Palestine and Israel

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Antman,
I've been accused in the past as 'trawling' the internet finding quotes from Islamic leaders regarding the Jews.
It's nice to see yourself doing the trawling this time to find some leftist propaganda to read by Robert Fisk.

You are really jumping at shadows Liverpool.

You will note I posted these pieces without comment. I did not work them into an "argument" as you tend to do, or use them to support my own ideas. These pieces are merely posted for people to read an "insider" view of a journalist who has spent many years of his life in Lebanon - and who is highly respected, even if contentious. Fisk's position is very clear and he does not hide it - this is why I posted the Wikipedia reference to Fisk.

The Wikipedia piece mentions the "fisking" reference and Fisk's main critics - which you seized on. It also mentions his many awards for journalism which you conveniently leave out.

I do try to be fair and put things in context Liverpool - unlike yourself who cuts-and-pastes without mercy.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

I do try to be fair and put things in context Liverpool - unlike yourself who cuts-and-pastes without mercy.

No....if you really wanted to be fair, you'd post a Fisk article AND, say for example, one from Andrew Bolt.
Now THAT would be 'being fair'!

You have your more "left leaning" views on the Lebanese/Israel dilemma, and thats fine.
And I'm quite happy to admit that I support the Israel/USA line in this particular crisis.

Hence the trawling/cutting/pasting that we are both doing....

I guess where I have the advantage is that it is so easy to find Islams who want to rid the world of Israel and Jews....whereas its a bit harder to find Jewish suicide-bombers demanding that Islam be wiped from the Earth!

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

No....if you really wanted to be fair, you'd post a Fisk article AND, say for example, one from Andrew Bolt.
Now THAT would be 'being fair'!

Rubbish - I post material that I think has merit - even if I might disagree with its slant or conclusions - hence I read and appreciate the material that Phantom posts.

To compare Fisk, a highly respected and awarded journalist, to Bolt is ridiculous. If people want to read Bolt they can pick up a newspaper - most people here cannot read Fisk without searching him out. I don't see you taking a balanced view to this issue - you only selectively post information that supports only your side of the argument. You quote the criticism of Fisk but do not acknowledge the fact that he is praised and highly awarded. I posted the wikipedia link to be fair in the full knowledge it presented both sides of Fisk - you however still find it impossible to see that there are always two sides to an argument.

You have your more "left leaning" views on the Lebanese/Israel dilemma, and thats fine.
And I'm quite happy to admit that I support the Israel/USA line in this particular crisis.

Hence the trawling/cutting/pasting that we are both doing....

My views on this issue are neither left nor right. It is absurdly reductionist to see the complexities of Lebanon/Islam/Hizbollah as "left" (bad in your view I guess) and Israel/USA/the West as "right" - but it typifies the naive approach you have to the issue.

I want to see positive outcomes in the Middle East and agree with many of the things Phantom says - however I am interested in making sure both sides of the story are heard and we don't uncritically swallow the unmitigated crap that Howard, Blair, Bush and Rice try to shove down our throats.

I don't trawl as I am not a hypocrite and take care that if I criticise someone for something, I make damn sure that I don't commit the same sin. I don't cut and paste out of context. I present information fairly. I accused you of trawling - you seek out quotes, remove them from their context and sticking them together to support your "argument". I have never done this and never will as I believe it is intellectually dishonest - it might score a few cheap points in an argument but it means nothing.

I guess where I have the advantage is that it is so easy to find Islams who want to rid the world of Israel and Jews....whereas its a bit harder to find Jewish suicide-bombers demanding that Islam be wiped from the Earth!

No, but we have the Israeli army bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure back to the stone-age in Lebanon - all the way up to Beirut and beyond. I acknowledge that suicide bombings are evil and do nothing to promote peace and progress in the Middle East. I acknowledge that there are sins on both sides of the fence.

You however have one ideological approach and find it impossible to look outside this view. I won't bother to respond to any more of your posts on this issue as you have nothing original to say and see the whole debate as a cheap point scoring exercise.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Rubbish - I post material that I think has merit - even if I might disagree with its slant or conclusions - hence I read and appreciate the material that Phantom posts. 

To compare Fisk, a highly respected and awarded journalist, to Bolt is ridiculous.  If people want to read Bolt they can pick up a newspaper - most people here cannot read Fisk without searching him out.  I don't see you taking a balanced view to this issue - you only selectively post information that supports only your side of the argument.  You quote the criticism of Fisk but do not acknowledge the fact that he is praised and highly awarded.   I posted the wikipedia link to be fair in the full knowledge it presented both sides of Fisk - you however still find it impossible to see that there are always two sides to an argument. 

Antman,
I really don't care how many awards, medals, trophies, or certificates Fisk has been given. Whatever he writes is HIS opinion of what is happening in Iraq or Lebanon.
Its alright talking about 'balanced views', then how come Fisk hasn't written articles denouncing Bin-Laden, or Hezbollah themselves, and only writes articles criticising US and Allied actions in the Mid-East?
Yes, there are 2 sides to every argument....you accuse me of finding impossible to see both sides, yet Fisk is only seeing it from one side also.
I guess that's o.k, as he is writing from the side you see from also.

My views on this issue are neither left nor right. It is absurdly reductionist to see the complexities of Lebanon/Islam/Hizbollah as "left" (bad in your view I guess) and Israel/USA/the West as "right" - but it typifies the naive approach you have to the issue.
I want to see positive outcomes in the Middle East and agree with many of the things Phantom says - however I am interested in making sure both sides of the story are heard and we don't uncritically swallow the unmitigated crap that Howard, Blair, Bush and Rice try to shove down our throats.
I don't trawl as I am not a hypocrite and take care that if I criticise someone for something, I make damn sure that I don't commit the same sin. I don't cut and paste out of context. I present information fairly. I accused you of trawling - you seek out quotes, remove them from their context and sticking them together to support your "argument". I have never done this and never will as I believe it is intellectually dishonest - it might score a few cheap points in an argument but it means nothing.

Yes, I also want to see a positive outcome from the Mid-East...thats's something we do agree on! :clap
...but....whoooooa...hold on there...I may find some 'evidence' to back up my point, and I may cut/paste it from the webpage onto this forum, but many times I include the link. I don't cut/paste 'out of context' as you suggest, and as I just mentioned, if I do cut/paste a snippet from another webpage, I usually try and remember to include the link so yourself or other readers can also read the complete article.
So please don't come up with accusations and saying you will 'never never do such a thing to score cheap points' rubbish!

No, but we have the Israeli army bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure back to the stone-age in Lebanon - all the way up to Beirut and beyond. I acknowledge that suicide bombings are evil and do nothing to promote peace and progress in the Middle East. I acknowledge that there are sins on both sides of the fence.

You however have one ideological approach and find it impossible to look outside this view. I won't bother to respond to any more of your posts on this issue as you have nothing original to say and see the whole debate as a cheap point scoring exercise.

You say you are giving a 'balanced view' but the last part of your post pretty much sums your view up. :

It's easy for you to say that:
"Israeli army bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure back to the stone-age in Lebanon"......
.....but you don't go on to criticise Hezbollah for using these same civilians as human-shields or for Hezbollah blending in with the population. You don't go and criticise the Lebanese Government for allowing Hezbollah to do what they like in southern Lebanon, and for letting them build rocket/missile sites in and around towns and villages...or for allowing Hezbollah to use civilian shelters, including schools and hospitals to store weapons and explosives.
All you say is further in your post is:
"I acknowledge that there are sins on both sides of the fence".

:

You say you are neither left nor right....and you aim for a balanced view? :rofl

No.....you are trying to give people your side to counteract my side.
You have a view, and its not balanced...its the opposite to my view, thats all.

 

[eight ace]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/the-day-ouzais-fishermen-lost-hope/2006/08/07/1154802820374.html

Clearly the focus is on military objectives alone.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/the-day-ouzais-fishermen-lost-hope/2006/08/07/1154802820374.html

Clearly the focus is on military objectives alone.

Not necessarily Eightace...(seeing that I've been accused in the past by Antman of only cutting/pasting things out of context), here is the complete article from the Baltimore Sun, with the relevant part highlighted, explaining why Ouzai was attacked (seems it was a Hezbollah stronghold).

Like Antman said mate...there are 2 sides to every story! :

Israel suffers one of its highest death tolls

BEIRUT, Lebanon // Amid a burst of belligerent threats by Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, rockets fired by his fighters killed at least eight Israeli civilians yesterday, one of Israel's worst daily civilian death tolls since the start of fighting last month.

Five of the deaths occurred in the northern Israel coastal town of Akko, where a group of people emerged from a bomb shelter after one barrage only to be caught in the next. "With the first siren, we went into the bomb shelter," said Avi Attar, who witnessed the deadly attack. "A minute later, we came out because we were curious, and just then another one landed."

Among the dead were a father and daughter. The three other victims, killed near Maalot, were members of Israel's Arab minority. In all, 27 Israeli civilians have died from rocket fire since combat between the Islamist militant group and Israeli forces began July 12.

Four Israeli soldiers also died in intense ground fighting north of the Israeli-Lebanese border, as Israeli forces continued what Defense Minister Amir Peretz described as a push to control territory up to the Litani River, the dividing line between Shiite-dominated southern Lebanon and the rest of the country.

Maj. Zvika Golan, a spokesman for the Northern Command, said the army hopes to push nine miles into Lebanon within the next two days by "cleansing" village after village where Hezbollah militants operate. But he said the army needs to deploy two brigades in addition to the six brigade-sized units in Lebanon,.

Militant leader Nasrallah, in a speech carried on Hezbollah's Al-Manar television, mocked Israeli claims that a substantial number of Hezbollah's rockets had been knocked out during 23 days of fighting and that its command structure had been badly weakened.

"I will tell you something. We are at military readiness. We are still in complete command of the front. We are in control of all the missile sites. ... We are in complete control," he said.

The Hezbollah leader warned Israel against further strikes on the Lebanese capital.

"If you attack our capital, Beirut, we will attack your capital, Tel Aviv. I'm telling you honestly: We will hit you very hard," he said.

Israel regards Jerusalem as its capital, but Israeli officials believe that the Shiite militia possesses long-range Iranian-made missiles capable of hitting Tel Aviv and its environs, Israel's most densely populated area.

In his remarks, Nasrallah described the Israeli offensive as coming at the behest of the Bush administration. "Israel is doing ... this with American orders, American arms and American rockets," he said.

But he also offered to stop the rocket attacks if Israel halts its offensive.

Most of the fighting yesterday was in Lebanon's south, but southern Beirut also came under fresh attack in the predawn hours. Israel also dropped new leaflets warning residents to leave the predominantly Shiite Muslim suburbs that have long been strongholds of Hezbollah.

Israel also launched isolated airstrikes in the north and the east, cutting bridges in the Bekaa Valley linking Hezbollah strongholds there. Airstrikes in the south killed several civilians, including a family of three who died when their house was hit in the border village of Taibeh, and residents there were continuing to plead with the Red Cross to evacuate them, according to Lebanese press reports.

In Beirut, at least four missiles struck the southern suburb of Dahiyeh overnight, driving more residents out of an area that once was home to half a million people and the headquarters of Hezbollah.

Israeli warplanes continued to pound southern Beirut early today, launching 15 bombing runs in a half hour, local media reported.

Fighter jets flew over the Hezbollah stronghold of Ouzai after hitting the suburb of Dahieh. Israel said its targets were guerrilla facilities and an office of Hamas, the militant group which runs the Palestinian government.

Hezbollah had fired more than 213 rockets into Israel by nightfall yesterday, despite a wide-ranging Israeli ground offensive that military officials say has deprived the guerrillas of many of their prime launching sites. Israel vowed to keep the fight going against Hezbollah, although international mediators said they hoped a cease-fire could be struck next week.

"Israel will seek out Hezbollah, go after it, until these murderous attacks end and until quiet is restored to northern Israel," said David Baker, an official in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office.

The Israeli deaths came a day after Hezbollah fired more than 230 rockets into Israel in the biggest barrage since the fighting broke out after a Hezbollah cross-border raid in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two captured.

 

[eight ace]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

A single unsupported reference to the town being an Hizbollah stronghold. My, how convincing.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

A single unsupported reference to the town being an Hizbollah stronghold. My, how convincing.

It's a newspaper article mate....just like you posted a newspaper article, but couldn't help but add the sarcastic quote "Clearly the focus is on military objectives alone"....so where is your supportive evidence proving this town is not a Hezbollah stronghold, and that Israel might have had every right to attack it? :

Oh...and you forgot to post from the same newspaper you were using:


Lebanese PM in 'massacre' u-turn

Beirut
August 8, 2006 - 11:14AM

Lebanon's Prime Minister said today that Israeli raids had killed 40 civilians in a "horrific massacre" in a border village, before correcting himself hours later to put the toll at just one dead.

A UN spokesman later said five people were killed in Houla.

Prime Minister Fuad Saniora broke into tears at a meeting of Arab League foreign ministers as he described the attack.

The United Nations dispatched two armoured personnel carriers and a medical rescue team to Houla in the afternoon, said Milos Struger, a spokesman for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon.

UN staff provided immediate medical assistance to 20 wounded Lebanese civilians, and evacuated five of them to a nearby UN base, Struger said.

"The team, along with the residents of the village, recovered five bodies from under the debris," he said. "Around 150 civilians are still in the village."

Saniora said at a news conference after the Arab League session that he had based the number 40 on unspecified information that he had received. He offered no other explanation for the error.

"It turned out that there was one person killed. They thought that the whole building smashed on the head of about 40 people and it turned out, thank God because we are not happy if someone is killed, they have been saved," Saniora said.

In initially announcing 40 had died, Saniora was nearly sobbing as he appealed to fellow Arab states to help a nation "stunned" by a devastating Israeli onslaught since July 12 that has targeted civilians and infrastructure.

There had been heavy ground fighting between Hizbollah guerrillas and Israeli in the Houla area in recent days.

"An hour ago, there was a horrific massacre in the village of Houla in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing," Saniora said to the foreign ministers, who appeared shocked when he made the announcement.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/lebanese-pm-in-massacre-uturn/2006/08/07/1154802822726.html

C'mon....I thought you and Antman were for a "balanced view" now? :hihi

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Liverpool.

I have already said I am no longer interested in debating you in this topic.

Given this, please stop referring to me in your postings.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Liverpool.

I have already said I am no longer interested in debating you in this topic.

Given this, please stop referring to me in your postings.

Antman,
Of course you won't debate any further.
You claim you are giving a "balanced view" and you are on neither side, yet the only posts and links you show us are anti-Israel/pro-Lebanon/Hezbollah.
That to me isn't balanced.

At least I am telling you all that I am on the side of Israel on this one, and therefore, of course I will post links/quotes supporting my view.
And I blame the Lebanese Government even more than Hezbollah for what has happened over there.

You don't want to debate mate, because you haven't got the guts to say exactly what YOU think of the situation, and instead hide behind this fence-sitting position of "balanced view".

At least with Eightace, I know he is anti-Liverpool...so even if I said the bloody sky was blue, he'd say it was 'red'! :hihi

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yes. Well there seem to be plenty of newspaper articles & various versions of what is going on.

What is clear to me is that:
1. The Lebanese government, for all its words, just doesn't have to capacity to carry out it may pledge on paper.
2. That Israel will do what it needs to secure its borders.
3. That Hezbollah has no long term peaceful intension towards Israel.
4. None of the immediate participants are winning any new friends.

The Lebanese govt wants Israel to leave its territory, but it has no capacity to secure its territory.

In the past, Israel has negotiated long term peaceful solutions with both Jordan & Egypt.
Israel now lives in peaceful co-operation with these 2 neighbours.

But it does take 2 parties to tango.
Until Israel can find a 2nd party to conduct long term negotiations with then, I'm afraid, there is no hope.

Sad but true.

 

[Chiang Mai Tiger]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yes. Well there seem to be plenty of newspaper articles & various versions of what is going on.

What is clear to me is that:
1. The Lebanese government, for all its words, just doesn't have to capacity to carry out it may pledge on paper.
2. That Israel will do what it needs to secure its borders.
3. That Hezbollah has no long term peaceful intension towards Israel.
4. None of the immediate participants are winning any new friends.

The Lebanese govt wants Israel to leave its territory, but it has no capacity to secure its territory.

In the past, Israel has negotiated long term peaceful solutions with both Jordan & Egypt.
Israel now lives in peaceful co-operation with these 2 neighbours.

But it does take 2 parties to tango.
Until Israel can find a 2nd party to conduct long term negotiations with then, I'm afraid, there is no hope.

Sad but true.

I would like to share with everyone something which got me thinking differently about this conflict.

BBC World's 'Hardtalk' current affairs program interviewed ex Israeli PM Netinyahu (sorry spelling) yesterday and while he basically said word for word all of what Michael says above, when he was questioned about the large number of civilian Lebanese deaths due to aerial bombing he made an interesting analogy between that to the Allies bombing of Nazi Germany 60 years ago.

He described how London and its civilian population suffered V1 and V2 rocket attacks. Winston Churchill responded by directing Air Marshall 'Bomber' Harris of Bomber Command to target Germany's large civilian cities. Netinyahu describes the result to the BBC reporter, 'Your country bombed German civilians, women and children, indiscriminately and turned German Cities to complete rubble and then you made that rubble bounce.'

He mentioned Dresden, a city with no military infrastructure, munitions factories or even air defence units. It was targeted for reasons still unknown and suffered shocking civilian casualties from incendiary carpet bombing.

Although he said he regretted the loss of Lebanese civilian life and reiterated that Israel is trying to minimise it, his analogy, right or wrong is food for thought.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

It was targeted for reasons still unknown and suffered shocking civilian casualties from incendiary carpet bombing.

Dresden was bombed because it was and always has been the cultural centre of Germany...full of priceless documents, artifacts, artwork etc.

Ironically, the outrage it caused in some circles throughout the Allied world was a decisive factor in the US not using Kyoto (which held much the same place/role in Japanese society) as one of its 'demonstration sites' for the atomic bomb.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yes. Well there seem to be plenty of newspaper articles & various versions of what is going on.

What is clear to me is that:
1. The Lebanese government, for all its words, just doesn't have to capacity to carry out it may pledge on paper.
2. That Israel will do what it needs to secure its borders.
3. That Hezbollah has no long term peaceful intension towards Israel.
4. None of the immediate participants are winning any new friends.

The Lebanese govt wants Israel to leave its territory, but it has no capacity to secure its territory.

In the past, Israel has negotiated long term peaceful solutions with both Jordan & Egypt.
Israel now lives in peaceful co-operation with these 2 neighbours.

But it does take 2 parties to tango.
Until Israel can find a 2nd party to conduct long term negotiations with then, I'm afraid, there is no hope.

Sad but true.

I would like to share with everyone something which got me thinking differently about this conflict.

BBC World's 'Hardtalk' current affairs program interviewed ex Israeli PM Netinyahu (sorry spelling) yesterday and while he basically said word for word all of what Michael says above, when he was questioned about the large number of civilian Lebanese deaths due to aerial bombing he made an interesting analogy between that to the Allies bombing of Nazi Germany 60 years ago.

He described how London and its civilian population suffered V1 and V2 rocket attacks. Winston Churchill responded by directing Air Marshall 'Bomber' Harris of Bomber Command to target Germany's large civilian cities. Netinyahu describes the result to the BBC reporter, 'Your country bombed German civilians, women and children, indiscriminately and turned German Cities to complete rubble and then you made that rubble bounce.'

He mentioned Dresden, a city with no military infrastructure, munitions factories or even air defence units. It was targeted for reasons still unknown and suffered shocking civilian casualties from incendiary carpet bombing.

Although he said he regretted the loss of Lebanese civilian life and reiterated that Israel is trying to minimise it, his analogy, right or wrong is food for thought.

Yes, a very good analogy, CMT.
I was thinking about the current similarity with the Dresden bombings last week.

 

[eight ace]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hizbollah stronghold or not, Liverpool, how is the destruction of the fishing fleet justified? Israel had no right to attack it. In any event I don't have to provide evidence that the town was a Hizbollah stronghold or otherwise. You are making the assertion, therefore the onus is yours. As I said, the article you referred to holds a single unsupported reference in that regard. You have failed in meeting your onus. Try again.

The reference to Dresden was an interesting one, as that attack is now widely condemned by history. An analogous approach by Israel could in no way be seen as an attempt to 'secure its borders'. Typical of Netinyahu to avoid the immediate question by making the analogy.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hizbollah stronghold or not, Liverpool, how is the destruction of the fishing fleet justified? Israel had no right to attack it. In any event I don't have to provide evidence that the town was a Hizbollah stronghold or otherwise. You are making the assertion, therefore the onus is yours. As I said, the article you referred to holds a single unsupported reference in that regard. You have failed in meeting your onus. Try again.

Eightace....its easy to draw conclusions and assume....have you thought that maybe, just maybe, that Hezbollah were shooting rockets from this fishing fleet? Also, just another crazy idea, that Israeli ships have been attacked by rockets from this area?

Oh...and the article I posted was, in your eyes, an "unsupported reference" , yet your article, also from a newspaper, is gospel? You article is "the truth"? How is your article better substantiated than mine?
Oh...pleeease... :spin...gotta do better than that sunshine! ;D

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Antman,
Of course you won't debate any further.
You claim you are giving a "balanced view" and you are on neither side, yet the only posts and links you show us are anti-Israel/pro-Lebanon/Hezbollah.
That to me isn't balanced.

You are in danger of frothing at the mouth Liverpool. I never said anywhere I was on "neither side". In fact I stated my own position very clearly in this post http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22715.msg451994#msg451994 in this thread. Go and read it again.

At least I am telling you all that I am on the side of Israel on this one, and therefore, of course I will post links/quotes supporting my view.
And I blame the Lebanese Government even more than Hezbollah for what has happened over there.

You know nothing about the Lebanese government, Hizbollah, or the Lebanese people beyond what you read on the net yesterday. This is why debating with you is futile - you take a position based on ideology, not on an understanding of a situation and its historical context. You then find "evidence" whereever you can to support your position which usually means googling something some Islamic nutter said once. If someone posts something contrary they are on the "other side" and must be discredited - again by using the mighty Google style of argument.

You don't want to debate mate, because you haven't got the guts to say exactly what YOU think of the situation, and instead hide behind this fence-sitting position of "balanced view".

See above. My position is very clear. I present information fairly and judge information provided by the other side of the debate fairly. If Phantom makes a good point, I acknowledge it. This is what I mean by balanced. To you that means something else - fence-sitting apparently.

At least with Eightace, I know he is anti-Liverpool...so even if I said the bloody sky was blue, he'd say it was 'red'! :hihi

For you this thread is really a barrel of laughs, isn't it? This is why I can't be bothered with you anymore. Its all about scoring points on a forum rather than have a rational debate that might just lead somewhere. And all the while people are dying on both sides. Oh sorry, guess that makes me a fence-sitter again. In fact to you anyone who sees that there is blame and fault on both sides must be a "fence-sitter".

No doubt you will come back with some asinine "rebuttal" of this post complete with smiley faces, rolly eyes and silly laugh emoticons to show how witty and clever you are because you can use Google.

 

[eight ace]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

No need to do better, really. Why demand of me something you can't achieve yourself? Once again, you assert that rockets may have been fired from boats, that Israeli ships may have been attacked. Lots of maybes there, sunshine. Nothing to indicate it has ever taken place though.

The article I posted described an event that took place and the occurence of that event does not appear to have been challenged by anyone - that is, the destruction of the fishing fleet. Your article asserts, amongst other things, that the fishing fleet was destroyed for a particular reason - that the town was a Hizbollah stronghold. You go on to assert that attacks took place from the boats - although there is nothing other than your bald assertions to support that. Can you grasp the difference?

Finally, I said that your article contained an unsupported reference. Clearly, it did. Do you understand? Can you understand? Sunshine?

As it happens, I support Israel's right to exist and its right to defend itself - and I am no fan of Hizbollah. A mistake commonly made amongst the right is that if one does not support their causes fully, then one fully supports those of their enemy. But as I have said before, I see no reason why the government of Israel should be held to the same standards as Hizbollah. On too many occasions in the past the IDF has been thoroughly unaccountable for a range of atrocities and has excused itself on the basis that it was reasonably acting to defend Israel. I reject the assertion that everything that has been taking place in Lebanon at the moment is in reasonable defence of Israel. This incident with the boats is a small example of that.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yes, a very good analogy, CMT.
I was thinking about the current similarity with the Dresden bombings last week.

It's an interesting analogy to make and I am not sure why Netanyahu made it - it seems to me that he seemed to be saying that "well if you the Brits did it to the Germans, then its OK for us to do it to the Lebanese".

Strange line of thinking - although a nice argumentative tactic to use against the Brits who are critical of bombing of civilian areas, it does not play that well in the broader international community for obvious reasons.

Netanyahu always had a big mouth though, so you might just put it down to that.

 

[eight ace]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

A simple avoidance technique is all.