to me its when not if the world goes to war again and it will be a clearly defined religious war christian v muslim.

its my opinion that the west should wipe out the muslim while it has the upper hand because if the muslim ever gains the upper hand he will surely wipe out the west and anyone who does not conform to his way of thinking.hows that for rradical fanatical thinking but this is exactly the way muslims think.

also i agree with liverpool there is no will on the arab side to find a solution to the problem hate just runs to deep.

israel has had the bomb since 1950 it has never resorted to useing it even though it has been under siege since its establishment.
to me the biggest concern is iran. i find it hard to fathom the israelis or the rest of the world for that matter allowing such a fanatical state to develop nuclear weapons. a state that has openly declared it will wipe israel of the map. its a wonder they havent acted. i think i would be getting in first if i were the israelis and putting a stop to that nuclear program once and for all.

 

[S.D.]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

our history tells us that christians and muslims have never got along and never will.
to me its when not if the world goes to war again and it will be a clearly defined religious war christian v muslim.

its my opinion that the west should wipe out the muslim while it has the upper hand because if the muslim ever gains the upper hand he will surely wipe out the west and anyone who does not conform to his way of thinking.hows that for rradical fanatical thinking but this is exactly the way muslims think.

Just when you thought inane racist jibberish could not reach new lows...

 

[the claw]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Just when you thought inane racist jibberish could not reach new lows...

well i do my best. and i object to being called racist. if being racist is treating people the way you expect to be treated yourself well hallelujah im a racist.

i base my above comments in a historical sence. history teaches us that christian and muslim have been at loggerheads since the inception of islam in 4 hundred and something ad. so i suppose this makes me an historical racist well so be it.

oh if you think it gibberish good on ya but all logic points to a confrontation at some point between east and west or if yopu like muslim christian.

heres one for ya claws crystal ball. in great britain in the next 40 50 yrs there will be civil war it will be for control of the country between muslim and christian.unless gb changes now it will probably be to late.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

unfortunately no, they plonk them in terrible places in all their shabby inglorious tackiness anywhere they can.

Cheers Lids, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. My ex was french and she used to be stunned at how many fast food outlets there were throughout Australia and America. Every time I went to Paris I was super impressed by how they forced McDonalds to make their restaurants fit in, to the rest of the buildings/street. You virtually had to stumble on one to find it and they were only in highly commerical/shopping areas for the most part, unlike the garish ones in western countries.

Is your blood from Beirut Lids? Or have you fell in love with it strictly from your travels?

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Cheers Lids, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. My ex was french and she used to be stunned at how many fast food outlets there were throughout Australia and America. Every time I went to Paris I was super impressed by how they forced McDonalds to make their restaurants fit in, to the rest of the buildings/street. You virtually had to stumble on one to find it and they were only in highly commerical/shopping areas for the most part, unlike the garish ones in western countries.

Is your blood from Beirut Lids? Or have you fell in love with it strictly from your travels?

parents are both lebanese, i was born here so i may be a tad biased :fing32

 

[S.D.]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

well i do my best. and i object to being called racist. if being racist is treating people the way you expect to be treated yourself well hallelujah im a racist.

i base my above comments in a historical sence. history teaches us that christian and muslim have been at loggerheads since the inception of islam in 4 hundred and something ad. so i suppose this makes me an historical racist well so be it.

No, I call you a racist because you want to wipe out 1.5billion people because of their religion.

So you're a bit of a history buff eh? Well the I guess you know that war has been the one constant in the human race, regardless of religion. Religion has certainly been a cause, but most wars have nothing at all to do with religion
WWI - Christian vs Christians , with the Germans having the muslim Turks as allies
WWII - Christian vs Christian (in Europe anyway), with Christians waniting to extreminate the Jews
Crimean War - Christian British and French with Muslim Turk allies against Christian Russians
Even in the Crusades which are the ultimate in religious wars, the Christians managed to massacre fellow christians on the way to the middle east, and, in the fourth crusade, sack Christian Constandinople, irreversibly damaging the Byzantine Empire.
Iran - Iraq a war between muslim nations
In the first gulf war a coalition including USA, UK, Australia and other christian western countries and Muslim Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Pakistan, Oman, Qatar, UAE all fought together against Muslim Iraq .

You go on and on about christians versus muslims. What's going on in Israel is between Muslims and Jews, nothing at all to do with Christians