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Palestine and Israel

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I do like what is produced by Redacted and Double Down News. Both groups have no allegiance or affiliation with anyone or anything, they both receive an income through many individuals donating and the revenue from having ads on their channel. Both of them get stuck into whoever they believe is in the wrong, after doing some actual research and looking at facts.

With that said, he is an interesting piece on what took place on, and very soon after, Oct 7th.

Once again, this is posted for those who might find real journalism on this time interesting, not to open discussion with the zionist apologists and wannabees.

 
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I do like what is produced by Redacted and Double Down News. Both groups have no allegiance or affiliation with anyone or anything, they both receive an income through many individuals donating and the revenue from having ads on their channel. Both of them get stuck into whoever they believe is in the wrong, after doing some actual research and looking at facts.

With that said, he is an interesting piece on what took place on, and very soon after, Oct 7th.

Once again, this is posted for those who might find real journalism on this time interesting, not to open discussion with the zionist apologists and wannabees.

“ The Palestinians didn’t pick their occupier who’s citizens happen to be Jewish”
“ that doesn’t make them anti-Semitic”
“ are we really going to say that if their occupiers were Greeks or Italians they wouldn’t be fighting back, of course we can’t”

Thanks for posting K3. What so many have said , Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder, what they did cannot be supported. However the evidence of beheading of babies, mass rape, burning alive of children in ovens etc simply does not exist.
 
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It is not a religious war because palestinian nationhood and self determination has nothing to do with religion. People/groups will always try and involve religion, Israel does and some Arab states do but at its crux it is about territory and the rights of a group of people removed from their land. Israel exists and will continue to exist and that it isn't is only really spoken about by extremists these days. We are talking now about the land they continue to take away and have taken away in the last 30 years or so.
I agree it’s primarily about land. But I also believe since 1948 it has become religious as well. I think in this case they go hand in hand.
Especially when so many chant “Death to all Jews” even Hamas “constitution” spells that out quite clearly. Them being the last elected government of Gaza enforces the fact that it’s not just land, but the Israeli people as well. They don’t want to coexist with any Jews, especially I. Israel. They follow that doctrine of anti West, anti America, anti Israel, anti Jew. Their actions speak for themselves.
To say it’s only about land gives to the lie that it’s only about land. It’s not! it never has, never will be.

I know they have taken away land. I know for some people, that is all it’s about for them. The land. But they would be the “observers” not the actual Palestinian or Israeli people .
Again you have missed the point but I have made it so many times I am not going to do so again.
Obviously I must have.
This also misses the point which is that the fact that the majority of the people in Israel are jewish is not the reason why I support the rights of the Palestinians
Once again, I don’t believe I’ve ever accused you of that
. ( Does the fact that Australia is a majority anglo/celts mean we are an anglo/celt state?)
Bit silly . We weren’t founded after being persecuted for our religious beliefs. Irish Catholics being an exception.
But at one point we could/ would have been described as a Christian nation. Maybe we still are, but with respect to Australia being more multicultural, with freedom of religion etc more prevalent during the last few decades.
This whole last set of conversations was based on a suggestion/statement that the fact that jews make up the majority of the Israeli population means that those who do not support the actions of the State of Israel are doing so because their population is majority jewish and is rooted in racism towards jews.
Not from me, I asked a simple question. If people want to refer to the State of Israel as some sort of separate entity that’s their prerogative. But we all know, even those that refuse to acknowledge the fact it is a Jewish State.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as a polity to serve as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state", a term that also appeared in the United Nations Partition Plan for British Palestine in 1947. The related term of "Jewish and democratic state" dates from a 1992 legislation by Israel's Knesset.


It doesn’t really matter what people want to refer to it as.. people could call it the Stae of David and BeerSheba, that doesn’t make it so.
it is what it is.
Its actually The Nation State of the Jewish People.

I completely reject that premise
I have never accused you of racism. At least I don’t think I have.
But anyway. Your point after so much typing is
…you aren’t a racist by any stretch of the imagination. You support Palestinians getting their land back and being treated humanely and with respect.
I think I’ve got that right. And I respect your point of view and your beliefs.

Others may not share your beliefs. Just as many don’t share mine

Some on both sides maybe are racists. I’ve been accused as such. Which I couldn’t care less about as those same accusers hold little weight on my conscience.

Some are anti Arab, some are anti muslim, I’ve even seen the term “brown”. “White, European
Jew” some are anti brown, some are anti white European Jew” or anti white, anti European, anti Jew.
A lot can’t make up their mind they’re so confused. They just go off YouTube, rwnj media, lwnj media or something else like gays for Palestine ( I don’t know who organises some of these groups) half couldnt Point to Gaza, Israel, the WB or any of the area they’ve become 2 minute experts on. The history, culture, land, people or whatever.

Everyone has their own opinions, beliefs and pov. Not everyone is right of course. They can’t all be.
(Present company excepted of course 😁)
But there might be a kernel of their own truth there somewhere.
 
“ The Palestinians didn’t pick their occupier who’s citizens happen to be Jewish”
“ that doesn’t make them anti-Semitic”
“ are we really going to say that if their occupiers were Greeks or Italians they wouldn’t be fighting back, of course we can’t”

Thanks for posting K3. What so many have said , Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder, what they did cannot be supported. However the evidence of beheading of babies, mass rape, burning alive of children in ovens etc simply does not exist.
IMO the worse...er part of the horrible accusations is that the people who made, and spread them, KNOW them to be false. It is absolutely shameful and disgusting!

Hopefully, more and more people get to see the truths that are out there, instead of just falling for the absolutely massive amount of propaganda that is produced by all sides.

Glad you found the video interesting mate.
 
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“ The Palestinians didn’t pick their occupier who’s citizens happen to be Jewish”
“ that doesn’t make them anti-Semitic”
“ are we really going to say that if their occupiers were Greeks or Italians they wouldn’t be fighting back, of course we can’t”
No just read Hamas “Constitution” does it mention “death to all Greeks or Italians”?
*smile* me, you blokes are becoming a joke with all the excuses you’re now trotting out to be seen as non racists.
To bastardise a saying
”The lady doth protest too much, I think”
Thanks for posting K3. What so many have said , Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder, what they did cannot be supported.
Oh good old K3 still trawling for a pro Palestinian, anti Israeli October 7 video clip. Bravo. This director’s opinion and this clip have been put to rest by the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If people are interested in the truth rather than trying to find bits and pieces to support their own pov. As dumb as it is.

Oh the old Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder. The usual acknowledgement before the next discourse.

However the evidence of beheading of babies, mass rape, burning alive of children in ovens etc simply does not exist.

Hamas are only naughty boys who got a little carried away murdering 1200 and kidnapping 240 more. They’re just misunderstood

But “I haven’t seen the evidence with my own eyes of beheadings of babies, mass rape” blah blah blah so it simply doesn’t exist.
What do you want a videos of women being raped? Beheaded babies, why only babies? burnt babies in ovens? Eye witness accounts not good enough for you?
Just how many make an “mass rape” ? 3, , 5, 10, 20, 50.

What very poor post. I expected better, but maybe the real person and beliefs are being exposed

Obviously it isn’t just about a territorial land dispute. It may have been once, but you sure put that to rest.

I might as well just say
Well I haven't seen any evidence of 30,000 dead bodies in Gaza on the news, so obviously it simply hasn’t happened Only a few. So the death toll has been highly exaggerated
I haven’t seen any evidence of Palestinian land titles in the WB where apartments are being built. So obviously that land is vacant and no one owns it.
I haven't seen any evidence of terrorists or murderers in Israeli jails so obviously there are none
I haven’t seen any evidence of any innocent man, woman or child being held by Israeli authorities . So there are none
 
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U.N. report: ‘Convincing’ information Hamas raped, tortured hostages​


A team of United Nations experts tasked with gathering information on sexual violence linked to Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel found “reasonable grounds to believe” that some victims were sexually assaulted, including rape and gang rape, according to a U.N. report released Monday.

“In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed,” a press release announcing the report’s findings said. “The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations.”

The 23-page report said the team also found “clear and convincing information” that some of the women and children taken back to Gaza that day by Hamas as hostages were subjected to “rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.” There were “reasonable grounds to believe,” it said, “that this violence may be ongoing.”
 
Read this. I dare you.

‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7​

A Times investigation uncovered new details showing a pattern of rape, mutilation and extreme brutality against women in the attacks on Israel.
At first, she was known simply as “the woman in the black dress.”

In a grainy video, you can see her, lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread, vagina exposed. Her face is burned beyond recognition and her right hand covers her eyes.

The video was shot in the early hours of Oct. 8 by a woman searching for a missing friend at the site of the rave in southern Israel where, the day before, Hamas terrorists massacred hundreds of young Israelis.

The video went viral, with thousands of people responding, desperate to know if the woman in the black dress was their missing friend, sister or daughter.

One family knew exactly who she was — Gal Abdush, mother of two from a working-class town in central Israel, who disappeared from the rave that night with her husband.

As the terrorists closed in on her, trapped on a highway in a line of cars of people trying to flee the party, she sent one final WhatsApp message to her family: “You don’t understand.”

Based largely on the video evidence — which was verified by The New York Times — Israeli police officials said they believed that Ms. Abdush was raped, and she has become a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the Oct. 7 attacks.

Israeli officials say that everywhere Hamas terrorists struck — the rave, the military bases along the Gaza border and the kibbutzim — they brutalized women.

A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.

Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.


Four witnesses described in graphic detail seeing women raped and killed at two different places along Route 232, the same highway where Ms. Abdush’s half-naked body was found sprawled on the road at a third location.

And The Times interviewed several soldiers and volunteer medics who together described finding more than 30 bodies of women and girls in and around the rave site and in two kibbutzim in a similar state as Ms. Abdush’s — legs spread, clothes torn off, signs of abuse in their genital areas.
 
And this.

UN experts say grounds to believe rape occurred in Hamas attack on Israel​


The Palestinian group Hamas, which governs Gaza, has repeatedly denied allegations its fighters committed acts of sexual violence during the attacks.

“Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including genital mutilation, sexualised torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, was also gathered,” read the 24-page UN report.

“The mission team found clear and convincing information that some hostages taken to Gaza have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing,” the report also said.

Even in Al jafuckingzeera
 

U.N. finds 'clear and convincing' information that hostages have been raped in Gaza.​

A senior United Nations official found “clear and convincing” information that hostages have been raped and sexually abused in Gaza and “reasonable grounds” to believe sexual violence, including rape and gang rape, occurred during the Oct. 7 terrorist attack led by Hamas.

“Based on the information it gathered, the mission team found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment has been committed against hostages," the U.N. said in a report, adding that it "has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing against those still held in captivity.”


Pramila Patten, the secretary-general’s special representative on sexual violence in conflict, said in the 23-page report that she was unable to determine the exact scope of sexual violence that occurred Oct. 7. She concluded that finding the precise number of sexual assaults and identifying the perpetrators of such crimes would require a full-fledged investigation and “may take months or years to emerge.”
“In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses,” the U.N. said in a news release Monday.

The U.N. report said it has “reasonable grounds to believe” that at least five rapes occurred during the Oct. 7 attack, in which members of Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other armed groups also took part. Patten said her team heard credible accounts of at least two rapes of corpses at the Nova music festival and in the surrounding area, one rape outside a bomb shelter at the entrance to kibbutz Re’im and two on Road 232, which runs parallel to the Gaza Strip.


“Based on the examination of available information, including credible statements by eyewitnesses, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of rape, including gang rape, occurred in and around the Nova festival site during the 7 October attacks,” the report states. “Credible information was obtained regarding multiple incidents whereby victims were subjected to rape and then killed. There are further accounts of individuals who witnessed at least two incidents of rape of corpses of women.”

U.N. officials said the reported rape of a woman outside a bomb shelter at the entrance of kibbutz Re’im was corroborated by witness testimonies and digital material. Patten was unable to verify reports of sexual violence at kibbutz Be’eri, where Israeli officials say more than 100 people were killed.

More than 1,200 people died in the attack, according to Israeli officials. The subsequent Israeli offensive against Hamas has killed more 30,000 people in Gaza, according to the Hamas-run Health Ministry there.

During her trip, Patten also visited the West Bank city of Ramallah to meet with Palestinian officials and former detainees regarding allegations of sexual violence by Israeli security forces and settlers. She said officials and four former detainees described threats of rape and other dehumanizing behavior toward Palestinian detainees, including forced nudity and invasive body searches.

Israeli officials say they are investigating allegations of misconduct against Palestinians by Israeli security forces and settlers.

IDF-released bodycam video from Hamas from Oct. 7.IDF
As part of their work, Patten said, her team reviewed more than 5,000 photographs and about 50 hours of video related to the Oct. 7 attack.

In early December, NBC News reported that evidence, primarily from the Israel Defense Forces and Israeli officials, suggested that dozens of Israeli women were raped, sexually abused or mutilated during the Oct. 7 attack.

After the release of the U.N. report Monday, Israeli officials shared two dozen images and videos with NBC News that they said they had provided to the U.N. team. Some of the photos had been shared with NBC News previously. Some had not.

The photos and videos showed female bodies stripped of clothing, some with their hands tied behind their backs. Some showed what appeared to be dried blood in dead women’s genital areas.

Israeli officials said they told U.N. investigators that they believe that one photo shows that multiple nails were pushed inside a woman’s lower abdomen and genital area. Israeli officials said they believe another photo shows that a knife had been inserted in a woman’s vagina.

Patten said her forensics team could not verify that an object had been inserted into a body based on the photos, which Israeli first responders took as part of their efforts to try to identify bodies.

NBC News was also shown the photos but could not independently confirm that nails or a knife had been inserted in the women’s bodies based solely on the images.

In the chaotic aftermath of the attack, Israeli reservists, volunteer first responders and morgue workers did not perform autopsies or use rape kits. They initially feared that Hamas fighters remained inside Israel. They were overwhelmed by the number of dead.

In some cases, the identification of bodies, particularly badly burned ones, took weeks or months. In addition, many families, after they received the bodies, tried to follow the Jewish tradition of burying the dead within 24 hours.

Patten said the lack of forensic evidence collection posed a challenge to her team. Potential witnesses also feared social stigmatization.

The trip was not investigative in nature; instead, it was to gather, analyze and verify information for potential inclusion in the annual U.N. report on conflict-related sexual violence, she said.

Israeli officials invited Patten on Nov. 8, one month after the attack. She said she agreed to conduct the mission if she would be able to work freely and independently from Israeli authorities and meet with Palestinians in the West Bank. Given the ongoing military operations in Gaza, she did not attempt to enter the enclave, but she noted that other U.N. entities are operating there, including those that monitor conflict-related sexual violence.

After they arrived in Israel on Jan. 29, Patten and her team of experts spent 17 days meeting with representatives of 33 Israeli institutions and organizations. They also visited four locations where sexual violence reportedly occurred Oct. 7.


The U.N team conducted 34 confidential interviews, some of them with witnesses of the Oct. 7 attack, first responders and two released hostages, according to the report.

Patten said her team did not interview any survivors of sexual violence. Israeli officials and relatives of the survivors say they are still receiving specialized trauma treatment.

Patten and one of her team leaders, Chloe Marnay-Baszanger, spoke to reporters at the U.N. following the release of the report Monday afternoon.

Asked by a reporter whether she was able to investigate freely, she said Israeli officials complied with her request to place no limits on her work.

“I was not chaperoned,” she said

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigati...ng-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789

Gang rapes, raping corpses. But it must be bull *smile*, eye witnesses don’t count. I hope they find more Hamas body cams and play them on prime time nes. Even then *smile* wits would say they were doctored

Still ongoing with the captured hostages
 
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A UN team says there is "convincing information" that hostages held in Gaza have been subjected to sexual violence including rape and sexualised torture.

There were grounds to suspect the abuse was still ongoing, the UN said.

The UN team also found "reasonable grounds to believe" sexual violence, including gang rape, took place when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October.

Israel's foreign ministry said it welcomed the "definitive recognition that Hamas committed sexual crimes".

The UN Security Council should now designate Hamas as a terrorist organisation and impose international sanctions on it, spokesman Lior Haiat said.


Hamas rejected the UN report as "baseless and only aimed at demonising the Palestinian resistance".

The group denies its gunmen sexually assaulted women during the attacks or mistreated female hostages they took to Gaza.

Warning: Contains graphic descriptions of rape and sexual violence

Pramila Patten, the UN's Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, said her team had "found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualised torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" had been committed against hostages.

There were "reasonable grounds" to believe such violence could be "ongoing against those still held in captivity", she told reporters.


Hamas gunmen infiltrated southern Israel on 7 October - killing about 1,200 people and taking 253 others hostage.

The UN report said "the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks".

These happened in at least three locations - the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re'im, it added.

Reports of sexual violence carried out by Hamas - which is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the UK and others - began to emerge soon after 7 October and have accumulated steadily ever since.

A UN team says there is "convincing information" that hostages held in Gaza have been subjected to sexual violence including rape and sexualised torture.

There were grounds to suspect the abuse was still ongoing, the UN said.

The UN team also found "reasonable grounds to believe" sexual violence, including gang rape, took place when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October.

Israel's foreign ministry said it welcomed the "definitive recognition that Hamas committed sexual crimes".

The UN Security Council should now designate Hamas as a terrorist organisation and impose international sanctions on it, spokesman Lior Haiat said.


Hamas rejected the UN report as "baseless and only aimed at demonising the Palestinian resistance".

The group denies its gunmen sexually assaulted women during the attacks or mistreated female hostages they took to Gaza.

Warning: Contains graphic descriptions of rape and sexual violence

Pramila Patten, the UN's Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, said her team had "found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualised torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" had been committed against hostages.

There were "reasonable grounds" to believe such violence could be "ongoing against those still held in captivity", she told reporters.


Hamas gunmen infiltrated southern Israel on 7 October - killing about 1,200 people and taking 253 others hostage.

The UN report said "the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks".

These happened in at least three locations - the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re'im, it added.

Reports of sexual violence carried out by Hamas - which is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the UK and others - began to emerge soon after 7 October and have accumulated steadily ever since.

The BBC has also seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women

 
Other terror grouped take note

As long as only a few women and girls were raped at a time.
As long as the babies and children they slaughtered weren’t beheaded but we’re just slaughtered in an ordinary way ie shot, stabbed, clubbed, head smashed against the ground or bombed.
As long as the children they slaughtered were shot, stabbed, clubbed or blown up and not burnt in ovens.

Make sure you don’t take a video of anything, leave no eye witnesses or other evidence…. Oh what Hamas terrorist did, oh the silly billys.
But just deny it and the *smile* dickheads in the west will believe anything we tell them.
Just say Israel, the State did it. Everyone will believe that.
They’re such a mob of *smile* dills. We can kill, slaughter, rape, burn, behead, bomb, stab, any fantasy you like.
Then ring your mum and dad and tell them how well you did today murdering every Jew ( just make out they’re all Jews) of any age and sex.
Sex! Yes have at it lads. Anything and everything goes. Dead or alive, young or old, male or female. Mohammed, you’ve got the goat?!

We’ll tell them it’s not personal. It’s only about the land. Yeah…stupid is, as stupid does. They’ll believe anything, we have a great PR ensemble to roll out.

Death to the Jews.
From the river to the sea.
Gays for Palestine.
Death to America ( wait we’ll get no more money then) Severe injury to America
GAGF
 
Of course Hamas does not talk about death to Greeks or Italians, they have not occupied Palestinian lands and did not throw the Palestinians off their country and turn them into refugees, Israel did that. What a ridiculous statement, you are deliberately misinterpreting what Richard Sanders said.

But what would happen if the Palestinians tried to air their grievances in a peaceful way?

Well, let's see what happened when they did:

In the 2018 Great March of Return, Gazans, in their tens of thousands, walked peacefully up to the barrier with Israel to demand a lifting of the brutal, suffocating siege imposed by Israel on Gaza and the right of return to the lands and homes that had been stolen from them by the Israelis.


“The Palestinians felt deserted and they needed to remind the world they were still there. They were still hoping to return to their homes,” says Tamimi.


Israeli forces lined up against the mums, dads, sisters, brothers, grandparents who marched, sang, waved banners, had picnics, and approached the security fence. Hundreds of people were gunned down, dozens of children killed, and thousands maimed for life.

The world's response to Palestinians being gunned down at a peaceful protest was to look away.

Do you wonder why they gave up on non-violent responses to the occupation?

Nice links above, pity they contain a lot of supposition and little or no evidence. Statements like "reasonable grounds to believe" are revealing, they point to a lack of evidence. We know the stories of babies being beheaded were lies, we know the stories of kids being burned alive were lies. Israel shreds its own credibility with this sort of behaviour, but, it has got away with lying for so long it thinks it is immune to being found out.

The mistrust of Western governments and mainstream media is just reinforced by the uncritical repeating of the lies.

DS
 
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Of course Hamas does not talk about death to Greeks or Italians, they have not occupied Palestinian lands and did not throw the Palestinians off their country and turn them into refugees, Israel did that. What a ridiculous statement, you are deliberately misinterpreting what Richard Sanders said.
Who are you talking to?
If it’s me I didn’t bring up Greeks and Italians. You’ve missed a bit of the convo. That’s what happens when you pick and choose what you read. It was Sintiger who referenced Greeks and Italians. So make sure you let him know what a ridiculous statement it is.
The same as I did. I’m glad in this instance you agree with me.
But what would happen if the Palestinians tried to air their grievances in a peaceful way
Nobody knows
Well, let's see what happened when they did:



The world's response to Palestinians being gunned down at a peaceful protest was to look away.
We can all comb through the years and find instances when the other side killed innocent civilians can’t we. Is this the only time innocent civilians were killed on either side. What are you trying to prove?
Do you wonder why they gave up on non-violent responses to the occupation?
One instance. How many times have they used violence over the past 75 years?
So you believe they had every right to do what they did. No doubt you can justify what they did
Nice links above, pity they contain a lot of supposition and little or no evidence. Statements like "reasonable grounds to believe" are revealing, they point to a lack of evidence.
oh the usual disclaimer. Yeah Hamas didn’t do an6thing. Even though evidence was provided to many media outlets that wrote about it.
The mighty UN even corroborated it.
Lack of evidence, What *smile* drugs are you blipokes on? Obfuscate by posting evidence? about what happened in years gone by to try to justify your terrorist mates atrocities.
“Reasonable grounds to believe” are revealing.
You’d have to be the dumbest idiot in class to think that means a lack of evidence.
As I said earlier if *smile* wits don’t see a video it mustn’t have happened.
We know the stories of babies being beheaded were lies, we know the stories of kids being burned alive were lies. Israel shreds its own credibility with this sort of behaviour, but, it has got away with lying for so long it thinks it is immune to being found out.
The story about 40 burned babies was discredited very early in the piece.
The rest were factual.
Yeah yeah, nobody bears the truth except for Hamas and the terror organisations. They’re just honest folk trying to make a living
The mistrust of Western governments and mainstream media is just reinforced by the uncritical repeating of the lies.
Mistrust by whom?



Good for you.
Its a pity none of you blokes actually come out and say what you feel and be honest about it.
To me, it’s becoming obvious by the change of language now being used that you and a few pro Palestinian supporters justify what Hamas did on oct 7. You’ve all never had to guts to say it, just little insinuations here and there. Decry and go into some fake outrage when you’re accused of being anti Jew or racists.

But gutless is just that. No strength of your convictions. Have to hunt the outlier poster like a little posse of lurking likers.
What a pathetic little bunch of sympathisers . Can’t even be honest with yourselves let alone others.

Come on say it, you know you want to…
You can even sing it to the tune of The River of Dreams by Billy Joel (the Jew)
Death to all Jews. From the river to the sea. Death to Israel. Queers for Palestine. Long live Hamas
 
So now we have a few pro Palestinian sympathisers changing their rhetoric quite dramatically.
Its no longer just about “Stolen land”

But now it’s really about Jewish aggression. Disguised as the state of Israel.
Jewish aggression in the past, in the present and no doubt..in the future.
Palestinians, and any terror groups like Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah, Houthis and even states like Iran are justified in any action the6 commit on the State of Israel. More so, it’s Jewish people.

Murderwont be tolerated..or you can use this as a disclaimer first up. Then blame the Israeli Jews for every problem that exists in the Middle East . Or the world if you want to get serious.
You can find a video somewhere of some *smile* wit learned person somewhere on YouTube to back even the most ridiculous claim.

Just remember to keep saying nothing started on Oct 7. Nothing really happened anyway. It was only Jews.
But it was before that and the Israeli Jews started everything a hundred years ago.
So we’re entitled to $billions free food, building material, well everything. So we can sit around making rockets to fire over the fence at those bloody Jews. We’ve just got to wait until our workers come back from earning a few pounds form the Jews
Death to the Jews. From the river to the sea. Down with Israel. Poo dogs.

What a cracking crew we have here.
 
No just read Hamas “Constitution” does it mention “death to all Greeks or Italians”?

You referenced Greek and Italians, see above.

The UN wanted to go in and investigate what happened, the Israeli government denied them entry. Hence the report from the UN team was, in their words, not investigative, because they were denied the ability to investigate by the Israeli government.

The Israeli government has peddled many lies about what happened - the beheading of babies, did not happen; the Times ran a big story on an Israeli woman allegedly raped at the music festival, which was debunked by the woman's own family. They do themselves no favours making up lies. There are credible reports of sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas in the attack, but there is not evidence of systematic sexual violence which the Israelis claim.

I'll ask a question no-one wants to tackle: what should the Palestinians do to further their cause of self-determination? Clearly protests just mean they get shot by the IDF, we've seen this and we have seen the world ignore it.

You always need to look at what motivates people to do what they do, I find it unsurprising that Hamas did what they did. It does not excuse their actions but if you actually want to prevent this sort of thing happening again then you need to look at what motivated Hamas to attack Israel on October 7. I know you will paint this as justifying it, but that will either be a deliberate misinterpretation or you just can't see the difference between seeking an explanation for an action and justifying the action.

You can call it Jewish aggression, I call it Israeli government violence in support of occupation. There is a difference, one I can understand and you clearly cannot.

DS
 
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No just read Hamas “Constitution” does it mention “death to all Greeks or Italians”?
*smile* me, you blokes are becoming a joke with all the excuses you’re now trotting out to be seen as non racists.
To bastardise a saying
”The lady doth protest too much, I think”

Oh good old K3 still trawling for a pro Palestinian, anti Israeli October 7 video clip. Bravo. This director’s opinion and this clip have been put to rest by the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If people are interested in the truth rather than trying to find bits and pieces to support their own pov. As dumb as it is.

Oh the old Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder. The usual acknowledgement before the next discourse.



Hamas are only naughty boys who got a little carried away murdering 1200 and kidnapping 240 more. They’re just misunderstood

But “I haven’t seen the evidence with my own eyes of beheadings of babies, mass rape” blah blah blah so it simply doesn’t exist.
What do you want a videos of women being raped? Beheaded babies, why only babies? burnt babies in ovens? Eye witness accounts not good enough for you?
Just how many make an “mass rape” ? 3, , 5, 10, 20, 50.

What very poor post. I expected better, but maybe the real person and beliefs are being exposed

Obviously it isn’t just about a territorial land dispute. It may have been once, but you sure put that to rest.

I might as well just say
Well I haven't seen any evidence of 30,000 dead bodies in Gaza on the news, so obviously it simply hasn’t happened Only a few. So the death toll has been highly exaggerated
I haven’t seen any evidence of Palestinian land titles in the WB where apartments are being built. So obviously that land is vacant and no one owns it.
I haven't seen any evidence of terrorists or murderers in Israeli jails so obviously there are none
I haven’t seen any evidence of any innocent man, woman or child being held by Israeli authorities . So there are none
Hamas is not the Palestinians, you know that.
Just as the state of Israel is not the Jewish people
Just stop it
You always need to look at what motivates people to do what they do, I find it unsurprising that Hamas did what they did. It does not excuse their actions but if you actually want to prevent this sort of thing happening again then you need to look at what motivated Hamas to attack Israel on October 7. I know you will paint this as justifying it, but that will either be a deliberate misinterpretation or you just can't see the difference between seeking an explanation for an action and justifying the action.

You can call it Jewish aggression, I call it Israeli government violence in support of occupation. There is a difference, one I can understand and you clearly cannot.

DS
you know Willo doesn’t do nuance
 
So now we have a few pro Palestinian sympathisers changing their rhetoric quite dramatically.
Its no longer just about “Stolen land”

But now it’s really about Jewish aggression. Disguised as the state of Israel.
Jewish aggression in the past, in the present and no doubt..in the future.
Palestinians, and any terror groups like Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah, Houthis and even states like Iran are justified in any action the6 commit on the State of Israel. More so, it’s Jewish people.

Murderwont be tolerated..or you can use this as a disclaimer first up. Then blame the Israeli Jews for every problem that exists in the Middle East . Or the world if you want to get serious.
You can find a video somewhere of some *smile* wit learned person somewhere on YouTube to back even the most ridiculous claim.

Just remember to keep saying nothing started on Oct 7. Nothing really happened anyway. It was only Jews.
But it was before that and the Israeli Jews started everything a hundred years ago.
So we’re entitled to $billions free food, building material, well everything. So we can sit around making rockets to fire over the fence at those bloody Jews. We’ve just got to wait until our workers come back from earning a few pounds form the Jews
Death to the Jews. From the river to the sea. Down with Israel. Poo dogs.

What a cracking crew we have here.
It’s about stolen land but how do you think the land was stolen? Please Mr Palestinian can I have your land ?

It’s about the 400 Palestinians murdered in the West Bank by settlers in the last 6 months and the thousands before them. The apartheid state they have created, the killing of 14,000 children and so much more.

Of course it is about the land, Jews lived very peacefully side by side with Palestinians before 1948. The aggression is how they have taken the land.

Israeli politicians have openly said they want to wipe out the Palestinians. One called them the cockroaches of the Middle East ( and you know what we do to cockroaches)

What a cracking crew we have there and those who support them.

There is one fundamental truth in this which is that this dispute and the subsequent violence happened because of land, it has always been about Palestinian rights to their own land and their own sovereignty. People can argue until they are blue in the face that it is religious, that is it because they are Jewish but that is wrong and has always been wrong.
 
You referenced Greek and Italians, see above.
See below. Sintiger was the one who first brought Greeks and Italians up. That’s why I refuted his claim
“ The Palestinians didn’t pick their occupier who’s citizens happen to be Jewish”
“ that doesn’t make them anti-Semitic”
are we really going to say that if their occupiers were Greeks or Italians they wouldn’t be fighting back, of course we can’t”

Thanks for posting K3. What so many have said , Hamas committed atrocities and mass murder, what they did cannot be supported. However the evidence of beheading of babies, mass rape, burning alive of children in ovens etc simply does not exist.
The UN wanted to go in and investigate what happened, the Israeli government denied them entry. Hence the report from the UN team was, in their words, not investigative, because they were denied the ability to investigate by the Israeli government.
Obviously you didn’t read any of the articles. The UN did send a team in and did investigate.do your research.
The Israeli government has peddled many lies about what happened - the beheading of babies, did not happen; the Times ran a big story on an Israeli woman allegedly raped at the music festival, which was debunked by the woman's own family. They do themselves no favours making up lies. There are credible reports of sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas in the attack, but there is not evidence of systematic sexual violence which the Israelis claim.
It wasn’t the government who peddled the story of beheading babies. It was started as a rumour then grew legs in the media. Once again, do some research.
And there is plenty of evidence that it did. Eye witness accounts to start with. Dead bodies showing evidence of rape.
You’ve got to be the village idiot to try to underplay what happened. Or your sympathies are on show for all to see.
I'll ask a question no-one wants to tackle: what should the Palestinians do to further their cause of self-determination? Clearly protests just mean they get shot by the IDF, we've seen this and we have seen the world ignore it.
By not commiting atrocities Suicide bombers, firing rockets onto innocent civilians. You know all the innocent stuff people do. I’ve answered this several times. Engage those countries signing the Abraham Accords to act as their representatives
You always need to look at what motivates people to do what they do, I find it unsurprising that Hamas did what they did. It does not excuse their actions but if you actually want to prevent this sort of thing happening again then you need to look at what motivated Hamas to attack Israel on October 7. I know you will paint this as justifying it, but that will either be a deliberate misinterpretation or you just can't see the difference between seeking an explanation for an action and justifying the action.
Already answered several times. Committing extreme violence on innocent civilians (on either side) does nothing to advance any reasonable solution.Explaining and justifying are the same thing. Explaining it is giving voice to why it happened. Justifying it is using the explanation as an excuse to do so. They go hand in hand.
There is no explanation worthy of justifying any type of atrocity. None.
You can call it Jewish aggression, I call it Israeli government violence in support of occupation. There is a difference, one I can understand and you clearly cannot.
Oh of course. Let’s just play the condescending righteous obnoxious card.
Is the Israeli government a reflection of its people?
Isn’t the Knesset an elected voice and representation of the Israeli people?
Doesnt the government carry out the wishes of the people they serve?

Maybe you’ve missed something.
 
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Hamas is not the Palestinians, you know that.
Just as the state of Israel is not the Jewish people
Just stop it
Ibe never said they were “the”. But they represent the Palestinians in Gaza. They’re the ruling party aren’t they?
The state of Israel in of the Jewish people.
Don't obfuscate the obvious.
you know Willo doesn’t do nuance
I don’t need to. Just speak honestly and openly. Others might see the need when they’re trying to be disingenuous
 
It’s about stolen land but how do you think the land was stolen? Please Mr Palestinian can I have your land ?
Yep your rhetoric and agreeing with others has shown quite a shift from “stolen land” to something else now.
Acting as it you haven’t proves that point extremely well.
It’s about the 400 Palestinians murdered in the West Bank by settlers in the last 6 months and the thousands before them. The apartheid state they have created, the killing of 14,000 children and so much more.
Well like you I’ll use the pithy excuse of saying I haven’t seen any evidence of that so it hasn’t happened.
Of course it is about the land, Jews lived very peacefully side by side with Palestinians before 1948. The aggression is how they have taken the land.
Ho hum. It doesn’t excuse committing atrocities.
Israeli politicians have openly said they want to wipe out the Palestinians. One called them the cockroaches of the Middle East ( and you know what we do to cockroaches)
So are the politicians the state of Israel?
Something they’ve all said is it ? That justifies all the violence that happens against Israelis then.

They’d must have the same aim as Hamas. Wipe out the opposite people. Good, that would save $billions and stop the victims complaining and all the violent protests. Think of all the martyrs. They love others becoming martyrs, they can try it out for themselves. There is plenty of land in paradise, they can meet Mohammad. That would make the Middle East a peaceful area
What a cracking crew we have there and those who support them.

There is one fundamental truth in this which is that this dispute and the subsequent violence happened because of land, it has always been about Palestinian rights to their own land and their own sovereignty. People can argue until they are blue in the face that it is religious, that is it because they are Jewish but that is wrong and has always been wrong.
Yeah it’s all about the land. Anything Hamas or any Palestinian does any bombing, rockets or suicide vests, shooting, stabbing or whatever is justified because they lost their land.

It’s just a coincidence that the land thieves were Jewish. The people living on that land are Jewish. The people targeted by the Palestinian terror groups are Jewish. The people targeted are Jewish. the People slaughtered are Jewish. The people kidnapped are Jewish.
Their slogans call for “death to the Jews”. Htheir constitution specifically says “ death to all Jews”
I wonder what they mean by that?

Just one big coincidence
 
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