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Palestine and Israel
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Re: Not Good News From Israel
I wondered about the casualty rates myself, Phantom. Hezbollah (can someone give me the correct spelling? I've seen about 5 different versions) don't wear uniforms, they don't keep records (at least not publicly) about their membership and they hide amongst the general population. How would you be able to tell who was an innocent civilian and who was a member of Hezbollah?Phantom said:
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Of course there are Islamic leaders around the world who say this stuff. Of course the Islamic world is anti-Israel. Of course Al Qaeda uses Israeli actions in the Middle East as a demonstration of Israeli and US oppression of the local populations. It is easy to find Muslim despots who say this stuff.
You would be a fool not to recognise this. You are also a fool if you think Israel was not founded in part because of terrorist actions.
I ask you again, were these the actions of terrorists or freedom fighters?
You are a fool if you think that people who have been disenfranchised from their lands by Israeli invasion/occupation/encroachments are not going to want to fight back.
You said:
"To Islam, that is THE only religion and way of life, and they won't rest until Jewish/Christian/Western "infidels" are wiped off the face of the planet.
It's as simple as that."
I have lived in Muslim countries and I can assure you that that is NOT the view the vast majority of Muslims.
Liverpool said:
Of course there are Islamic leaders around the world who say this stuff. Of course the Islamic world is anti-Israel. Of course Al Qaeda uses Israeli actions in the Middle East as a demonstration of Israeli and US oppression of the local populations. It is easy to find Muslim despots who say this stuff.
You would be a fool not to recognise this. You are also a fool if you think Israel was not founded in part because of terrorist actions.
I ask you again, were these the actions of terrorists or freedom fighters?
You are a fool if you think that people who have been disenfranchised from their lands by Israeli invasion/occupation/encroachments are not going to want to fight back.
You said:
"To Islam, that is THE only religion and way of life, and they won't rest until Jewish/Christian/Western "infidels" are wiped off the face of the planet.
It's as simple as that."
I have lived in Muslim countries and I can assure you that that is NOT the view the vast majority of Muslims.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
But Phantom, why would the Israelis target a UN building that is clearly marked, has been there for a long time and manned by unarmed UN observers? It doesn't make sense to me (as well as a lot of the stuff going on there at the moment)
Phantom said:
But Phantom, why would the Israelis target a UN building that is clearly marked, has been there for a long time and manned by unarmed UN observers? It doesn't make sense to me (as well as a lot of the stuff going on there at the moment)
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Yep.
From what I understand the Hezbollah were firing rockets from a position very close by the UN compound. I suspect that, in keeping with the Hezbollah practice of hiding behind women & children, that they deliberately deployed themselves in close proximity to the UN base. The UN couldn't move the Hezbollah position peacefully. The Israelis asked the UN to remove themselves. The Israelis attacked the Hezbollah position. One stray missile hit the UN compound killing the 4 UN personnel. It is unfortunate, but that happens in war.
I spoke to my daughter again last night. I gave her the option of coming home. She said thanks but she preferred to stay. During some days she is assisting the paramedics, and on others she is assisting to plan and implement programs to entertain & educate the children who have been displaced from the northern Israeli towns & villages. As an 18yo, I think she is the one getting a very quick education about life. I just hope that the negative elements to what she sees does not scar her.
Legends of 1980 said:
Yep.
From what I understand the Hezbollah were firing rockets from a position very close by the UN compound. I suspect that, in keeping with the Hezbollah practice of hiding behind women & children, that they deliberately deployed themselves in close proximity to the UN base. The UN couldn't move the Hezbollah position peacefully. The Israelis asked the UN to remove themselves. The Israelis attacked the Hezbollah position. One stray missile hit the UN compound killing the 4 UN personnel. It is unfortunate, but that happens in war.
I spoke to my daughter again last night. I gave her the option of coming home. She said thanks but she preferred to stay. During some days she is assisting the paramedics, and on others she is assisting to plan and implement programs to entertain & educate the children who have been displaced from the northern Israeli towns & villages. As an 18yo, I think she is the one getting a very quick education about life. I just hope that the negative elements to what she sees does not scar her.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Nope.
Didn't assume that you were of the Islamic faith. You made the statement that you were well read on the history of the politics of the Middle East. I invited you to put your perspective on that history. The best you could do was:
"unfortunately have seen what appeared to be the beginning of a peaceful period in the region go to the complete sh!tter over the last 4 years, culminating in what we have seen in the past 2 weeks."
The substance that you've presented in that statement, into the detailed micro-relationships that have formed the Middle East, is astounding. I could have got more from the back of a cereal box.
So, go join Evo, if you wish. I'll miss Evo's interesting, logical & provoking statements, proven by his knowledge of the Stern Gang & the Irgun, et al. But I won't miss yours.
WesternTiger said:
Nope.
Didn't assume that you were of the Islamic faith. You made the statement that you were well read on the history of the politics of the Middle East. I invited you to put your perspective on that history. The best you could do was:
"unfortunately have seen what appeared to be the beginning of a peaceful period in the region go to the complete sh!tter over the last 4 years, culminating in what we have seen in the past 2 weeks."
The substance that you've presented in that statement, into the detailed micro-relationships that have formed the Middle East, is astounding. I could have got more from the back of a cereal box.
So, go join Evo, if you wish. I'll miss Evo's interesting, logical & provoking statements, proven by his knowledge of the Stern Gang & the Irgun, et al. But I won't miss yours.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
it amazes me that for a military that boasts of surgical like precision a stray missile can be fired into a UN compound. absolutely staggering.
whatever the israelis are selling a lot of people including youself are buying. a magnificent propaganda machine at work
Phantom said:
it amazes me that for a military that boasts of surgical like precision a stray missile can be fired into a UN compound. absolutely staggering.
whatever the israelis are selling a lot of people including youself are buying. a magnificent propaganda machine at work
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Yep. All the international video reports I've seen indicate damage from one missile only. I'm sure if it was intensional that more than 1 missile would have been aimed at the target.
Accidents do happen. In Australia only last week we saw the wheel come off an F1-11. I'd rate the technology of the RAAF pretty highly. Accidents do happen from time to time. It's when they happen regularly I get suspicious.
Yep. All the international video reports I've seen indicate damage from one missile only. I'm sure if it was intensional that more than 1 missile would have been aimed at the target.
Accidents do happen. In Australia only last week we saw the wheel come off an F1-11. I'd rate the technology of the RAAF pretty highly. Accidents do happen from time to time. It's when they happen regularly I get suspicious.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Truth always hurts
Andrew Bolt
July 28, 2006 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19933228-5006029,00.html
There has been a parade of prejudice, but I will show that terrorists were shooting from the UN posts, counting on Israel to not dare shoot back.
THE furious critics agree: Israel is doing this all wrong. Oh, just hear them preach.
Yes, Israel is killing too many civilians in its fight against Lebanon's Hezbollah terror group.
Israel's bombing is "disproportionate" and careless -- even if not 500 people have died in two weeks of allegedly "intense" shelling.
But never mind the facts in that parade of prejudice.
Take yesterday. Papers such as the The Age treated Israel's accidental shelling of a United Nations observer post as a deliberate war crime -- when, as I'll show below, terrorists were shooting from these very posts, thinking Israel would not dare shoot back.
Meanwhile, newspaper cartoonists draw these wicked Jews as Nazis, gloating ambulance bombers and implacable baby-killers.
So ask these critics what Israel should do instead against an Islamist terror statelet next door that is astonishingly well-armed with missiles, and which hides among civilians.
Ask, and these same critics shrug. Instead of fighting like this, Israel should ... No, it should ... Oh, I don't know.
Here's what they really think it should do. It should wait quietly in some no-trouble queue, as Jews did at the gates of Nazi camps, while their neighbours invent what they need to wipe out their country for ever.
Oh, dear. At breakfast my wife warned me to write this coolly, as if the defence of a democracy against the new fascists -- of Jews against a Holocaust -- could be done by parsing here, trimming there, conceding elsewhere and drawing so many half-way lines in sand that when we look up Tel Aviv is gone.
BUT I shall try -- by filling in some facts too rarely reported, and without which Israel is made to look so very bad.
What you are too rarely told is that Hezbollah is a terror group created in part by Iran, funded by Iran and still armed by Iran. And Iran, an Islamist regime, has glowing, smoking plans for Israel.
Its president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has urged Iranians to prepare for martyrdom and has told them Israel must be "wiped off the map".
Hezbollah would like that. As its former leader Hussein Massawi helpfully explained, as if to idiots: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."
With what weapon might Iran -- or its Hezbollah proxies -- strike those Jews?
Well, oil-soaked Iran has for nearly 20 years worked on a secret nuclear program, and Hezbollah provoked this war just as the UN Security Council was debating what sanctions, if any, to impose on Iran to force it to stop.
But as both Israel and Iran both know, the UN and Europe are so morally weak that no one will stop what everyone fully expects is a program to build a nuclear bomb. So tick, tick, tick...
And bang! When Hezbollah fighters killed three Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two more in a cross-border raid a fortnight ago, Israel decided it would wait no longer in this quiet queue for destruction.
It struck back with who knows what plan in mind. To get the soldiers released, it said first. Now its demand is that Hezbollah disarm so never again will it have thousands of rockets -- rockets which one short day may be tipped with worse than high explosives and ball bearings.
It won't work, of course. Israel will buy some months, perhaps, but while Iran's ayatollahs rule and their jihadist creed prospers they will be back. And this oil-thirsty world -- with so many Western countries now with loud Muslim minorities -- will not block it.
Of course, Israel's desperate reaction isn't quite what Hezbollah was counting on.
"The truth is -- let me say this clearly -- we didn't even expect (this) response ... That (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us," whined Mahmoud Komati, deputy chief of Hezbollah's politburo.
It thought that snatching Jewish soldiers -- to later trade their bodies for captured terrorists -- would get just the "proportionate" response it could ignore while it killed more Jews.
But no, Mr Terrorist. Israel won't walk quietly to any grave. Not this time.
Enough context there? Then let me add some to another story that is too often told you without it.
Israel is now painted in the media as so cruel that it barely minds if it kills children with its careless bombs.
Perhaps Channel 9, taking Hezbollah-run tours of the damage in Beirut, has pushed this view hardest.
Said Nine producer Wes Hardman, in Beirut: "To me, a soldier should take every care not to hit civilians, but that's not happening in Lebanon. If Israel think they are precision bombing, then they should be congratulated on their ignorance."
But another newsman on the tour, CNN's Anderson Cooper, was not so ready to echo Hezbollah's talking points. He noted that the reporters on this "heavily orchestrated Hezbollah media event" were allowed only to film what Hezbollah wanted them to, and added:
"Civilian casualties are clearly what Hezbollah wants foreign reporters to focus on. It keeps the attention off them..."
And here's one thing Hezbollah doesn't want attention on: It hides its fighters and weapons among civilians so Israel cannot shoot back without risking killing a child. It shoots its missiles even from schools.
Hear it from UN aid chief Jan Egeland. Egeland got huge TV coverage when he damned Israel's bombing of Beirut. But he got next to none when he added: "Hezbollah, stop this cowardly blending in among women and children...
"I don't think you want to be proud of having many more children and women than armed men (killed)."
But it is proud -- because its media dupes report on such deaths and call Israel, not Hezbollah, inhuman.
See how brilliantly that tactic this week, when Israel bombed a post of the UN International Force in Lebanon, killing four observers.
UN boss Kofi Annan instantly leaped to a conclusion that made no sense at all.
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN observer post," he said.
Israel now wants to kill UN peacekeepers? In God's name, why? But such is the venom against Israel that this slur sped around the world, picked up by gleeful believers from Moscow's Pravda to Mebourne's Age.
It was the disposition to believe the crazy worst of Israel that said so much.
True, we still need to know why Israel ignored warnings that its shells were landing on the UN post.
But even brief research would have found more context -- that not only do Hezbollah fighters fire from behind screens of women and children, but shoot from behind UN observers, counting on Israel not daring to shoot back.
Read for yourself the UNIFIL press releases that have warned how Hezbollah has exploited their posts, and even shot their observers.
Says the UNIFIL press release on the very day of this tragedy: "It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions..." Says the UNIFIL report of 20 July: "Hezbollah firing was also reported from the immediate vicinity of the UN positions in Naquora and Maroun Al Ras areas..." And so on.
Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie said he recently received emails from the Canadian peacekeeper killed at the UN post on Wednesday, who'd told him Hezbollah was using his post as cover, too.
"He was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three metres of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted," Mackenzie said.
"Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favourite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."
So why had Annan left these posts there, where they helped only terrorists?
It's a metaphor for Israel's unwinnable war. Hezbollah and its allies hide behind the UN -- and civilians -- waging terror. And when Israel, a democracy, defends itself, the UN calls it evil. And our media chorus that never have they seen such cruelty.
Israel seems doomed, given this. I fear it is not alone.
Truth always hurts
Andrew Bolt
July 28, 2006 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19933228-5006029,00.html
There has been a parade of prejudice, but I will show that terrorists were shooting from the UN posts, counting on Israel to not dare shoot back.
THE furious critics agree: Israel is doing this all wrong. Oh, just hear them preach.
Yes, Israel is killing too many civilians in its fight against Lebanon's Hezbollah terror group.
Israel's bombing is "disproportionate" and careless -- even if not 500 people have died in two weeks of allegedly "intense" shelling.
But never mind the facts in that parade of prejudice.
Take yesterday. Papers such as the The Age treated Israel's accidental shelling of a United Nations observer post as a deliberate war crime -- when, as I'll show below, terrorists were shooting from these very posts, thinking Israel would not dare shoot back.
Meanwhile, newspaper cartoonists draw these wicked Jews as Nazis, gloating ambulance bombers and implacable baby-killers.
So ask these critics what Israel should do instead against an Islamist terror statelet next door that is astonishingly well-armed with missiles, and which hides among civilians.
Ask, and these same critics shrug. Instead of fighting like this, Israel should ... No, it should ... Oh, I don't know.
Here's what they really think it should do. It should wait quietly in some no-trouble queue, as Jews did at the gates of Nazi camps, while their neighbours invent what they need to wipe out their country for ever.
Oh, dear. At breakfast my wife warned me to write this coolly, as if the defence of a democracy against the new fascists -- of Jews against a Holocaust -- could be done by parsing here, trimming there, conceding elsewhere and drawing so many half-way lines in sand that when we look up Tel Aviv is gone.
BUT I shall try -- by filling in some facts too rarely reported, and without which Israel is made to look so very bad.
What you are too rarely told is that Hezbollah is a terror group created in part by Iran, funded by Iran and still armed by Iran. And Iran, an Islamist regime, has glowing, smoking plans for Israel.
Its president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has urged Iranians to prepare for martyrdom and has told them Israel must be "wiped off the map".
Hezbollah would like that. As its former leader Hussein Massawi helpfully explained, as if to idiots: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."
With what weapon might Iran -- or its Hezbollah proxies -- strike those Jews?
Well, oil-soaked Iran has for nearly 20 years worked on a secret nuclear program, and Hezbollah provoked this war just as the UN Security Council was debating what sanctions, if any, to impose on Iran to force it to stop.
But as both Israel and Iran both know, the UN and Europe are so morally weak that no one will stop what everyone fully expects is a program to build a nuclear bomb. So tick, tick, tick...
And bang! When Hezbollah fighters killed three Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two more in a cross-border raid a fortnight ago, Israel decided it would wait no longer in this quiet queue for destruction.
It struck back with who knows what plan in mind. To get the soldiers released, it said first. Now its demand is that Hezbollah disarm so never again will it have thousands of rockets -- rockets which one short day may be tipped with worse than high explosives and ball bearings.
It won't work, of course. Israel will buy some months, perhaps, but while Iran's ayatollahs rule and their jihadist creed prospers they will be back. And this oil-thirsty world -- with so many Western countries now with loud Muslim minorities -- will not block it.
Of course, Israel's desperate reaction isn't quite what Hezbollah was counting on.
"The truth is -- let me say this clearly -- we didn't even expect (this) response ... That (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us," whined Mahmoud Komati, deputy chief of Hezbollah's politburo.
It thought that snatching Jewish soldiers -- to later trade their bodies for captured terrorists -- would get just the "proportionate" response it could ignore while it killed more Jews.
But no, Mr Terrorist. Israel won't walk quietly to any grave. Not this time.
Enough context there? Then let me add some to another story that is too often told you without it.
Israel is now painted in the media as so cruel that it barely minds if it kills children with its careless bombs.
Perhaps Channel 9, taking Hezbollah-run tours of the damage in Beirut, has pushed this view hardest.
Said Nine producer Wes Hardman, in Beirut: "To me, a soldier should take every care not to hit civilians, but that's not happening in Lebanon. If Israel think they are precision bombing, then they should be congratulated on their ignorance."
But another newsman on the tour, CNN's Anderson Cooper, was not so ready to echo Hezbollah's talking points. He noted that the reporters on this "heavily orchestrated Hezbollah media event" were allowed only to film what Hezbollah wanted them to, and added:
"Civilian casualties are clearly what Hezbollah wants foreign reporters to focus on. It keeps the attention off them..."
And here's one thing Hezbollah doesn't want attention on: It hides its fighters and weapons among civilians so Israel cannot shoot back without risking killing a child. It shoots its missiles even from schools.
Hear it from UN aid chief Jan Egeland. Egeland got huge TV coverage when he damned Israel's bombing of Beirut. But he got next to none when he added: "Hezbollah, stop this cowardly blending in among women and children...
"I don't think you want to be proud of having many more children and women than armed men (killed)."
But it is proud -- because its media dupes report on such deaths and call Israel, not Hezbollah, inhuman.
See how brilliantly that tactic this week, when Israel bombed a post of the UN International Force in Lebanon, killing four observers.
UN boss Kofi Annan instantly leaped to a conclusion that made no sense at all.
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN observer post," he said.
Israel now wants to kill UN peacekeepers? In God's name, why? But such is the venom against Israel that this slur sped around the world, picked up by gleeful believers from Moscow's Pravda to Mebourne's Age.
It was the disposition to believe the crazy worst of Israel that said so much.
True, we still need to know why Israel ignored warnings that its shells were landing on the UN post.
But even brief research would have found more context -- that not only do Hezbollah fighters fire from behind screens of women and children, but shoot from behind UN observers, counting on Israel not daring to shoot back.
Read for yourself the UNIFIL press releases that have warned how Hezbollah has exploited their posts, and even shot their observers.
Says the UNIFIL press release on the very day of this tragedy: "It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions..." Says the UNIFIL report of 20 July: "Hezbollah firing was also reported from the immediate vicinity of the UN positions in Naquora and Maroun Al Ras areas..." And so on.
Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie said he recently received emails from the Canadian peacekeeper killed at the UN post on Wednesday, who'd told him Hezbollah was using his post as cover, too.
"He was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three metres of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted," Mackenzie said.
"Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favourite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."
So why had Annan left these posts there, where they helped only terrorists?
It's a metaphor for Israel's unwinnable war. Hezbollah and its allies hide behind the UN -- and civilians -- waging terror. And when Israel, a democracy, defends itself, the UN calls it evil. And our media chorus that never have they seen such cruelty.
Israel seems doomed, given this. I fear it is not alone.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Truth hurts doesn't it. And when the Hezbollah finish with the Jews in Israel, the next on the list will be the Druze. How do you feel about that, L&B?
I suppose by then all your family will be safe in Australia the great refuge.
Politics 101:
"Always discredit the creator of any opinion you don't like."
You don't like the truth, L&B?
LidsandBling said:
Truth hurts doesn't it. And when the Hezbollah finish with the Jews in Israel, the next on the list will be the Druze. How do you feel about that, L&B?
I suppose by then all your family will be safe in Australia the great refuge.
Politics 101:
"Always discredit the creator of any opinion you don't like."
You don't like the truth, L&B?
Re: Not Good News From Israel
as i said i dont bother reading anything he writes. i wouldn't waste my time so i am not sure of the supposed truth he speaks so wouldn't know if it hurts. andrew bolt is a joke regardless of his opinion on this conflict. he has no credibility at all. he is a shock journalist, comments to create controversy, the HS knows it and so does everyone else. but he sells them papers. thats what matters.
hezbollah have tried to do a job on the druze a long time ago. they have had enough chances and have failed everytime. they dont have the spirit of the druze and never will.
you must understand something michael, i may not like israel or the foundations on which the state was begun and i certainly dont like what they are doing to lebanon and the way they are doing it but i dont like or subscribe to the beliefs of hezbollah or any other extremist faction but i will always back a fellow countryman when they are defending my homeland
Phantom said:
as i said i dont bother reading anything he writes. i wouldn't waste my time so i am not sure of the supposed truth he speaks so wouldn't know if it hurts. andrew bolt is a joke regardless of his opinion on this conflict. he has no credibility at all. he is a shock journalist, comments to create controversy, the HS knows it and so does everyone else. but he sells them papers. thats what matters.
hezbollah have tried to do a job on the druze a long time ago. they have had enough chances and have failed everytime. they dont have the spirit of the druze and never will.
you must understand something michael, i may not like israel or the foundations on which the state was begun and i certainly dont like what they are doing to lebanon and the way they are doing it but i dont like or subscribe to the beliefs of hezbollah or any other extremist faction but i will always back a fellow countryman when they are defending my homeland
Re: Not Good News From Israel
The post was clearly marked. It had existed in the same place for a long time. The israelis were warned about it beforehand. They had shelled the post with artillery for several hours before obliterating it with an aerial bomb. Furthermore, the IDF has form for this sort of thing stretching all the way back to the USS Liberty. If this strike wasn't intentional, it was grossly negligent. It was clearly of no account to the IDF that the post was occupied by the UN observers. There is absolutely no excuse for it and the Israeli behaviour was disgraceful. And Phantom, you can do much better than Andrew Bolt. Would you rely on him for information at any other time?
The post was clearly marked. It had existed in the same place for a long time. The israelis were warned about it beforehand. They had shelled the post with artillery for several hours before obliterating it with an aerial bomb. Furthermore, the IDF has form for this sort of thing stretching all the way back to the USS Liberty. If this strike wasn't intentional, it was grossly negligent. It was clearly of no account to the IDF that the post was occupied by the UN observers. There is absolutely no excuse for it and the Israeli behaviour was disgraceful. And Phantom, you can do much better than Andrew Bolt. Would you rely on him for information at any other time?
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Thanks Andy,
Well, that's the Age & the Hun publishing the same thing.
War is grey, no one party to blame, but victims on all sides.
Self preservation seems to be the key.
As said, the UN should have withdrawn itself long ago.
Seems the UN is impotent in every respect.
My memory tells me that history may be repeating itself.
Didn't the same thing happen to the League of Nations, 60 years ago?
Ah well. Have a nice weekend everybody.
Thanks Andy,
Well, that's the Age & the Hun publishing the same thing.
War is grey, no one party to blame, but victims on all sides.
Self preservation seems to be the key.
As said, the UN should have withdrawn itself long ago.
Seems the UN is impotent in every respect.
My memory tells me that history may be repeating itself.
Didn't the same thing happen to the League of Nations, 60 years ago?
Ah well. Have a nice weekend everybody.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Does anyone really think that if the 7 million Israelis just up and left this would alter the situation at all? The ensuing fight between the arab nations over what was once Israel would make this look like a Sunday school picnic.
Does anyone really think that if the 7 million Israelis just up and left this would alter the situation at all? The ensuing fight between the arab nations over what was once Israel would make this look like a Sunday school picnic.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Gee liverpool, youve definately made up some story. If you read the text PROPERLY you'll notice that its the state of Israel that the Palestinians are against.
The state of Israel was created for all the misplaced Jews in Europe after WWII. Palestinians in their country (Palestine) were told to move out to refugee camps in the hills and the Gaza Strip. They were told that the Civil War would be sorted and they'd be able to come back to their homes when its over. They watched on as the weeks went by, as plane after plane of Jewish settlers came in from Europe and settled into their houses on their land. They're still there now, where they were put almost 60 years ago.
I find it very amusing that Jews are able to waltz in and take over another persons house and the rest of the world EXPECTS that person not to retaliate or feel duped. I felt sorry for the Jews after the WWII atrocities but you know what, if thats all they learnt from it then they deserve a life of continually looking over there shoulders as far as im concerned.
Whichever story you wanna concoct to paint Islam and Muslims as some evil entity is utter garbage. Fortunately for you, America will soon take over the entire Middle East and it will show them who the real god is (you know the one GWB refers to in every speech, the one with the blonde hair and blue eyes) and bring Democracy and Freedom to their countries. Oh and if they don't like it, they'll just kill them!!!
Liverpool said:
Gee liverpool, youve definately made up some story. If you read the text PROPERLY you'll notice that its the state of Israel that the Palestinians are against.
The state of Israel was created for all the misplaced Jews in Europe after WWII. Palestinians in their country (Palestine) were told to move out to refugee camps in the hills and the Gaza Strip. They were told that the Civil War would be sorted and they'd be able to come back to their homes when its over. They watched on as the weeks went by, as plane after plane of Jewish settlers came in from Europe and settled into their houses on their land. They're still there now, where they were put almost 60 years ago.
I find it very amusing that Jews are able to waltz in and take over another persons house and the rest of the world EXPECTS that person not to retaliate or feel duped. I felt sorry for the Jews after the WWII atrocities but you know what, if thats all they learnt from it then they deserve a life of continually looking over there shoulders as far as im concerned.
Whichever story you wanna concoct to paint Islam and Muslims as some evil entity is utter garbage. Fortunately for you, America will soon take over the entire Middle East and it will show them who the real god is (you know the one GWB refers to in every speech, the one with the blonde hair and blue eyes) and bring Democracy and Freedom to their countries. Oh and if they don't like it, they'll just kill them!!!
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Blx,
And if you read my post properly, you would realise that this isn't about Palestine being against the state of Israel, as Bin Laden, the Iranian Prime Minister, and the Malaysian Prime Minister are not Palestinian...the only thing they all have in common is that they are Islam.
But please feel free to live in your "poor Islams getting persecuted" world...I leave you with this:
The day will come and we shall rule America The day will come and we shall rule Britain, we shall rule the entire world, except the Jews. The Jews will not live under our rule agreeably permanently, since they have been treacherous in nature throughout history. A day will come when all shall rest from the Jews, even the tree and the stone, which have suffered from them. Listen to your Beloved [Muhammad], who tells you about the most dire end of the Jews. The tree and the stone want the Muslim to bring every Jew to his end. You all know the Hadith."
Sheikh Ibrahim Mudayris, Friday Sermon, PA TV, May 13, 2005
and this:
[The Israelites] have spread all over the world. Now Allah gathers them in this land. He brings them in groups from all countries of the world, in order to fulfill Allah's universal law: Judgment Day will come when Muslims fight the Jews, and the stone and the tree say: Oh, Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there's a Jew behind me, come and kill him. If the Jews were scattered throughout the world, how could we find them in order to fight them? The war between us and the Jews is a religious war. This is not a war over a path, a land or anything like that. The part of the Koran that was given at Mecca, before the Muslim even met the Jews, each chapter reveals who the Jews really are, their perversity and the danger they present. Our war with them is a religious war, and we must arm the nation with the weapon of faith.
UAE Professor Mustafa Muslim, Al-Majd TV Saudi Arabia June 19, 2005
Now, are these quotes just me making up stories and utter garbage again....or would you like to listen to what the Islams are actually saying??? :
blx said:
Blx,
And if you read my post properly, you would realise that this isn't about Palestine being against the state of Israel, as Bin Laden, the Iranian Prime Minister, and the Malaysian Prime Minister are not Palestinian...the only thing they all have in common is that they are Islam.
But please feel free to live in your "poor Islams getting persecuted" world...I leave you with this:
The day will come and we shall rule America The day will come and we shall rule Britain, we shall rule the entire world, except the Jews. The Jews will not live under our rule agreeably permanently, since they have been treacherous in nature throughout history. A day will come when all shall rest from the Jews, even the tree and the stone, which have suffered from them. Listen to your Beloved [Muhammad], who tells you about the most dire end of the Jews. The tree and the stone want the Muslim to bring every Jew to his end. You all know the Hadith."
Sheikh Ibrahim Mudayris, Friday Sermon, PA TV, May 13, 2005
and this:
[The Israelites] have spread all over the world. Now Allah gathers them in this land. He brings them in groups from all countries of the world, in order to fulfill Allah's universal law: Judgment Day will come when Muslims fight the Jews, and the stone and the tree say: Oh, Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there's a Jew behind me, come and kill him. If the Jews were scattered throughout the world, how could we find them in order to fight them? The war between us and the Jews is a religious war. This is not a war over a path, a land or anything like that. The part of the Koran that was given at Mecca, before the Muslim even met the Jews, each chapter reveals who the Jews really are, their perversity and the danger they present. Our war with them is a religious war, and we must arm the nation with the weapon of faith.
UAE Professor Mustafa Muslim, Al-Majd TV Saudi Arabia June 19, 2005
Now, are these quotes just me making up stories and utter garbage again....or would you like to listen to what the Islams are actually saying??? :
Re: Not Good News From Israel
You are using the extremists and radicals' beliefs as a general example to tar all muslims with the same brush Liverpool.
Hitler masqueraded as a christian,am I as extreme or radical as he was because we shared christianity??
You are using the extremists and radicals' beliefs as a general example to tar all muslims with the same brush Liverpool.
Hitler masqueraded as a christian,am I as extreme or radical as he was because we shared christianity??
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