Palestine and Israel | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Palestine and Israel

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Re: Not Good News From Israel

eight ace said:
In any event, what I said was that I was on neither side. You can believe that or nor - You must be aware by know what your opinion means to me. Is it really such a stretch that I should expect more of the military arm of a nation state than I would of a terrorist organisation? Can you get your tiny little mind around that?

What you haven't grasped Eightace, is that a terrorist organisation, such as Hezbollah, only understands one form of negotiation.
Cheap words about peace and ceasefires will be forgotten, once Hezbollah are back to their original strength.
Israel have learnt over time, the concept that you haven't grasped yet, that its "kill or be killed".

Israel are determined this time, to either wipe Hezbollah out, or at least, weaken it militarily so much, that it can't launch major attacks against Israel in the future.

Expecting Israel to base their operation on a different 'standard' purely because its a military arm of nation/state....yet allow Hezbollah to attack willy-nilly, because its only a terrorist organisation.....is wrong.

Why should Hezbollah be dealt a different hand because of their standing?
Are Israel's citizens of any less value, than a Lebanese civilian?
Hezbollah rockets can still kill people, just as Israeli missles can kill people, you know.

So no....I don't believe you're on neither side, and no, I don't care what you think of my opinion.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

> >> This was Littlejohn's piece in Friday's Daily Mail and is a very courageous
> >> and accurate assessment. If you want to pass comments or thank him,
> >> his
> >> email is [email protected]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Richard Littlejohn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The civilian casualties are awful but Israel is fighting for its
> >> existence
> >>
> >>
> >> 09:22am 4th August 2006
> >>
> >> There's no doubt Israel is losing the propaganda war. You don't have
> >> to be a
> >> paid-up peacenik to find some of the pictures coming out of the
> >> Middle East
> >> distressing.
> >>
> >> No one with an iota of humanity wants to see the corpses of women and
> >> children caught up in the conflict.
> >>
> >> But you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist, either, to wonder how
> >> many
> >> of the male "civilians" killed by the Israelis are actually Hezbollah
> >> terrorists or whether everything we're being shown from Lebanon is
> >> for real.
> >>
> >>
> >> Islamonazis are sophisticated propagandists and they know they'll
> >> find a
> >> gullible audience in the civilised world for their carefully-strewn
> >> teddy
> >> bears, strategically-placed "Baby Milk Factory" signs (in English) and
> >> wailing widows from central casting.
> >>
> >> Have you ever noticed how every time a coalition air strike goes
> >> astray in
> >> Iraq, it always manages to hit a "wedding party"?
> >>
> >> Why is there only ever one child's shoe in the rubble, never a pair?
> >> There
> >> always seems to be a broken medicine box, too, with a handy red cross
> >> -
> >> never a red crescent, mind you - on the lid, just in case we haven't
> >> got the
> >> message.
> >>
> >> Credulous CNN correspondents and hand-wringing BBC reporters fall over
> >> themselves to sign up for the Hezbollah guided tour of the ruins.
> >>
> >> I use a rough rule of thumb whenever I watch television coverage of
> >> the
> >> Middle East. Anyone who pronounces Hezbollah as 'Hiz-bull-arrrgh' and
> >> Israeli as 'Izza-ra-ay-lee' is almost certainly telling lies.
> >>
> >> Disproportionate
> >>
> >> The bien-pensant buzzword used to describe Israel's bombing is
> >> "disproportionate". But what's "proportionate"? Are the thousands of
> >> rockets
> >> fired at genuine civilian targets in Israel "proportionate"?
> >>
> >> It is only because Israelis are hunkered down in underground shelters
> >> built
> >> out of necessity and bitter experience, or have fled out of range of
> >> Hezbollah's salvoes, that there haven't been piles of bodies on their
> >> side
> >> of the border.
> >>
> >> What would "world opinion" consider an acceptable death toll before
> >> acknowledging Israel's right to retaliation and self-defence - 1,000?
> >> 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
> >>
> >> Hezbollah has started a war it knows it can't win in the certain
> >> knowledge
> >> that there will be civilian casualties. Its stated aim is to kill as
> >> many
> >> Israelis as possible and if innocent Lebanese get caught in the
> >> crossfire,
> >> tough.
> >>
> >> These fanatics have little or no regard for human life. Their tactic
> >> is to
> >> hide among civilians; to use terrified women and children as human
> >> shields;
> >> to deploy school playgrounds as rocket launch sites; hotels and
> >> apartment
> >> blocks as command centres; homes as weapons dumps; mosques as air-raid
> >> shelters.
> >>
> >> I've heard reporters referring to Hezbollah as a "resistance"
> >> movement. They
> >> love it, don't they? Just as they insist on calling terrorist
> >> murderers
> >> "radicals" or "militants" - as if there's no difference between Al
> >> Qaeda and
> >> Aslef train drivers on unofficial strike.
> >>
> >> What they never point out is that if Hezbollah didn't exist, there
> >> would be
> >> nothing to resist. Israel is the Tony Martin of the Middle East,
> >> lashing out
> >> in fear and frustration after enduring years of provocation.
> >>
> >> Just as Tony Martin was abandoned by the police to endure burglary
> >> after
> >> burglary at his remote farmhouse, so the "international community"
> >> has done
> >> nothing to disarm and disband Hezbollah or prevent it and Hamas
> >> repeatedly
> >> attacking Israel.
> >>
> >> The United Nations hasn't lifted a finger to stop Iran and Syria
> >> supporting
> >> and supplying a standing terrorist army in Lebanon.
> >>
> >> There are no sanctions against the barking mad president of Iran when
> >> he
> >> constantly threatens to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and is
> >> hell-bent on obtaining nuclear weapons.
> >>
> >> Iran has put Lebanese civilians in the front line of its lunatic war
> >> against
> >> Israel and the U. S. in particular and Western civilisation in
> >> general. So
> >> where's the international condemnation?
> >>
> >> Hezbollah is the provisional wing of Iran. Would it be
> >> "proportionate" if
> >> Israel attacked the paymasters and ringleaders of Hezbollah in Tehran?
> >>
> >> Security
> >>
> >> It may yet come to that. But first Israel has to remove the immediate
> >> threat
> >> to its security.
> >>
> >> The United Nations isn't going to do that. The UN is a busted flush,
> >> led by
> >> the laughable Kofi Annan - the Chauncey Gardiner of world diplomacy.
> >> When it
> >> left the U.S.-led coalition to go it alone in Iraq, it sent a clear
> >> message
> >> to other tyrants and rogue states that they had nothing to fear from
> >> the UN.
> >>
> >>
> >> Listening to "world opinion" has got Israel nowhere. It was told it
> >> should
> >> trade land for peace. So it did. It got war. Israel pulled out of
> >> southern
> >> Lebanon six years ago.
> >>
> >> Hezbollah boasts that it has spent that time preparing for this fresh
> >> assault, building tunnels and bunkers and stockpiling a deadly
> >> arsenal of
> >> 13,000 weapons, which it is now raining down on Israeli civilians.
> >>
> >> There are hourly calls for a ceasefire, but when Tel Aviv suspended
> >> bombing
> >> for 48 hours the response was a record number of Katyusha rockets
> >> fired into
> >> Israel in return.
> >>
> >> I saw a BBC reporter standing on a hillside trying to convince us that
> >> because missiles were still being fired from Lebanon despite three
> >> weeks of
> >> fighting, it was evidence that Israel's tactics weren't working and it
> >> couldn't win.
> >>
> >> Hezbollah has spent six years building up its arsenal in preparation
> >> for
> >> this war. Who said an Israeli victory would only take three weeks?
> >>
> >> If there is a ceasefire, Hezbollah will simply regroup. There's talk
> >> of a
> >> negotiated settlement, but how do you cut a deal when one side says
> >> it will
> >> not be satisfied until the other is totally eradicated?
> >>
> >> Lasting peace has only ever followed total victory in war. Even if
> >> Israel
> >> and Hezbollah/ Iran agree to walk away tomorrow, we'll be back here
> >> again in
> >> a few years.
> >>
> >> Then there's the Palestinian question. Again, even though Israel ceded
> >> territory in pursuit of peace, terror attacks and kidnappings on
> >> Israeli
> >> soil have continued.
> >>
> >> There's talk about dusting off the old "road map". Israel accepts
> >> there will
> >> have to be a two-state solution, but the only "road map" of the
> >> Middle East
> >> its enemies will accept is one without Israel on it at all.
> >>
> >> Carnage
> >>
> >> Meanwhile, spare a thought for the Jewish community in Britain.
> >> They're as
> >> distressed by the carnage as the rest of us and there are divisions
> >> over
> >> Israel's actions. No one wallows in the death of innocents - except,
> >> of
> >> course, Hezbollah and its Iranian puppet-masters.
> >>
> >> At this time of year, there are 15,000 British Jewish teenagers in
> >> Israel on
> >> the traditional summer rite of passage. And there are 30,000 British
> >> passport holders living in Israel.
> >>
> >> Although we had wall-to-wall coverage of grumbling British passport
> >> holders
> >> being evacuated from Beirut, there doesn't seem to have been equal
> >> concern
> >> about our fellow citizens under bombardment on the other side of the
> >> border.
> >>
> >>
> >> What struck me about the recent pro-Israel demonstration in London
> >> was the
> >> number of Union flags in the crowd. These are our people.
> >>
> >> I didn't notice any Union flags at the Stop The War rally, though
> >> there were
> >> plenty of "We Are All Hezbollah Now" banners. It doesn't seem to dawn
> >> on
> >> them that if you want to stop the war you've got to stop Hezbollah.
> >>
> >> But what drives most of these "peace campaigners" is not so much a
> >> desire
> >> for peace as a hatred of Israel.
> >>
> >> Every time something goes off in Iraq we're told it will radicalise
> >> young
> >> Muslims back in Britain. We hear that Tony Blair's failure to call
> >> for an
> >> immediate halt to the Israeli offensive has put us at imminent risk of
> >> another Islamist homicide attack on our streets.
> >>
> >> Despite the Hezbollah war on Israel and the mounting casualties - and
> >> the
> >> widespread condemnation of Israel in this country - I've yet to hear
> >> anyone
> >> warn that young British Jews are queueing to blow up themselves and
> >> hundreds
> >> of others at Brent Cross shopping centre.
> >>
> >> I repeat, this war is awful. The civilian deaths are a tragedy.
> >>
> >> But there won't be peace in the Middle East until the likes of Iran,
> >> Hezbollah and Hamas recognise Israel's right to exist.
> >>
> >> And, I'm afraid, this side of kingdom come, that just ain't gonna
> >> happen.
> >>
> >> Israel may be losing the propaganda war, but it isn't fighting a
> >> propaganda
> >> war - it's fighting a real war for its very existence.

As said previously, in human history, the only long term peace comes with the total annihilation of your opposition.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Don't tell me what I have or haven't grasped, Liverpool. You have no idea.

Of course, all who do not fully support the IDF in all its activities are credulous and gullible and fully support the sophisticated Islamonazis. Right.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

eight ace said:
Goddamn Liverpool - Do you understand what you read? *smile*ing norah, I could go on this ludicroous loop with you for days. I am not going to try and explain it again, work it out for yourself. In any event, what I said was that I was on neither side. You can believe that or nor - You must be aware by know what your opinion means to me. Is it really such a stretch that I should expect more of the military arm of a nation state than I would of a terrorist organisation? Can you get your tiny little mind around that?

Give up arguing with Liverpool eightace - I have.

Liverpool is of "you are either with us or against us" school and has said as much. All or nothing. Ends justify the means. Any opposing argument must be discredited rather than addressed rationally. You are either for Israel and all its activities or you are on the front line with the suicide bombers. You are either gung ho on the War on Terror or you are an apologist for the Islamonazis.

I tried reason, diplomacy, treading gently, treating Liverpool's posts with tolerance and good humour. Nothing worked. I realised I was on a treadmill where although I was prepared to advance my argument, Liverpool was not.

So I gave up debating him. Problem solved.

I'll still post on this thread when I have something to contribute but "debating" Liverpool is not something that adds value to anyone.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Surprisingly, I haven't had 'leftist anti-semite' thrown at me yet.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Phantom said:
This was Littlejohn's piece in Friday's Daily Mail and is a very courageous
and accurate assessment. If you want to pass comments or thank him,
his
email is [email protected]

Phantom,
Thank you so much for your article from 'LittleJohn".
I think he has covered in 1 article, exactly what I've been saying for 30 pages!
Again, thank you.

Antman/EightAce/CurtisBear.
You may not agree with my views. I don't care.
However, you have admitted to acknowledging Phantom's posts.....hopefully the three of you read the article Phantom has posted above and acknowledge it, with as much enthusiasm and fervour, as you have articles written by Fisk, and articles regarding bombings of fishing-fleets.
I hope this article may get through to you, where my posts have obviously failed.
Remember, your 'balanced view' counts on it.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

eight ace said:
Surprisingly, I haven't had 'leftist anti-semite' thrown at me yet.

You probably won't.
It's a philosophical connundrum.
The modern movement of equality for all, a moderately left proposition, meant equality for "Semites" (Jews) too.
Many of western Europe's major leftists were Jews, eg, Karl Marx for one.

So I don't think you'll get a 'leftist anti-semite' thrown from anyone knowledgeable.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Phantom said:
The modern movement of equality for all, a moderately left proposition, meant equality for "Semites" (Jews) too.

FWIW, "Semite" is a language group, not a term that refers exclusively to Jewish people - though it is often misused in this way (very rarely by Sephardic Jews). "Semitic" languages include Amharic, Aramaic, Arabic and Syriac as well as Hebrew.

That means there's a lot of "Semites" in the world, of which Jewish people form a part.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Rayzorwire said:
Phantom said:
The modern movement of equality for all, a moderately left proposition, meant equality for "Semites" (Jews) too.

FWIW, "Semite" is a language group, not a term that refers exclusively to Jewish people - though it is often misused in this way (very rarely by Sephardic Jews). "Semitic" languages include Amharic, Aramaic, Arabic and Syriac as well as Hebrew.

That means there's a lot of "Semites" in the world, of which Jewish people form a part.

Agree.
It's not what the word means, but it is how it has come to be used.
You may recall that I dealt with this during one of the chapters that I posted.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Liverpool said:
Antman/EightAce/CurtisBear.
You may not agree with my views. I don't care.
However, you have admitted to acknowledging Phantom's posts.....hopefully the three of you read the article Phantom has posted above and acknowledge it, with as much enthusiasm and fervour, as you have articles written by Fisk, and articles regarding bombings of fishing-fleets.
Remember, your 'balanced view' counts on it.
Don't see why I've been adressed here. That was my first post on this topic. ???
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Spoke to my daughter, again, last night.

She was in tears.
Her group leader from the start of the year, a 21yo boy, an Israeli citizen & a reservist, was called up a few days ago. He was killed yesterday when a Hezbollah rocket was fired directly at his tank.

She also said that she'd been in contact with one of my distant relatives in the port city of Haifa. My distant relative has had to attend, in the last fortnight, 5 funerals of her closest friends. She thinks her time must be coming soon.

I spent time consoling her, telling her that becoming used to the death of close ones is a part of life. That we all have experienced & have dealt with the death of close ones. That we need to take ourselves to a private place and cry. I told her that there is no greater honour for a man than to die in the cause of saving the lives of his countrymen, and that he should be remembered for his always smiling face, and that he was a hero.

I hope that I said the right thing.

I asked her if she wanted to come home.
She was steadfast in her reply, "No!" She felt it was now her duty to remain & help where she could.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Phantom said:
Spoke to my daughter, again, last night.

She was in tears.
Her group leader from the start of the year, a 21yo boy, an Israeli citizen & a reservist, was called up a few days ago. He was killed yesterday when a Hezbollah rocket was fired directly at his tank.

She also said that she'd been in contact with one of my distant relatives in the port city of Haifa. My distant relative has had to attend, in the last fortnight, 5 funerals of her closest friends. She thinks her time must be coming soon.

I spent time consoling her, telling her that becoming used to the death of close ones is a part of life. That we all have experienced & have dealt of the death of close ones. That we need to take ourselves to a private place and cry. I told her that there is no greater honour for a man than to die in the cause of saving the lives of his countrymen, and that he should be remembered for his always smiling face, and that he was a hero.

I hope that I said the right thing.

I asked her if she wanted to come home.
She was steadfast in her reply, "No!" She felt it was now her duty to remain & help where she could.

Good Stuff Phanto
She must be one tough girl.
Did you let her know that you'd sold the Jag. (Too much bad news already)
Any chance she's coming home
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Michael said:
Did you let her know that you'd sold the Jag.
Any chance she's coming home

Well she must be home at the beginning of January. She is contracted to lead a Melbourne youth camp then.
Regarding the Jag. She was part of the decision-making process for the Yaris. Seems to be a popular car for young ladies. (Lots of headroom for the latest hairdoos.)
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Phantom said:
Michael said:
Did you let her know that you'd sold the Jag.
Any chance she's coming home

Well she must be home at the beginning of January. She is contracted to lead a Melbourne youth camp then.
Regarding the Jag. She was part of the decision-making process for the Yaris. Seems to be a popular car for young ladies. (Lots of headroom for the latest hairdoos.)

You must be desperate for summer to get here.

I bet the Yaris doesnt have a cigar lighter though
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Michael said:
Phantom said:
Michael said:
Did you let her know that you'd sold the Jag.
Any chance she's coming home

Well she must be home at the beginning of January. She is contracted to lead a Melbourne youth camp then.
Regarding the Jag. She was part of the decision-making process for the Yaris. Seems to be a popular car for young ladies. (Lots of headroom for the latest hairdoos.)

You must be desperate for summer to get here.

I bet the Yaris doesnt have a cigar lighter though

Yes.
And the Yaris does have a cigarette lighter. I've replaced it with my mobile phone recharger. And it's got a new nifty portable ashtray thingy that can be used in a variety of ways.
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Phantom...just want to wish your daughter well, and hope she will be alright there. I have a friend who has brothers, and a father in Haifa.She is very concerned for their safety too. Would be nice to see peace there soon, but it's not looking good.
All the best to you, and your family, and a safe return for you daughter..
 
Re: Not Good News From Israel

Chelsea said:
Phantom...just want to wish your daughter well, and hope she will be alright there. I have a friend who has brothers, and a father in Haifa.She is very concerned for their safety too. Would  be nice to see peace there soon, but it's not looking good.
All the best to you, and your family, and a safe return for you daughter..

Thank you Chelsea,
And the best to your friend's family too.
 
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