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Palestine and Israel
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Re: Not Good News From Israel
I was only joking. I feel the need to apologise to you eight ace. I have been extremely stressed of late and have had some major family problems and hit out at you incorrectly. I am sorry for having done this.
eight ace said:
I was only joking. I feel the need to apologise to you eight ace. I have been extremely stressed of late and have had some major family problems and hit out at you incorrectly. I am sorry for having done this.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
The problem with the USA's "pro-democracy" approach is that they think it will solve all the problems. No way! In Palestine Hamas was elected over Fattah, the more moderate party - Bush, Blair etc immediately condemned the democratically elected government because Hamas happens to be very anti-Israel. The idea that a democratic Middle East will necessarily be a more friendly place is a naive assumption.
Its interesting that Bush and Blair are all for democracy, but only if the elected government agrees with their own views.
Phantom said:
The problem with the USA's "pro-democracy" approach is that they think it will solve all the problems. No way! In Palestine Hamas was elected over Fattah, the more moderate party - Bush, Blair etc immediately condemned the democratically elected government because Hamas happens to be very anti-Israel. The idea that a democratic Middle East will necessarily be a more friendly place is a naive assumption.
Its interesting that Bush and Blair are all for democracy, but only if the elected government agrees with their own views.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
The slogan should have been.......'The Fattah the better' That surely would have got them elected?
antman said:
The slogan should have been.......'The Fattah the better' That surely would have got them elected?
Re: Not Good News From Israel
blx,
Being ropable doesn't justify suicide-bombings on buses, etc.....ike I said to Evo a couple of days ago...all this "one man's freedom fighter, is another man's terrorist" is a load of bollocks, and just a saying to try and justify why terrorists are doing what they are doing.
The thing is, even today, if we made a country, and called it "Palestine", and let them rule themselves....there still would be trouble.
Their sole aim is the eradication of Israel/Jews....thats all.
USA could pull out of Iraq, the Taliban could be left to run Afghanistan, Palestine could be left as a free, independent country, Hussein could be restored as leader of Iraq.....but it still wouldn't be enough.
To Islam, that is THE only religion and way of life, and they won't rest until Jewish/Christian/Western "infidels" are wiped off the face of the planet.
It's as simple as that.
blx said:
blx,
Being ropable doesn't justify suicide-bombings on buses, etc.....ike I said to Evo a couple of days ago...all this "one man's freedom fighter, is another man's terrorist" is a load of bollocks, and just a saying to try and justify why terrorists are doing what they are doing.
The thing is, even today, if we made a country, and called it "Palestine", and let them rule themselves....there still would be trouble.
Their sole aim is the eradication of Israel/Jews....thats all.
USA could pull out of Iraq, the Taliban could be left to run Afghanistan, Palestine could be left as a free, independent country, Hussein could be restored as leader of Iraq.....but it still wouldn't be enough.
To Islam, that is THE only religion and way of life, and they won't rest until Jewish/Christian/Western "infidels" are wiped off the face of the planet.
It's as simple as that.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
If there is nothing wrong with it Phantom why did you mention it? The fact that they accepted the benefits of Australia’s social security system has nothing to do with this topic.
Secondly Phantom read my post again! I did not question your informative take on the chronological history of the Middle East. I questioned your response to my post (#130).
I think you may have made an assumption that I am of the Islamic faith Phantom? Well I am an atheist of Anglo descent. I am well read on the recent history of the middle east and unfortunately have seen what appeared to be the beginning of a peaceful period in the region go to the complete shitter over the last 4 years, culminating in what we have seen in the past 2 weeks.
I think I will join Evo in leaving this thread. Too many people on here take what they see on Ch 9 news or read in the Murdoch press as gospel!
Phantom said:
If there is nothing wrong with it Phantom why did you mention it? The fact that they accepted the benefits of Australia’s social security system has nothing to do with this topic.
Secondly Phantom read my post again! I did not question your informative take on the chronological history of the Middle East. I questioned your response to my post (#130).
I think you may have made an assumption that I am of the Islamic faith Phantom? Well I am an atheist of Anglo descent. I am well read on the recent history of the middle east and unfortunately have seen what appeared to be the beginning of a peaceful period in the region go to the complete shitter over the last 4 years, culminating in what we have seen in the past 2 weeks.
I think I will join Evo in leaving this thread. Too many people on here take what they see on Ch 9 news or read in the Murdoch press as gospel!
Re: Not Good News From Israel
The Zionists themselves took terrorist actions prior to the formation of Israel. Were they terrorists or freedom fighters?
It is definitely not as simple as that. Your post demonstrates ignorance of history and ignorance of Islam.
Liverpool said:
The Zionists themselves took terrorist actions prior to the formation of Israel. Were they terrorists or freedom fighters?
Liverpool said:
It is definitely not as simple as that. Your post demonstrates ignorance of history and ignorance of Islam.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Antman,
Islamic leaders admit it themselves that eliminating Israel is what their aim is....I've put on this very thread what the Prime Minister of Iran has publicly said, in front of a packed media at a university in Iran..here it is again in case you forgot:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
Bin-Laden's view:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
The Malaysian Prime Minister said this in 2003:
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad today told a summit of Islamic leaders that "Jews rule the world by proxy" and the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite and use nonviolent means for a "final victory."
"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to fight and die for them."
From iran again:
One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".
"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm
Views from Hamas and their charter:
http://pnews.org/ArT/EuR/HaCh.shtml
And Hezbollah:
Over its two decades, Hezbollah has evolved into a movement with thousands of trained guerrillas, members of the Lebanese parliament and a dynamic welfare program benefiting thousands of Lebanese people. They enjoy considerable support in Lebanon both because their rage against Israel is popular and because their social programs are effective in meeting ground level needs. Since Israel is no longer present in Lebanon, Hezbollah now talks about the elimination of Israel itself calling all of Israel "occupied territory" that has to be "liberated" for Islam.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_hezbollah.php
and I could find more anti-Israel/anti-Jew/anti-Western doctrine from all around the world from Islamic leaders and muftis.
Antman,
I don't think that's me being ignorant.....just taking notice of what Islams themselves are saying!
Maybe you are the ignorant one for not listening to what Islams are saying?
Antman,
Islamic leaders admit it themselves that eliminating Israel is what their aim is....I've put on this very thread what the Prime Minister of Iran has publicly said, in front of a packed media at a university in Iran..here it is again in case you forgot:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
Bin-Laden's view:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
The Malaysian Prime Minister said this in 2003:
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad today told a summit of Islamic leaders that "Jews rule the world by proxy" and the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite and use nonviolent means for a "final victory."
"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to fight and die for them."
From iran again:
One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".
"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm
Views from Hamas and their charter:
http://pnews.org/ArT/EuR/HaCh.shtml
And Hezbollah:
Over its two decades, Hezbollah has evolved into a movement with thousands of trained guerrillas, members of the Lebanese parliament and a dynamic welfare program benefiting thousands of Lebanese people. They enjoy considerable support in Lebanon both because their rage against Israel is popular and because their social programs are effective in meeting ground level needs. Since Israel is no longer present in Lebanon, Hezbollah now talks about the elimination of Israel itself calling all of Israel "occupied territory" that has to be "liberated" for Islam.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_hezbollah.php
and I could find more anti-Israel/anti-Jew/anti-Western doctrine from all around the world from Islamic leaders and muftis.
Antman,
I don't think that's me being ignorant.....just taking notice of what Islams themselves are saying!
Maybe you are the ignorant one for not listening to what Islams are saying?
Re: Not Good News From Israel
On SBS tonight that Israel are seriously thinking about a deeper incurgence into Lebannon and any person in those cities will be counted as enemy.
If this is true what kind of world are we living in - sorry israel, but you have now lost me in your thoughtless tactics in this war. You have killed so many already and now you come out with such comments. What comes around goes around as far as im concerned.
On SBS tonight that Israel are seriously thinking about a deeper incurgence into Lebannon and any person in those cities will be counted as enemy.
If this is true what kind of world are we living in - sorry israel, but you have now lost me in your thoughtless tactics in this war. You have killed so many already and now you come out with such comments. What comes around goes around as far as im concerned.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Yep. Spoke to my daughter again tonight. I think it's going to get even bigger.
Apparently in the Rome conference no one could make any guarantees about Hezbollah adhering to a cease fire.
Israel now see no solution until Hezbollah are completely and utterly routed.
Yep. Spoke to my daughter again tonight. I think it's going to get even bigger.
Apparently in the Rome conference no one could make any guarantees about Hezbollah adhering to a cease fire.
Israel now see no solution until Hezbollah are completely and utterly routed.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
its common knowledge that muslims dont like the jews. they have never made an effort to hide it. tell us something we dont know.
actually tell me this, how were jew terrorists post ww2 different to the palestinian suicide bombers of today?
it worked back in the 40's for a handful of jews, the palestinians would have liked their chances.
Liverpool said:
its common knowledge that muslims dont like the jews. they have never made an effort to hide it. tell us something we dont know.
actually tell me this, how were jew terrorists post ww2 different to the palestinian suicide bombers of today?
it worked back in the 40's for a handful of jews, the palestinians would have liked their chances.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
This is why both sides see it as a fight to the death.
BTW, just so everyone knows, Hezbollah are counting their fighters as civilians. Of the 24 Hezbollahs killed against the 9 Israeli soldiers killed, all of the 24 were males armed for battle. It appears an extremely large number of what Hezbollah have claimed as civilian deaths are ununiformed fighters. Hiding behind women & children makes it worse.
As they used to say in the old days, how can you identify an Arab tank? It has only 1 forward gear, slow, but 3 reverse gears, fast, faster & faster still.
Also, it is coming out now that the UN were prewarned by the Israelis of where they were going to strike. The UN soldiers were given good warning to leave the area. They remained at their own risk. Don't know why.
LidsandBling said:
This is why both sides see it as a fight to the death.
BTW, just so everyone knows, Hezbollah are counting their fighters as civilians. Of the 24 Hezbollahs killed against the 9 Israeli soldiers killed, all of the 24 were males armed for battle. It appears an extremely large number of what Hezbollah have claimed as civilian deaths are ununiformed fighters. Hiding behind women & children makes it worse.
As they used to say in the old days, how can you identify an Arab tank? It has only 1 forward gear, slow, but 3 reverse gears, fast, faster & faster still.
Also, it is coming out now that the UN were prewarned by the Israelis of where they were going to strike. The UN soldiers were given good warning to leave the area. They remained at their own risk. Don't know why.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Complicated mess.
Gotta love religion. :spin
I'm with you.Redford said:
Complicated mess.
Gotta love religion. :spin
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